Topic: Rates go up at every renewal

[Slow_lane]

Sooooooo frustrating. I live in Quebec and I have been insured with Intact for about 7 years now (home and auto). Happy with the company but every single time my policies come up for renewal the rates are bumped up quite a bit.

So I make the time consuming effort of calling another company to get a quote. Invariably the company I call wants to get my business and gives me a rate better than Intact. I then call intact and inform them and only then will they lower rates to match. Intact say that I am getting "New Customer Rates" which are better.

Why the hell don't they treat their existing / loyal customers better and give them the best rates?!!!

It seems that insurance companies offer great rates to get you on board and then try and get you at next renewal. I find it so frustrating. I have no desire to change insurance companies so in a sense I am just wasting the other company's time by getting a quote to use as leverage. I am so fed up having to do this. I wish they would offer me the best rate available right from the get go.

Does everyone experience this or is there a company out there that does things differently.

[dougjp]

I've never experienced this with The Personal Insurance, except that on the house insurance side it does go up slightly every year. Their explanation is repairs or rebuilds cost more, more storm damage etc.

I can't stand that style of business, and go out of my way to not deal with Companies doing that, but its common. Eg; Sirius XM, banks like Tangerine offering better temporary rates to new customers etc.

If I was you, having experienced this repeatedly, I'd switch. Just because they play games. Hope others here chime in with more names, especially those in your area.

[RunsinLight]

I find you have to switch insurance companies every 5 years or so in order to bump your rates back down. For me it's my house\condo insurance that seems to keep going up. While getting a quota one time I asked the agent this very question and he told me the more customers an insurance company has in your area the higher their rates will be.

[Weels]

I find you have to switch insurance companies every 5 years or so in order to bump your rates back down. For me it's my house\condo insurance that seems to keep going up. While getting a quota one time I asked the agent this very question and he told me the more customers an insurance company has in your area the higher their rates will be.

LOL. That's a good one.

Offering better rates to snag new clients is S.O.P. for pretty much all service companies... phone/cable/internet, home security, etc...

[Noto]

As someone who worked in the insurance industry, and more particularly, in claims, I would pay more to be insured by a company that doesn't take ridiculous positions on payout.  From my experience, there is one insurer that is "more fair" than the rest.  On that basis, I am unwilling to shop around even if it would save me $.

Said another way, an insurer that builds up a whole "trial lawyers" firm is one that intends very much to take your denied claim (of which, assume most will be) all the way to litigation with zero likelihood for settlement (ok, maybe $0.05 on the $1.00 of what's properly owed).

I'm not stating which insurers do what, but the whole "you get what you pay for" is certainly a thing.  What's the point in having insurance if it's denied when you need it?

[aquadorhj]

I'm not stating which insurers do what, but the whole "you get what you pay for" is certainly a thing.  What's the point in having insurance if it's denied when you need it?

comon, no-san.  just name 2 best ones in your experience.  it's not slander .    think of it as another public service that you provide to fellow forum members.

[tortoise]

That's an excellent point. No such thing as a free lunch.

FWIW, I'm with Wawanessa and they've been excellent when we've needed them. 

[Slow_lane]

As someone who worked in the insurance industry, and more particularly, in claims, I would pay more to be insured by a company that doesn't take ridiculous positions on payout.  From my experience, there is one insurer that is "more fair" than the rest.  On that basis, I am unwilling to shop around even if it would save me $.

Said another way, an insurer that builds up a whole "trial lawyers" firm is one that intends very much to take your denied claim (of which, assume most will be) all the way to litigation with zero likelihood for settlement (ok, maybe $0.05 on the $1.00 of what's properly owed).

I'm not stating which insurers do what, but the whole "you get what you pay for" is certainly a thing.  What's the point in having insurance if it's denied when you need it?

Yes they are a good company when it comes to claims and customer service. But I do not expect to hosed every time my policy comes up for renewal. As soon as I come back with a better rate from competitor they can magically lower their rates.

All I am asking is just give me the best rate from the start and stop making me jump through hoops and waste people's time to get them. Last policy renewal on cars they bumped up rates again. After that I got a 20% reduction in rates after getting a quote from other company. 20 friggin percent!!!!


If they make me call other companies this year I will make a point of asking companies of their pricing policies for renewing customers. If I can find one that will assure me every effort to get best price each time I may switch.

[dougjp]

I'm not stating which insurers do what, but the whole "you get what you pay for" is certainly a thing.  What's the point in having insurance if it's denied when you need it?

comon, no-san.  just name 2 best ones in your experience.  it's not slander .    think of it as another public service that you provide to fellow forum members.

He he, +1. Just make a separate post saying who you've had experience with and like, the others won't litigate against you that way! 

[ArticSteve]

It's impossible to access the strength of one's policy until a claim is submitted.  One can be underwritten by the greatest insurance company of all time, but if they are having a bad year, watch out!  Just know that you'll be getting it up the kapustra first.

[Noto]

It's impossible to access the strength of one's policy until a claim is submitted.  One can be underwritten by the greatest insurance company of all time, but if they are having a bad year, watch out!

My concern is those insurers who are making internal policies to deny claims en masse for reasons that the Court of Appeal ends up slapping a punitive award against.   

Those aren't "having a bad year" insurers...and those insurers don't advise you of such internal policies at the time of taking your premiums (or any time thereafter).

[ArticSteve]

My concern is those insurers who are making internal policies to deny claims en masse

That's too broad of a statement.  You need to be more specific.  Name one internal policy that would deny a claim across the board that's not reasonably accepted now.


There are many grey areas in insurance claims.  In good times they are more lenient in their interpretations of what's allowable and what's the actual cost of the loss.  It's so variable. 


 

[johngenx]

We get excellent insurance rates through our provincial teacher's group.  But, the group has changed insurance providers a couple of times since we've been with them.  Not to lower our rates, but to increase service.  Faster claims, less hassle, better coverage, and so on.  I'm happy with that - 'cause if I do have a claim, I want it completed fairly, quickly, and without any hassle.

Right now Unifund is the provider of coverage for the teachers and reports are that they are great to work with in terms of claims.

[EV-Light]

It's impossible to access the strength of one's policy until a claim is submitted.  One can be underwritten by the greatest insurance company of all time, but if they are having a bad year, watch out!

My concern is those insurers who are making internal policies to deny claims en masse for reasons that the Court of Appeal ends up slapping a punitive award against.   

Those aren't "having a bad year" insurers...and those insurers don't advise you of such internal policies at the time of taking your premiums (or any time thereafter).

Name a few of the best ones please!


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[BWII]

If you have a legitimate claim I don't see how any insurance company could deny paying.  Take it to court, take it to arbitration...good luck finding a judge that will side with an insurance company even if by rights they have every right to deny a claim (trust me, that does happen...just because you bought insurance does not mean you're covered for everything, but that doesn't mean a judge will not find in your favour anyway). Maybe your broker sucks. Your best broker is the one who's a pain in an underwriters a$$. To a point anyway.  Too much pain...favours go that way...file eff.you.

One of the reasons you'll see an increase in premiums, and I imagine this is fairly standard and across the board Canada-wide, is there is an inflation factor applied to your house, condo or contents (tenants policy) every renewal.  Some it's 3%, others might be as high as 5%...more, less, but likely an increase due to higher building costs or keeping up with your new wealth and influx of 'things'.  So you're not going to pay the same premium for a $400,000 as you will for a $412,000 one next year. Some brokers will redo the dwelling evaluator (they have a program or three for that) that's based off of Cdn averages for your area.  And sometimes those come in lower than the year before.  I know one company uses pretty solid source material to get their data. Would be a safe bet they all use something to get their data.

You want to blame anyone for high insurance costs?  Try getting after contractors...repair shops.  I'll give 2 quick examples.
1. Building had a few panels of metal come off in a recent wind storm.  Quote to repair/replace those 6 panels?  $8000.  WTF!? Adjuster calls around, looking for price of new build, full replacement, same size, different builder.  $8000. How the hell?
2. Machinery claim...$7000 charge just to bring it into the shop, swap a few hydraulic hoses, to determine what was damaged.  And that wasn't even to fix it.  That was just to find out what was wrong.  Week later...$1500 bill...to remove the tractor from the shop floor.  Serious.  They wanted more.  To put it back outside. 

They see claim, rates double, triple...multiply by numbers with a little 2 in the top right corner.

Insurance is highly regulated in Canada...but obviously unscrupulous contractors/repair shops...mmm...not so much.  It's the American model of free market and low supply. Only 2 places that fix machinery in the area (if you're lucky - sometimes there isn't even 1), then you pay what they charge. And that in the end hurts you as much as it does everyone else. Unless things are vastly different in the COTU, I don't think insurance co.s are actually out to screw anyone over...though I can't say I doubt some may try.  Pretty sure auto insurance plays by a different set of rules. Pretty sure they're out to screw everyone over.

[johngenx]

I'm not sure if they still do, but body shops made no bones about having two price scales - one for insurance companies.  I always thought this highly unethical.

[rrocket]

always thought this highly unethical.

I think insurance companies are highly unethical.

What comes around goes around....

[BWII]

Same goes for dentists.  Before my time here...there was a girl who went to the dentist, no coverage.  Let's say it was $175.  They found out later she had full coverage, gasp! You should have told us!!  So...new bill...$300.  Magically it almost doubled in price.

[BWII]

always thought this highly unethical.

I think insurance companies are highly unethical.

What comes around goes around....

Same can be said for some people.  Got another good one, I'll keep it short. Tractor sank in a pond. Made in China. Worthless old POS tractor.  Sent out to get repaired, hood not available anymore. New hood had a fuel door for the filler neck where the old one didn't.  Guy was so pissedoff it wasn't exactly what he wanted or had, made them send it back to get it fiberglassed shut and repainted.  Only now the hood also didn't open up the same exact way (new hinge design) so he couldn't get it open to fill his gas!  Send it back!  And it went on and on...the dealer who did the repairs wanted nothing to do with him. They went above and beyond, repaired stuff that wasn't part of the claim just to shut him up.  He won't be welcome back anytime soon.  Someday he'll get his comeuppance too.

[Noto]

Name one internal policy that would deny a claim across the board that's not reasonably accepted now.

I've said full well that I'm not naming any specific insurers.  Giving up specifics of INTERNAL policies? 

If you have a legitimate claim I don't see how any insurance company could deny paying.  Take it to court, take it to arbitration...good luck finding a judge that will side with an insurance company even if by rights they have every right to deny a claim (trust me, that does happen...just because you bought insurance does not mean you're covered for everything, but that doesn't mean a judge will not find in your favour anyway).

You realize that lots and lots of lawyers in insurance litigation have jobs, right?

How do you determine what is a "legitimate" claim?  You mean the guy who was changing a flat tire in a mall parking lot claiming against his own insurer in tort pursuant to the unidentified driver provision, only to admit at his examination for discovery that he never saw another car hit his, had no damage to his car, didn't report it to police, didn't report it to the mall (to get security footage), and then didn't initiate the claim until the day before the 2 year limitation period expired, and then served it the day before the time to do so expired (179 days after initiating the claim) - making it impossible to get the said security footage or any other corroborating evidence?  And then on discovery, half his answers were, "that was three years ago, I don't remember!"

He thought his claim was "legitimate".  My summary judgment motion, from which I got my client $8,000 in costs, payable out of the insured's pocket, said otherwise.  He definitely had a solid claim for solicitor's negligence to get those costs back, but no claim against his insurer for anything in tort (accident benefits is another story).

I have a bunch of stories like that, both from plaintiff and defence sides.  I also have a number of claims defending property insurance claims.

Do insurers pay out on some "legitimate" claims?  For sure - where the evidence is clear and unambiguous.  Even still, do some insurers deny payout on "legitimate" claims?  Absolutely - if they know it'll cost them a whole lot, they'll deny it entirely in hopes that the unsophisticated person will just "go away", or fight it for years so they can settle out at 50c/dollar.

To your point about the cost of repairs/medical bills/whatever being an issue, absolutely - especially in the motor vehicle context - massage therapists charging $120/hour?  Occupational therapists charging $80/hr, plus mileage, plus other expenses (like meals?!)?

Do you know how settlement of property damage is determined (assuming no "replacement value" coverage)?  They use Autotrader or kijiji to find used car ads that show "similar" models.  Yes, KIJIJI, because Autotrader prices are higher.

The entire insurance industry is flawed - be happy that your premiums only go up by 20% all things considered.