Topic: Best look at the upcoming G70 so far.

[rrocket]

You guys really think I am a tool? 

100%.   

I was just trying to be passionate in my arguments. Damn.

Consider me STFU'd then gents.

FFS, you dingus.  Did you not see the 2 emojis laughing their asses off.

It was a joke.

SHEESH (didn't think I'd have to point it out)!!

Stop being a tool about my tool jokes!!   

[OliverD]

I think everyone would be pretty happy if Genesis had decided to build a V6 with the stick. Hopefully we can agree on that.

The assertion that this is a mistake on the other hand doesn't really hold a lot of water IMO. The only sedans with more than four cylinders that still offer a manual in this country are the 340i, M3, and ATS-V. The first two may very well be automatic only after this model year. I also wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a second-gen ATS-V with a stick.

While it may seem logical to offer the manual with the higher performing model, the fact is that outside of North America people overwhelmingly prefer automatics in high-performance cars. It's why the last two generations of M5 and M6 were offered only with a manual in the U.S. and Canada. Same thing for the B8.5 Audi S4 and S5 – both models dropped their manual option in Europe when they were updated. Similarly, the ATS (V excepted), the previous C-class, and the previous Lexus IS only offered manuals in their base models. There must be some logic in this decision making.

As a diehard manual fan – I've only ever bought one automatic, and it was for my girlfriend – this all sucks. Like Vmango, I'd be all over an S5 Sportback with a stick. I'm positively salivating for a Giulia – even a four cylinder model – with a stick. The fact that the upcoming 3-series could very well be automatic only in our market absolutely kills me. The manual transmission is basically dead.

The fact that Genesis is giving us a rear-wheel drive sport sedan with a stick is in itself a minor miracle. I obviously understand the desire for the combination of V6 + manual. I share that desire. But to dismiss the 2.0T six-speed is a bit like looking a gift horse in the mouth. If you want a sports sedan with a high cylinder count and a stick it's not like there's a bunch of options to choose from. Just MHO. 

[BWII]

I get enjoyment out of driving a Sonic...I think that this might be even more fun, even if it's 'only' 250 HP.  I'd get to decide when to shift. 

Other than that, I just want more pictures...

[Jaeger]

I think everyone would be pretty happy if Genesis had decided to build a V6 with the stick. Hopefully we can agree on that.

The assertion that this is a mistake on the other hand doesn't really hold a lot of water IMO. The only sedans with more than four cylinders that still offer a manual in this country are the 340i, M3, and ATS-V. The first two may very well be automatic only after this model year. I also wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a second-gen ATS-V with a stick.

While it may seem logical to offer the manual with the higher performing model, the fact is that outside of North America people overwhelmingly prefer automatics in high-performance cars. It's why the last two generations of M5 and M6 were offered only with a manual in the U.S. and Canada. Same thing for the B8.5 Audi S4 and S5 – both models dropped their manual option in Europe when they were updated. Similarly, the ATS (V excepted), the previous C-class, and the previous Lexus IS only offered manuals in their base models. There must be some logic in this decision making.

As a diehard manual fan – I've only ever bought one automatic, and it was for my girlfriend – this all sucks. Like Vmango, I'd be all over an S5 Sportback with a stick. I'm positively salivating for a Giulia – even a four cylinder model – with a stick. The fact that the upcoming 3-series could very well be automatic only in our market absolutely kills me. The manual transmission is basically dead.

The fact that Genesis is giving us a rear-wheel drive sport sedan with a stick is in itself a minor miracle. I obviously understand the desire for the combination of V6 + manual. I share that desire. But to dismiss the 2.0T six-speed is a bit like looking a gift horse in the mouth. If you want a sports sedan with a high cylinder count and a stick it's not like there's a bunch of options to choose from. Just MHO. 

Spot on.  And again - I don't think there is any doubt that EVERYONE agrees it would be pretty sweet to have both models available with a stick.  The fact of this consensus is what wholly undermines the claim that 'a V6 stick would be nice' is what frames one side of the debate.

[Jaeger]

So we have four groups.

1. Genesis are idiots.
2. Wish they gave me a V6 manual.
3. Glad they gave me the 4 cyl manual.
4. Really makes no difference to me.

Of course some people are a little bit of 1 and 2.

Does that bring me up to date?

Sent from my SM-T230NU using Tapatalk

I'm 2 and 3.  Wish they gave me a V6 manual but fully understand the reasons why they have not.  And glad they gave me a manual sport model at all.

[rrocket]

  And glad they gave me a manual sport model at all.

Are you buying?

[Jaeger]

Jezus, is Genesis in a no win here or what?  Holey fack.

These guys have given us a great looking inside and out, honest to god sports sedan with three pedals... and it's mostly bitching.   
Me.. if given the choice between the 6 and 4 with the stick i'd go with the 4.  Lighter weight, better handling (i'm assuming because - hey - no one other than Patrick has driven the thing...)  and.... lower price.

6's don't particularly excite me.  They all sound the same.  Go listen to the video clip Jaeger posted of his Genesis - sounds exactly the same as my old Acura TL and Volvo S60.  The 2.0T in the Accord sounds bloody awesome.  It sure changed my mind that a turbo'd 4 can't sound great.

If Genesis had a V8 that they could stuff in the G70... then different story.  Manual that puppy or GTFO. 

I'd rock that car Patrick has right now... oh hell yes.

The 3.0 V6 in my old Accord, the 3.0 V6 in my old Maxima, the 3.5 V6 in my old Altima and the 3.8 V6 in my current Genesis all sound different from each other.  Best sounding was the Maxima.  Genesis is a solid second.  I don't think that the engines of a given number of cylinders all sound the same.  And that includes V8s.

Are you hearing the engine in the Accord 2.0 or is it "enhanced"?

Otherwise I'm with you on the rest.  One thing that can be said about the new Accord 2.0T is that it seriously hauls ass.  Particularly in a compact sport sedan, a turbo 4 is a creditable choice.  Particularly if they get everything else right.

[CanuckS2K]

To

I think everyone would be pretty happy if Genesis had decided to build a V6 with the stick. Hopefully we can agree on that.

The assertion that this is a mistake on the other hand doesn't really hold a lot of water IMO. The only sedans with more than four cylinders that still offer a manual in this country are the 340i, M3, and ATS-V. The first two may very well be automatic only after this model year. I also wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a second-gen ATS-V with a stick.

While it may seem logical to offer the manual with the higher performing model, the fact is that outside of North America people overwhelmingly prefer automatics in high-performance cars. It's why the last two generations of M5 and M6 were offered only with a manual in the U.S. and Canada. Same thing for the B8.5 Audi S4 and S5 – both models dropped their manual option in Europe when they were updated. Similarly, the ATS (V excepted), the previous C-class, and the previous Lexus IS only offered manuals in their base models. There must be some logic in this decision making.

As a diehard manual fan – I've only ever bought one automatic, and it was for my girlfriend – this all sucks. Like Vmango, I'd be all over an S5 Sportback with a stick. I'm positively salivating for a Giulia – even a four cylinder model – with a stick. The fact that the upcoming 3-series could very well be automatic only in our market absolutely kills me. The manual transmission is basically dead.

The fact that Genesis is giving us a rear-wheel drive sport sedan with a stick is in itself a minor miracle. I obviously understand the desire for the combination of V6 + manual. I share that desire. But to dismiss the 2.0T six-speed is a bit like looking a gift horse in the mouth. If you want a sports sedan with a high cylinder count and a stick it's not like there's a bunch of options to choose from. Just MHO. 

Well said, Oliver...... completely agree.   With every other car company doing the same thing, there is obviously a reason for it like you said.   But the forum experts here must know something more than all of these car companies I guess.

[rrocket]

  But the forum experts here must know something more than all of these car companies I guess.

Ah yes....this tired, stupid argument (again).  Because we're not auto execs, we can't critique decisions made by auto companies.  Love how that works!!

I suppose since I don't have a degree in art or music, I can't critique those and decide what sounds beautiful to my ears or appealing to me eyes.  And since I don't own a brewery, I shall be banned from deciding which type of beers I prefer over others.  I've not played professional sports, so I guess I can't call out my favorite team when they do something stupid.  I've never been a chef...so I better not say an f-ing word if a cut of steak I get comes out tough or dry.  And perhaps if someone doesn't have a teaching degree, they shouldn't whine about homework levels.  Same idea, I believe.

Yes, yes...I see how this all works.  Even though I work in the industry, I can't critique unless I'm a credential holding automotive CEO.

Got it...got it.   

[Jaeger]

To

I think everyone would be pretty happy if Genesis had decided to build a V6 with the stick. Hopefully we can agree on that.

The assertion that this is a mistake on the other hand doesn't really hold a lot of water IMO. The only sedans with more than four cylinders that still offer a manual in this country are the 340i, M3, and ATS-V. The first two may very well be automatic only after this model year. I also wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a second-gen ATS-V with a stick.

While it may seem logical to offer the manual with the higher performing model, the fact is that outside of North America people overwhelmingly prefer automatics in high-performance cars. It's why the last two generations of M5 and M6 were offered only with a manual in the U.S. and Canada. Same thing for the B8.5 Audi S4 and S5 – both models dropped their manual option in Europe when they were updated. Similarly, the ATS (V excepted), the previous C-class, and the previous Lexus IS only offered manuals in their base models. There must be some logic in this decision making.

As a diehard manual fan – I've only ever bought one automatic, and it was for my girlfriend – this all sucks. Like Vmango, I'd be all over an S5 Sportback with a stick. I'm positively salivating for a Giulia – even a four cylinder model – with a stick. The fact that the upcoming 3-series could very well be automatic only in our market absolutely kills me. The manual transmission is basically dead.

The fact that Genesis is giving us a rear-wheel drive sport sedan with a stick is in itself a minor miracle. I obviously understand the desire for the combination of V6 + manual. I share that desire. But to dismiss the 2.0T six-speed is a bit like looking a gift horse in the mouth. If you want a sports sedan with a high cylinder count and a stick it's not like there's a bunch of options to choose from. Just MHO. 

Well said, Oliver...... completely agree.   With every other car company doing the same thing, there is obviously a reason for it like you said.   But the forum experts here must know something more than all of these car companies I guess.

This.  Of course anyone can disagree with a product choice by a manufacturer.  But it is the assumption that the manufacturer is totally clueless because they haven't given the exact model and trim that a given forum member wants that borders on the comical.  Particularly when the forum member's claimed desire runs contrary to very obvious and wide-spread market trends.

[CanuckS2K]

Hey buddy, critique all you want, have at it.  But point me to your endless posts debating why the IS350 should of had a manual as well.

[rrocket]

Hey buddy, critique all you want, have at it.  But point me to your endless posts debating why the IS350 should of had a manual as well.

Would have been awesome if they did!!  But they, like Hyundai, dropped the ball IMO. 

Should Lexus have been congratulated for offering a manual in the IS250 "because hardly anyone else is"?  I guess.....but the car was "meh" instead of "awesome".  And I won't buy "meh" just because a car may have a stick...as much as I like rowing my own gears.  Go drive a manual IS250...then the IS350.  And tell me which one is better.  I already know the answer.

So I guess if you can deal with "meh" for the simple sake of having a manual....well....I guess you'll be happy with most any manual that gets put out and live in a state of perpetual automotive bliss.

And to the point of "auto execs must know best".  You really believe that??  I mean....Porsche says the Boxster is better with the 4 banger.  And we both know that's !!  However,  since you (like the rest of us) aren't an auto exec, I'll assume  you'll go along with what they say and your shiny red Boxster will be of the 4 banger type??  I can't wait for your review!

[CanuckS2K]

Hey buddy, critique all you want, have at it.  But point me to your endless posts debating why the IS350 should of had a manual as well.

Would have been awesome if they did!!  But they, like Hyundai, dropped the ball IMO. 

Should Lexus have been congratulated for offering a manual in the IS250 "because hardly anyone else is"?  I guess.....but the car was "meh" instead of "awesome".  And I won't buy "meh" just because a car may have a stick...as much as I like rowing my own gears.  Go drive a manual IS250...then the IS350.  And tell me which one is better.  I already know the answer.

So I guess if you can deal with "meh" for the simple sake of having a manual....well....I guess you'll be happy with most any manual that gets put out and live in a state of perpetual automotive bliss.

And to the point of "auto execs must know best".  You really believe that??  I mean....Porsche says the Boxster is better with the 4 banger.  And we both know that's !!  However,  since you (like the rest of us) aren't an auto exec, I'll assume  you'll go along with what they say and your shiny red Boxster will be of the 4 banger type??  I can't wait for your review!

Wow, really?  That's what you retort to?   

[rrocket]

Hey buddy, critique all you want, have at it.  But point me to your endless posts debating why the IS350 should of had a manual as well.

Would have been awesome if they did!!  But they, like Hyundai, dropped the ball IMO. 

Should Lexus have been congratulated for offering a manual in the IS250 "because hardly anyone else is"?  I guess.....but the car was "meh" instead of "awesome".  And I won't buy "meh" just because a car may have a stick...as much as I like rowing my own gears.  Go drive a manual IS250...then the IS350.  And tell me which one is better.  I already know the answer.

So I guess if you can deal with "meh" for the simple sake of having a manual....well....I guess you'll be happy with most any manual that gets put out and live in a state of perpetual automotive bliss.

And to the point of "auto execs must know best".  You really believe that??  I mean....Porsche says the Boxster is better with the 4 banger.  And we both know that's !!  However,  since you (like the rest of us) aren't an auto exec, I'll assume  you'll go along with what they say and your shiny red Boxster will be of the 4 banger type??  I can't wait for your review!

Wow, really?  That's what you retort to?   

Dude...they did it for a reason!!  Surely they know better than you do for what you'd actually want in your garage!  They should be congratulated for offering a 4 banger speedster in the first place because there are so few on the market.   Don't try and understand it.  It's beyond you....they are auto execs and you're a forum expert at best..nothing more.

Don't criticize...just get on board.   

[Gurgie]

This thread cracks me up!!! Loving it!!!!

Still not sure why so much defence against them not offering a manual in the 6... all of us car guys are saying is it JUST would've been a GREAT idea, and from soley my view point it may have been a great marketing idea for them.

Please continue as you were, looking forward to reading the nonsense later today.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[rrocket]

This thread cracks me up!!! Loving it!!!!

Still not sure why so much defence against them not offering a manual in the 6... all of us car guys are saying is it JUST would've been a GREAT idea, and from soley my view point it may have been a great marketing idea for them.

Please continue as you were, looking forward to reading the nonsense later today.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

Lots of fun! Shane, Roger and whoever else busting my balls always makes for a laugh.

Here...let me switch gears. I'm ALSO disappointed no RWD V6 model. Now, without a manual, I would have been quite content with the RWD V6 model!  Would be similar (likely better! ) than my GS400...which was a nice package. You'll recall I was quite pissed when the RWD versions of the IS and GS went away here. Big, big disappointment as the RWD versions were the best handling and friskiest of those models. The RWD IS350 was fantastic..

So there you go. I'm a lover of RWD...and think this Genesis would be stellar with it and the V6.

[Patrick_D1]

...all of us car guys are saying is it JUST would've been a GREAT idea, and from soley my view point it may have been a great marketing idea for them.

This I completely agree with - I'll continue to be the thorn in the factory's side on this front. If a manual 3.3T ever were available, I'd be standing at the front of the line for a set of keys.

Where my eyes begin to roll firmly into the back of my head is when the comments go from "it would be nice" to "they're idiots for not doing it", of which there's been a few.

Anyway, I'll have a Siberian Ice 3.3T Sport this weekend assuming the weather allows (Michelin Pilot Sport 4 doesn't like snow), can share more pictures then.

[Jaeger]

...all of us car guys are saying is it JUST would've been a GREAT idea, and from soley my view point it may have been a great marketing idea for them.

This I completely agree with - I'll continue to be the thorn in the factory's side on this front. If a manual 3.3T ever were available, I'd be standing at the front of the line for a set of keys.

Where my eyes begin to roll firmly into the back of my head is when the comments go from "it would be nice" to "they're idiots for not doing it", of which there's been a few.

Anyway, I'll have a Siberian Ice 3.3T Sport this weekend assuming the weather allows (Michelin Pilot Sport 4 doesn't like snow), can share more pictures then.

Exactly this.  "It would be nice" is manifestly not all that those clamoring for a manual V6 have said.  Some want to spin it that way now.  Unfortunately for them, the rest of us can read.

Looking forward to more pics.  I'd like to see the shade that would displace Nurburg Green from the top of my want list.

[OliverD]

And to the point of "auto execs must know best".  You really believe that??  I mean....Porsche says the Boxster is better with the 4 banger.  And we both know that's !!  However,  since you (like the rest of us) aren't an auto exec, I'll assume  you'll go along with what they say and your shiny red Boxster will be of the 4 banger type??  I can't wait for your review!

Let's be real: Cylinder counts have dropped not because there is market demand or even because the car companies think four cylinders are better than six or eight. It's because it's easier to meet fuel economy targets with fewer cylinders. The shift towards 2.0Ts in every category of vehicle isn't being driven by market demand, it's driven by regulations.

[BWII]

Anyway, I'll have a Siberian Ice 3.3T Sport this weekend assuming the weather allows (Michelin Pilot Sport 4 doesn't like snow), can share more pictures then.

Nice!  Is it a stretch to hope it has nicer wheels than the press car?    (sorry, they're too black...and they aren't the nice wheels  ) I can't wait to see it...