Topic: Mango's 2018 Camaro SS 1LE

[Gurgie]

I wish I had PTM on the 951 last night, gets sideways much too easy right now... gotta buy new tires... I don't even have ABS, LOL!!!

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You sound like a real man

Only when I drive the 951 like I stole it... which is 98% of the time [emoji12]

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[johngenx]

I don't even have ABS, LOL!!!

One of the few "Nannies" I wish the Miata had is ABS.

[Gurgie]

I don't even have ABS, LOL!!!

One of the few "Nannies" I wish the Miata had is ABS.

I never lock the tires up on the street, but I have on the track a few times 

[Fobroader]

I don't even have ABS, LOL!!!

One of the few "Nannies" I wish the Miata had is ABS.

ABS is one of the "nannies" that I wholeheartedly agree with.

[dirtyjeffer]

I don't even have ABS, LOL!!!

One of the few "Nannies" I wish the Miata had is ABS.

ABS is one of the "nannies" that I wholeheartedly agree with.

agreed, to a certain extent...the only issue is most people don't really know what ABS is for...they think it's for stopping faster (ex, push the pedal to the floor and let ABS do its thing).

[ChaosphereIX]

I wish I had PTM on the 951 last night, gets sideways much too easy right now... gotta buy new tires... I don't even have ABS, LOL!!!

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You sound like a real man

Only when I drive the 951 like I stole it... which is 98% of the time [emoji12]

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man I really want to tear up some back roads with you, would love to try and keep up

[Triple Bob]

I turn them off more than you’d think. Alpha chassis is very forgiving and tells you what the limits are. Tires need a lot of time for heat though and that’s a and scary.. if you have heat in the tires you almost can’t see the limit on the street unless you mash the throttle mid-turn.

I like PTM if I’m driving aggressively on A road I don’t know because I know it will be there to bail me out if I up (within reason)

I usually like it off or in a more agreesive setting because I don’t like when it limits power and/or torque.

I used to lean heavily on the electronics in the C63, doing unplowed back roads at ridiculous speeds in the middle of Winter.  I'm amazed they could keep the car on the road, if not pointing it in generally the right direction.

[Serniter]

I don't even have ABS, LOL!!!

One of the few "Nannies" I wish the Miata had is ABS.

ABS is one of the "nannies" that I wholeheartedly agree with.

agreed, to a certain extent...the only issue is most people don't really know what ABS is for...they think it's for stopping faster (ex, push the pedal to the floor and let ABS do its thing).

Isn’t that how ABS works? If you stand on the brake in a panic stop, ABS will pulse brake pressure to prevent a lock up?

[tortoise]

If you stand on the brake in a panic stop, ABS will pulse brake pressure to prevent a lock up?

I think what it's really doing locking and unlocking the tires many many times per second.  IMO, trained driver could stop faster by modulating brakes so they don't lock and engage ABS, but that takes a lot of skill. 

The real benefit to ABS is that it lets drivers maintain steering during panic maneuvers where the tendency is to lock the brakes.

[ktm525]

The only time where ABS is not a benefit is in very low traction ice/snow and a stop in a straight line is desired. In this very unique situation dragging the tires seems to be more effective. Otherwise ABS.

[UnknownJinX]

Got me thinking, if I am looking at the used market, should I look at a Corvette Stingray Z51 or a Camaro SS 1LE?

Driving home from the mountains I saw a ZL-1 1LE on the highway.  Black with BC plates - no front plate!  The second one I've seen.  The Miata shook a bit when it went by - damn.

Nice. I’ve never even seen a standard ZL1 on the road.

Co-worker has a ragtop version.

Ew

I'm guessing he bought the ragtop so he could actually see out the car.   

Also...sold his Grand National to help finance the purchase.

See, if I were to get a Coupe, I would get one with sunroof.

That's the nice thing about the 'vette. The hardtop is still a half convertible.

[blur911]

If you stand on the brake in a panic stop, ABS will pulse brake pressure to prevent a lock up?

I think what it's really doing locking and unlocking the tires many many times per second.  IMO, trained driver could stop faster by modulating brakes so they don't lock and engage ABS, but that takes a lot of skill. 

I can't modulate the pressure to individual wheels, a good ABS system can.
Also, in my experience on dry pavement with decent tires,  most people don't push hard enough to even engage ABS.  On the track I've several times had to tell the driver to push harder as they have more brakes.

[ktm525]

If you stand on the brake in a panic stop, ABS will pulse brake pressure to prevent a lock up?

I think what it's really doing locking and unlocking the tires many many times per second.  IMO, trained driver could stop faster by modulating brakes so they don't lock and engage ABS, but that takes a lot of skill. 

I can't modulate the pressure to individual wheels, a good ABS system can.
Also, in my experience on dry pavement with decent tires,  most people don't push hard enough to even engage ABS.  On the track I've several times had to tell the driver to push harder as they have more brakes.

Its the same thing I tell my wife while we are running errands on the weekends. "most passing occurs in the braking zones"   

[UnknownJinX]

Got me thinking, if I am looking at the used market, should I look at a Corvette Stingray Z51 or a Camaro SS 1LE?

Driving home from the mountains I saw a ZL-1 1LE on the highway.  Black with BC plates - no front plate!  The second one I've seen.  The Miata shook a bit when it went by - damn.

Nice. I’ve never even seen a standard ZL1 on the road.

Co-worker has a ragtop version.

Ew

I'm guessing he bought the ragtop so he could actually see out the car.   

Also...sold his Grand National to help finance the purchase.

See, if I were to get a Coupe, I would get one with sunroof.

That's the nice thing about the 'vette. The hardtop is still a half convertible.

Don't miss the sunroof on the 1LE with it being a fairly hardcore weapon....but in the main I'm a sunroof guy.

The targa top on the Vettes is perfect. As I get older the targas et al. are becoming more appealing to me.

If I get one, it will be my only car and a casual AutoX toy, maybe track as well. I do them just for fun, nothing too competitive.

Corvette's targa top makes the soft top option kinda pointless IMO. I drove a rental soft top before. The cargo space is pretty pathetic compared to the targa top version.

I kinda like how big the Corvette cargo space is while the Camaro's trunk opening looks even tinier than my RX-8's, which was already small. It's a lighter car as well. About the only things that seems to work for Camaro is the price and (the pretty tight) rear seats. Still a very attractive car, though. Might still give it a hard look when the time comes.

[UnknownJinX]

Yeah from what I have looked up, 6th Gen Camaro SS 1LE and C7 Stingray Z51 are very similar in terms of performance. The Camaro may just lag a touch behind, but not by much.

Other than performance, I think the difference between the two boils down to these:

Corvette: bigger cargo space, better fuel economy(I know not a lot of people care, but still), lighter, targa top, more luxury look and feel

Camaro: rear seats, better manual transmission(I heard the C7 7-speed feels a bit off), probably better value for performance, more muscly look and feel

BTW, this may be an unpopular opinion but the 6th Gen Camaro facelift is growing on me. I thought it was ugly at first but now it looks kinda cool to me.

Looks like I will have to test drive both later this year and determine...

[dirtyjeffer]

The real benefit to ABS is that it lets drivers maintain steering during panic maneuvers where the tendency is to lock the brakes.

^^^ DING DING DING.

this is what ABS is for...it's not for planting your foot to the floor, while your car pulses the brakes as you plow into the rear end of the truck in front of you...it's so you can give it aggressive amounts of braking, but still be able to steer the vehicle around whatever you would normally run into.

[dirtyjeffer]

Am I the only one left with the impression at times that ABS is so interventionist that it appears to delay stopping?

no, you are correct...that isn't what it is for...it is to allow you to maintain some steering ability so you can avoid the obstacle you may have otherwise run into...watch those blizzard highway videos on youtube...people on a highway (like a 401 style highway), coming up to a crash scene, with the brakes mashed to the floor, sliding right into each other....all they need to do is steer out of the line and hit the shoulder (or ditch) to avoid being in the pile...but they don't, they floor the brake, slam into the other cars and likely go "this ABS didn't stop be me".

[blur911]

The real benefit to ABS is that it lets drivers maintain steering during panic maneuvers where the tendency is to lock the brakes.

^^^ DING DING DING.

this is what ABS is for...it's not for planting your foot to the floor, while your car pulses the brakes as you plow into the rear end of the truck in front of you...it's so you can give it aggressive amounts of braking, but still be able to steer the vehicle around whatever you would normally run into.

Why can't it be both?         

They had to add braking assist because nobody hits the brakes hard enough.     Are you saying you shouldn't hit the pedal hard enough to engage ABS?

[dirtyjeffer]

The real benefit to ABS is that it lets drivers maintain steering during panic maneuvers where the tendency is to lock the brakes.

^^^ DING DING DING.

this is what ABS is for...it's not for planting your foot to the floor, while your car pulses the brakes as you plow into the rear end of the truck in front of you...it's so you can give it aggressive amounts of braking, but still be able to steer the vehicle around whatever you would normally run into.

Why can't it be both?         

They had to add braking assist because nobody hits the brakes hard enough.     Are you saying you shouldn't hit the pedal hard enough to engage ABS?

ideally, you don't want to lock up the brakes, because you won't stop doing that (and you can't steer)...however, in a panic situation with 99% of regular drivers, the instinctive reaction is to slam on the brakes, which on most cars made in the last 30+ years, means you will lock up the wheels, hence the addition of ABS...ABS sole purpose to prevent full lock up...it is to do this to allow you to maintain steering ability with your car...for some reason, people thought it was so you can mindless floor the brake pedal and the car will magically stop and you won't smash into things...that's not what it's for...it's sole purpose is to allow you to steer if you happen to apply too much brake force (which is common, it's not that hard to lock up the wheels on modern cars if the roads are even slightly slick).

[blur911]

I have 2nd season WS-80s.  The other week I hit the brake while on my local street in slushy conditions.  The ABS must have modulated uselessly for at least 200 feet.  The experience shook my confidence in the ability of ABS to stop as quickly as possible.  I have had similar experiences before where I’ve been left with the impression that ABS leaves you worse off.  Of course, what I don’t know is how things would have gone without ABS.

On ice and off-road I certainly agree.   I miss my old Audi that had an ABS OFF switch in the middle of the dash for just such occasions.  On pavement in non-winter, ABS wins.

But, to keep on thread... the electronics in the 1LE can certainly do wonders, you really should track it to fully enjoy.