Topic: Best look at the upcoming G70 so far.

[ArticSteve]

Well I'm sure Patrick can speak to it MUCH better than I ever could, but I'm guess there's something in there regarding the economics of it.  lol.   As much as I hate it, every single car manufacturer it seems is moving away from manual trannys.......must be a financial reason behind it I"m guessing as the sticks just don't sell much now. 


I'm sure the "economics" suck with respect in having to stock a manual in whatever number of colours when the cars are imported from Korea.  But "efficiencies" are not the priorities right now.  Got only one shot at branding, as in "luxury PERFORMANCE",  and a remake of the 4 banger TIB is not going to do it.

[Patrick_D1]

Wow, quite a discussion going on here. Without getting into specifics, the economics are about more than just having to order and stock cars. Every engine and powertrain combination requires countless hours of work in design and engineering, not just up front, but also on the regulatory side. It's not a simple as bolting up a gearbox and going "yep, job done." The engine needs fit with it, auxiliary systems need to be routed accordingly, it needs to be carefully tuned, the car may need to be crash tested again, it needs to pass emissions, etc. It's one additional variation to tune, test, and validate, one more to do winter and hot weather assessment with, etc.

This is why manuals are disappearing - the business case is questionable (to put it charitably) and modern automatics are now superior to manuals in all measurable ways. For those of us who only care about the intangible connection in a manual car, this is a sad fact to come to terms with. Thankfully, sometimes there are other factors that make one version more feasible to bring to market than another.

In this instance, where it was a case of 2.0T 6MT or no three-pedal car at all, I'm pleased to have the choice. As are the 7% of our buyers so far who have put down a $1,000 pre-order for the manual car.

Of course, you can't please everyone.

Patrick - how long before we start seeing some full instrumented road tests on these cars from the mags?

Not 100% sure. Canadian media will drive it next month, but no Canadian outlet does fully instrumented testing. The U.S. buff books will get their hands on it a few months later. We may need to wait until then.

[rrocket]

Everything Patrick says goes without saying (at least for me, as I work in the industry)

I guess my thought is...I don't think it would have been appreciably more costly to do the V6 as a manual from the get-go engineering rather than the 4 pot.

Nice take rate so far though....hopefully it continues.

[SearhardBurger]

Interesting discussion.

I'm with quad on this.

My 2 cents - "Enthusiast" is a vague term, and therefore, I always feel that saying "the enthusiast's option" isn't defining anything.  What is an enthusiast anyway?  If someone buys a 3.3 V6 Dynamic or Sport, instead of the 2.0 manual, does it mean they are less of an enthusiast by default?  There must be members on here with 1000s of posts, but may not own a car with a manual transmission.  Does that mean they aren't car enthusiasts?  Where does it say to appeal to a "real" enthusiast, a company must offer a V6 or V8 rwd with a manual?

The number of people that SAY "ooooooooh manuals, RWD" etc. far outnumber the people that actually BUY these vehicles.  Needless to say, Genesis, or any other company for that matter, doesn't make any money by people SAYING "great job offering the V6 with a manual".  You've got to put your money where your mouth is, so to speak.

[Jaeger]

^^^ Indeed. And no doubt they have considered more carefully than anyone else here how many people re likely to put their money where their mouth is for a manual at the V6 price point.  Armchair quarterbacks can second guess all day long. They aren't strapping on a helmet.

[Gurgie]

^^^ Indeed. And no doubt they have considered more carefully than anyone else here how many people re likely to put their money where their mouth is for a manual at the V6 price point.  Armchair quarterbacks can second guess all day long. They aren't strapping on a helmet.

But does that make it right, just because they considered it carefully? And we should just believe what manufacturers say is best for us? I still feel that having the option would be a great sales point & even if the take up rate is only 7%, that's 7% less people buying cars from the competition [emoji16]

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[OliverD]

I guess my thought is...I don't think it would have been appreciably more costly to do the V6 as a manual from the get-go engineering rather than the 4 pot.

I wonder if there will be other applications for the four cylinder/manual combo that makes this whole exercise more feasible to begin with though.

[JohnnyMac]

Holy cow you guys love to talk about this car.  28 pages and counting (the Kia Stinger has over 30 pages too)!  I predict maybe 1 person on this forum buys one.  I'd love for it to be more for Patricks sake but I just think it'll sell in low numbers for a multitude of reasons. 

If there was a Genesis dealer here in NB I might actually be that guy who buys one but the closest dealer will be 4 hours away and that's way too far for any warranty work or free maintenance. 

[OliverD]

Nah, it's just a good excuse to go to Halifax and enjoy the the city.

[SearhardBurger]

In chatting with a Genesis Sales Manager & Genesis Experience Manager (that is his full title) from Genesis Edmonton, Winnipeg is getting a Genesis store this summer.

Patrick - can you confirm?

[ArticSteve]

Let's talk about the real market for these upstream vehicles ... the USA.  Yea, I can see how futile the uptake will be for a manual in Canada.  But come on, if you're going to offer it for the sake of creating an image of a "luxury PERFORMANCE" sedan at least put the manual in the version with some guts.

For those of you who think these chaps in Korea know what their doing ... well for 3 years they facked around trying to sell "genesis" out of Hyundai stores.  3 years WASTED.  All these Genesis stores should already be in place and running.  On top of that they are introducing sedans when they should be introducing SUVs/CUVs.

So when ppl argue that they know what they are doing by putting the manual in the 4 pot I say really    Personally I think they are better off not offering a manual because the 4 pot manual will be ridiculed in the US.  You need to hit the US homies with both barrels as in 365 HP! if not just for promotional purposes.

[rrocket]

Let's talk about the real market for these upstream vehicles ... the USA.  Yea, I can see how futile the uptake will be for a manual in Canada.  But come on, if you're going to offer it for the sake of creating an image of a "luxury PERFORMANCE" sedan at least put the manual in the version with some guts.

For those of you who think these chaps in Korea know what their doing ... well for 3 years they facked around trying to sell "genesis" out of Hyundai stores.  3 years WASTED.  All these Genesis stores should already be in place and running.  On top of that they are introducing sedans when they should be introducing SUVs/CUVs.

So when ppl argue that they know what they are doing by putting the manual in the 4 pot I say really    Personally I think they are better off not offering a manual because the 4 pot manual will be ridiculed in the US.  You need to hit the US homies with both barrels as in 365 HP! if not just for promotional purposes.

Good post.

And the same people were also telling us Genesis knew what they were doing when they decided NOT to have their own dealers/showrooms.   

It pains me to agree about the CUV/SUV part.  But America is carzy for those vehicles.

Am glad they are making sedans though!

[OliverD]

Let's talk about the real market for these upstream vehicles ... the USA.  Yea, I can see how futile the uptake will be for a manual in Canada.  But come on, if you're going to offer it for the sake of creating an image of a "luxury PERFORMANCE" sedan at least put the manual in the version with some guts.

For those of you who think these chaps in Korea know what their doing ... well for 3 years they facked around trying to sell "genesis" out of Hyundai stores.  3 years WASTED.  All these Genesis stores should already be in place and running.  On top of that they are introducing sedans when they should be introducing SUVs/CUVs.

So when ppl argue that they know what they are doing by putting the manual in the 4 pot I say really    Personally I think they are better off not offering a manual because the 4 pot manual will be ridiculed in the US.  You need to hit the US homies with both barrels as in 365 HP! if not just for promotional purposes.

How do you feel about the A4/A5 being available with a manual but the S4/S5 being automatic only?

[CanuckS2K]

^^^ Indeed. And no doubt they have considered more carefully than anyone else here how many people re likely to put their money where their mouth is for a manual at the V6 price point.  Armchair quarterbacks can second guess all day long. They aren't strapping on a helmet.

But does that make it right, just because they considered it carefully? And we should just believe what manufacturers say is best for us? I still feel that having the option would be a great sales point & even if the take up rate is only 7%, that's 7% less people buying cars from the competition [emoji16]

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No, they are doing what's best for them.  And rightfully so.  And as far as the 7% less people buying from the competition......what competition?  Virtually no one else is offering a manual either in their top trim.  Personally I don't like it either.  If I were in the market for a sport sedan that my wife wasn't driving I'd want manual in top trim as well. 

[Jaeger]

If the S5 sportback came in a manual Chances are I’d be driving one right now.

Feel the same with no manual on ATS 3.6 as I mentioned a week ago.

If you aren’t going to do a suv, which you should, at least do a manual sports sedan to attract buyers. At the very least you have a great marketing tool with probably glowing reviews and at best you ya e a hit.

Now you’re still all in on value.

I'd say they did do a manual sport sedan to attract buyers.

[alljay]

This whole debate about whether the right decision was made to not offer a manual transmission on the V6 is absolutely laughable.  The market has spoken and the absurdly overwhelming response is that car buyers in North America do not want manual transmissions.  Even in Europe, manual transmissions are being replaced.  By every objective measure, the automatic transmissions today are better -- they offer better performance and they are easier and more convenient to use.

I have been driving for over 30 years and have owned a lot of cars, but I've never owned an automatic.  I love driving a manual transmission car, love it!  But I am a dinosaur.  I still use a blackberry with a keyboard (it is a work phone). Nobody will ever convince me that a touch screen can offer the same feel or accuracy of my keyboard, but there isn't a phone maker in the world who wants to go back to a physical keyboard.  But, if a top end phone manufacturer found a way to make a killer phone with a physical keyboard, my heart tells me that it would be a huge hit for business users, like me, who send 200+ emails/texts per day.  (Imagine the new Iphone or the S9 with a keyboard... wouldn't it be great?!)  But my brain knows that the 12 people in the world who still love physical keyboards would be attracted to the phone and that we'd probably each buy one, but it wouldn't be profitable and it wouldn't change the buying patterns of the rest of the world who have grown accustomed to the virtual keyboard.

So waive your blackberries.  Hold your typewriters high.  Screw in those incandescent light bulbs.  Turn on those CRT TVs with their perfect blacks.  Yell at those clouds, old men, and tilt at those windmills.  Maybe history will reverse itself this time.  Or, maybe you should just buy a car that you like and if a manual transmission is the be all and end all, buy the car the manual transmission you like the most and accept the car that surrounds it.

From a finance perspective, I think it is crazy that Genesis put the money into developing a manual version, but I'm very happy they did.  I'm seriously considering one.  My other half loves what she's seen of the car, but she wants a car with AWD and she doesn't get the love of manual transmissions or LSDs or RWD.  Then again, she's not an enthusiast and it is unlikely that I would buy another car that she can't drive...

[Jaeger]

^^^ Indeed. And no doubt they have considered more carefully than anyone else here how many people re likely to put their money where their mouth is for a manual at the V6 price point.  Armchair quarterbacks can second guess all day long. They aren't strapping on a helmet.

But does that make it right, just because they considered it carefully? And we should just believe what manufacturers say is best for us? I still feel that having the option would be a great sales point & even if the take up rate is only 7%, that's 7% less people buying cars from the competition [emoji16]

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No, they are doing what's best for them.  And rightfully so.  And as far as the 7% less people buying from the competition......what competition?  Virtually no one else is offering a manual either in their top trim.  Personally I don't like it either.  If I were in the market for a sport sedan that my wife wasn't driving I'd want manual in top trim as well.

Spot on.  Again.

[Jaeger]

This whole debate about whether the right decision was made to not offer a manual transmission on the V6 is absolutely laughable.  The market has spoken and the absurdly overwhelming response is that car buyers in North America do not want manual transmissions.  Even in Europe, manual transmissions are being replaced.  By every objective measure, the automatic transmissions today are better -- they offer better performance and they are easier and more convenient to use.

I have been driving for over 30 years and have owned a lot of cars, but I've never owned an automatic.  I love driving a manual transmission car, love it!  But I am a dinosaur.  I still use a blackberry with a keyboard (it is a work phone). Nobody will ever convince me that a touch screen can offer the same feel or accuracy of my keyboard, but there isn't a phone maker in the world who wants to go back to a physical keyboard.  But, if a top end phone manufacturer found a way to make a killer phone with a physical keyboard, my heart tells me that it would be a huge hit for business users, like me, who send 200+ emails/texts per day.  (Imagine the new Iphone or the S9 with a keyboard... wouldn't it be great?!)  But my brain knows that the 12 people in the world who still love physical keyboards would be attracted to the phone and that we'd probably each buy one, but it wouldn't be profitable and it wouldn't change the buying patterns of the rest of the world who have grown accustomed to the virtual keyboard.

So waive your blackberries.  Hold your typewriters high.  Screw in those incandescent light bulbs.  Turn on those CRT TVs with their perfect blacks.  Yell at those clouds, old men, and tilt at those windmills.  Maybe history will reverse itself this time.  Or, maybe you should just buy a car that you like and if a manual transmission is the be all and end all, buy the car the manual transmission you like the most and accept the car that surrounds it.

From a finance perspective, I think it is crazy that Genesis put the money into developing a manual version, but I'm very happy they did.  I'm seriously considering one.  My other half loves what she's seen of the car, but she wants a car with AWD and she doesn't get the love of manual transmissions or LSDs or RWD.  Then again, she's not an enthusiast and it is unlikely that I would buy another car that she can't drive...

And another guy who gets it.

[rrocket]

This whole debate about whether the right decision was made to not offer a manual transmission on the V6 is absolutely laughable.  The market has spoken and the absurdly overwhelming response is that car buyers in North America do not want manual transmissions.  Even in Europe, manual transmissions are being replaced.  By every objective measure, the automatic transmissions today are better -- they offer better performance and they are easier and more convenient to use.

I have been driving for over 30 years and have owned a lot of cars, but I've never owned an automatic.  I love driving a manual transmission car, love it!  But I am a dinosaur.  I still use a blackberry with a keyboard (it is a work phone). Nobody will ever convince me that a touch screen can offer the same feel or accuracy of my keyboard, but there isn't a phone maker in the world who wants to go back to a physical keyboard.  But, if a top end phone manufacturer found a way to make a killer phone with a physical keyboard, my heart tells me that it would be a huge hit for business users, like me, who send 200+ emails/texts per day.  (Imagine the new Iphone or the S9 with a keyboard... wouldn't it be great?!)  But my brain knows that the 12 people in the world who still love physical keyboards would be attracted to the phone and that we'd probably each buy one, but it wouldn't be profitable and it wouldn't change the buying patterns of the rest of the world who have grown accustomed to the virtual keyboard.

So waive your blackberries.  Hold your typewriters high.  Screw in those incandescent light bulbs.  Turn on those CRT TVs with their perfect blacks.  Yell at those clouds, old men, and tilt at those windmills.  Maybe history will reverse itself this time.  Or, maybe you should just buy a car that you like and if a manual transmission is the be all and end all, buy the car the manual transmission you like the most and accept the car that surrounds it.

From a finance perspective, I think it is crazy that Genesis put the money into developing a manual version, but I'm very happy they did.  I'm seriously considering one.  My other half loves what she's seen of the car, but she wants a car with AWD and she doesn't get the love of manual transmissions or LSDs or RWD.  Then again, she's not an enthusiast and it is unlikely that I would buy another car that she can't drive...

And another guy who gets it.

Well all get it.   

But many are disappointed it's not the big dog V6.  Nothing more than that.

Not so sure what's so difficult to understand about personal preference...or makes us any less of an "enthusiast" or someone who "doesn't get it".   

Despite owning Porsches, I almost barfed when they went to 4 cylinders in the Cayman and Boxster.  Does this mean "I don't get it"?  Or does this mean I just think the flat 6 is a bazillion times better than a 4 pot could ever be? 

[Jaeger]

Let's talk about the real market for these upstream vehicles ... the USA.  Yea, I can see how futile the uptake will be for a manual in Canada.  But come on, if you're going to offer it for the sake of creating an image of a "luxury PERFORMANCE" sedan at least put the manual in the version with some guts.

For those of you who think these chaps in Korea know what their doing ... well for 3 years they facked around trying to sell "genesis" out of Hyundai stores.  3 years WASTED.  All these Genesis stores should already be in place and running.  On top of that they are introducing sedans when they should be introducing SUVs/CUVs.

So when ppl argue that they know what they are doing by putting the manual in the 4 pot I say really    Personally I think they are better off not offering a manual because the 4 pot manual will be ridiculed in the US.  You need to hit the US homies with both barrels as in 365 HP! if not just for promotional purposes.

How do you feel about the A4/A5 being available with a manual but the S4/S5 being automatic only?

Clearly Audi doesn't know what they are doing.