Topic: Test Drive: 2017 Subaru Forester 2.5i Touring w/Tech Package

[dirtyjeffer]

I posted that just so potential future buyers don't think "ZOMG, it's a Subaru, HG or turbo's gonna fail..."  It would be interesting to see percentages over 20 yrs.  That's probably where you would see a large drop in FCA 

I dunno WTF Norm's posting about.  Don't know many compacts that would win over a Pilot 

20 years would certainly see a sharp drop off in percentage, but that would likely be similar for all brands (20 years is a pretty long time)...the other problem that skews that percentage is that many brands have really improved their year over year sales in the past decade...since you used 10 years as an example, a brand like Hyundai likely has a significant increase in numbers of vehicles sold if you went back a decade...considering most of those will still be on the road, the more recent sales performance numbers will skew the results to look more favourable...while subaru's numbers are certainly a much smaller scale, they still have been increasing their sales volumes over the years...then, factor in brands like VW, Toyota and GM who sell TONS of cars every year, but also likely see increases and the point still stands...even if most of the cars didn't last longer than 8 years, the sheer volume of cars sold, increasing every year, would still give the marketing department a nice number to look at and advertise...that's why that phrase is more sizzle than steak.

[johngenx]

Head gasket issues on Subarus are mostly borne by second or later owners.  This is one major reason why it's had no effect on new car sales - most new car buyers have sold it before anything happens, and so they have no qualms about buying another one or recommending one to friends.

Overall, Subarus are pretty stout machines.  Lots of safety features, great collision protection, good electronics, very nice to drive with careful attention taken to outward visibility and ease of driving, and so on.

I can't speak to the new CVTs, but their older automatics are fantastic - long lived and easy to care for.  The AWD systems are reliable and most last the life of the car easily.  There were a few hiccups a long time ago with the center diff on the manual-trans AWDs, but that was ages ago and long solved.  Hell, even at 430K, the LSD in the Forester's rear diff still hooks up!

But there's a few nagging things that Subaru just can't seem to either solve, or doesn't care to.  Year and years of them eat rear wheel bearings.  As the "newer" models get some miles on them, we're seeing this still.  Ugh.  Same for brake calipers.  With the exception of high performance models, Subarus have failing brake calipers at a far worse rate than I've seen with any other car.  Rear calipers especially.  CR reports caliper failure as one of the most common brake service items on all Subarus.  My indie tech says they don't bother doing a Subaru brake job anymore without replacing or rebuilding the calipers.  But, those things aren't that hard to live with.  The expensive engine repair is the big bummer that often sends Subaru owners to other brands.

[JG20]

Anecdotal evidence:  A good friend has a 2010 Forester that he bought new.  Not sure of the trim level but it's not the XT.  Nothing but regular maintenance on it.  His only complaint is the fuel economy.  I believe he's close to 200k now.  I guess we'll see how it is beyond 200k if he decides to keep it...

[JG20]

Head gasket issues on Subarus are mostly borne by second or later owners.  This is one major reason why it's had no effect on new car sales - most new car buyers have sold it before anything happens, and so they have no qualms about buying another one or recommending one to friends.

Overall, Subarus are pretty stout machines.  Lots of safety features, great collision protection, good electronics, very nice to drive with careful attention taken to outward visibility and ease of driving, and so on.

I can't speak to the new CVTs, but their older automatics are fantastic - long lived and easy to care for.  The AWD systems are reliable and most last the life of the car easily.  There were a few hiccups a long time ago with the center diff on the manual-trans AWDs, but that was ages ago and long solved.  Hell, even at 430K, the LSD in the Forester's rear diff still hooks up!

But there's a few nagging things that Subaru just can't seem to either solve, or doesn't care to.  Year and years of them eat rear wheel bearings.  As the "newer" models get some miles on them, we're seeing this still.  Ugh.  Same for brake calipers.  With the exception of high performance models, Subarus have failing brake calipers at a far worse rate than I've seen with any other car.  Rear calipers especially.  CR reports caliper failure as one of the most common brake service items on all Subarus.  My indie tech says they don't bother doing a Subaru brake job anymore without replacing or rebuilding the calipers.  But, those things aren't that hard to live with.  The expensive engine repair is the big bummer that often sends Subaru owners to other brands.

That doesn't explain the high resale value.  Subarus are consistently among the highest retained values of all manufacturers.  One of the reasons I bought my car new.  Because of the discounted finance rate, I got my car cheaper than one a few years old.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Anecdotal evidence:  A good friend has a 2010 Forester that he bought new.  Not sure of the trim level but it's not the XT.  Nothing but regular maintenance on it.  His only complaint is the fuel economy.  I believe he's close to 200k now.  I guess we'll see how it is beyond 200k if he decides to keep it...

My MIL had a 2002 Outback 2.5 manual transmission, sold recently.  Nice car, but the fuel economy on it was awful.  Easily as bad as my 2006 Ranger 4x4 with the significantly more powerful 4.0 V6 (and that truck got terrible mileage).

AFAIK, that car only had 'normal' problems that older cars have.  The clutch master cylinder packed up at one point, new clutch, new bearings, etc.  'normal' stuff that you'd expect on higher mileage vehicles.  She bought it used with 100 000k, though.   I have no idea if the Head Gasket ever failed before she bought it or not, or if she had to replace it before I knew her.


Huh, this may explain my 'animosity' towards Subaru's....my MIL!!!!!!    (I jest, I jest...I don't have any animosity towards Subaru's - I really like them, I'm just not blind to their flaws).

[johngenx]

That doesn't explain the high resale value.  Subarus are consistently among the highest retained values of all manufacturers.  One of the reasons I bought my car new.  Because of the discounted finance rate, I got my car cheaper than one a few years old.

There are plenty of die-hard Subaru owners that buy them used, keep them, repair them, and nurse them to very high mileages.  I am one of them!!  Were I younger and had more patience, I'd probably do it all over again.  But, I want a boring SUV now, so the Highlander fits perfectly.

And what is "high resale?"  The sale price to the second owner?  Sure.  A Forester with 90K on it is a high priced used vehicle.  People either know that they might have some issues in the future, and figure it's cheaper than a new one (me, when I bought ours) or they just don't know about potential engine problems, etc.  Go to some headgasket threads on Subaru forums and you'll find lots of second owners that are a couple years (or more...) into their life with their Scoob and are angry about the quite substantial repair bill they're facing.  "I thought these were great cars!"

I still check ads for a 2004 WRX wagon.  The 2.0L turbo has about the worst lag since the old single turbo 911s, but they're fun as hell and tank-like.  I think though that other Subaru enthusiasts have thought this through too, and that particular year sell fast when listed.  Ugh.

[JG20]

^ I get what you're saying but it can't account for all of it.  Around here, used Subarus command a premium.  And it can't be just enthusiasts picking them up.  WRXs or STIs?  Forget about it.  No discounts from a high asking price and they sell pretty quickly.  It's stupid what people ask for a 10+ year old STI, but they sell anyway.  Like I said, it's one of the reasons I decided to buy new.  Cadure mentioned earlier that he sold his 3 yr old STI that cost around 40k for 34k.

[G.Bombay]

With all the growth Subaru is having it would be nice to see them grow their dealer network. I live in the Guelph area and I'm not really interested in driving to the gta to check out the cars or Kitchener for that matter. I realize I'm much closer than many people but I don't live in a remote area. Subaru is large enough to add a dealer somewhere in the Miton, Guelph, Orangeville area imo.

[Noto]

As a now fellow Guelphite with a Subaru,

...but Kitchener isn't that far and it wouldn't really stop me from buyingleasing another Subaru.

[KD]

^ The HG on my OBW blew at ~130K.

That stinks, sorry. What year was yours? My LGT is approaching 160k, wondering how wary I need to be.

Sorry, just seeing this now.

Mine was a 1998.  A good friend of mine that we hang out with quite a bit had a 2008(?) obw and the hg went on it early last year.  It had less than 200k and was well maintained, as was mine. 

The thing that irked me most about my incident is that it left us stranded ironically during a heavy snowstorm.  I had a buddy with me at the time and I was waxing on about how well it performed in the snow, then "ah, what's that smell...ah fak!"  That was the second time it left me stranded.  The first time was when the alternator failed during a long drive home one night from cottage country.  I also had three failed wheel bearing and a handful of other minor issues.  All were covered under warranty except for the hg.  The hvac was terrible in that car was well.  I had a Ford Taurus wagon as a company car at the time and never had one problem with that, and the hvac in that was the most powerful of any car I've owned even to this day.

Despite all the troubles I had with my obw I still enjoyed driving it and much more so than the Taurus wagon.  It just did everything so well and had a good solid feel to it on any kind of road surface.  I chalked most of my problems down to a bad unit, except for the hg failure.  I actually considered buying another Subaru and an obw was the finalist last time we bought.  We didn't even consider a Subaru this time mainly because of the questionable hg.

[NormT]

Doesn't the Forester come with two different AWD systems depending on transmission choice?  The current Forester is a huge seller, Subaru's leader I assume.  It's today's family station wagon.  Since the OS has a SUBIE dealer I see a lot, the majority been in the bottom trims.  The 2.5 "convenience" trim in auto is $31K before tax and is a good value.  Obviously the manual would offer a better driving experience considering it's only 170 hp.  Surmising most Forester drivers could not describe their vehicles AWD system. 

Manual Transmission Subaru's come with a Viscous coupling that splits torque 50/50 most of the time.  When slippage is detected, it mechanically locks up and transfers up to 80% of torque to the axle that has traction (think Torsen, without the limitations).

Automatic and CVT Subaru's have a Variable Torque Distribution system (VTD) that splits power 45/55 (auto tranny) or 60/40 (CVT).  Instead of a viscous center diff, it uses a hydraulic clutch and planetary diff.  When slippage is detected by the sensors, it can lock torque distribution to 50/50

Symmetrical  is old technology by today's standards.

https://youtu.be/E9lK3BvIHEg

[lebowski]

Sorry, just seeing this now.

Mine was a 1998.  A good friend of mine that we hang out with quite a bit had a 2008(?) obw and the hg went on it early last year.  It had less than 200k and was well maintained, as was mine. 

The thing that irked me most about my incident is that it left us stranded ironically during a heavy snowstorm.  I had a buddy with me at the time and I was waxing on about how well it performed in the snow, then "ah, what's that smell...ah fak!"  That was the second time it left me stranded.  The first time was when the alternator failed during a long drive home one night from cottage country.  I also had three failed wheel bearing and a handful of other minor issues.  All were covered under warranty except for the hg.  The hvac was terrible in that car was well.  I had a Ford Taurus wagon as a company car at the time and never had one problem with that, and the hvac in that was the most powerful of any car I've owned even to this day.

Despite all the troubles I had with my obw I still enjoyed driving it and much more so than the Taurus wagon.  It just did everything so well and had a good solid feel to it on any kind of road surface.  I chalked most of my problems down to a bad unit, except for the hg failure.  I actually considered buying another Subaru and an obw was the finalist last time we bought.  We didn't even consider a Subaru this time mainly because of the questionable hg.

Hey KDS2K, thanks a lot  Oof, getting stranded like that could not have been fun. Knock on wood no HG failure here yet, but i understand it's still a possibility. The HVAC unit has been generally good, though the defrost/fogger seemed to be weakening last winter. Overall, my impression of these cars has been tremendous bang-for-the-buck AWD performance, but they'll never be accused of being "overbuilt".

[johngenx]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but I'll put it here - this is when Baruth's writing is fun - no ego crap...

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a33393/the-4000-car-that-all-the-millionaires-love/

[Noto]

That was a wholly uninformative review of the car.  It was a rant about how the writer doesn't understand the illogical habits of many residents of mountain-towns (income notwithstanding).

I LOVED IT!  The #BLESSED line sealed the deal for me.