Topic: Test Drive: 2017 Subaru Forester 2.5i Touring w/Tech Package

[dirtyjeffer]

But even within that mix there are variations.  For example, the Audi S3 has quattro.  But not really.  It is a highly advanced Haldex system with instant slip and grip.  There are jewels here but there is also a lot of coal within same brands with watered down AWD.  If you know what I mean...

sure, but those systems are not really "slip/grip", as they are always on...the 4 wheels are always being powered, even if it is biased at one end...in any case, i don't think anyone is debating the AWD system from Subaru...everyone agrees it is solid...the issues seem to be related to the engine...my point is simply that many other brands now offer very good AWD systems, without the potential for a serious engine issue down the road.

[rrocket]

As we are considering one, see lots of Foresters around Edmonton now. But this is not reassuring!

Both our CRV and Vibe are pretty much 'change the oil and go' vehicles.

We had a 2002 Honda Odyssey purchased new.  Within 30K KM's the transmission failed.  I mean done.  There ended up being a massive recall on those models (including the Acura's with the same transmission).  I believe something like 650K units were affected.  The recall involved replacing the transmission.  Once replaced, it stayed true until 230K KM when some guy t-boned us and the van was a write off.  I am okay with issues if they are handled with priority by the manufacturer but my point is that any brand can have issues.

Not sticking up for Subaru in any way but I too see a lot of high mileage subaru's on the road.  Apart form some HG issues, perhaps the rest of the cars are wonderfully robust.  But I am not actually sure on that.  I never had one issue with my STI but others have.

Turbo failures seem to be quite common too.

[johngenx]

As we are considering one, see lots of Foresters around Edmonton now. But this is not reassuring!

Both our CRV and Vibe are pretty much 'change the oil and go' vehicles.

We had a 2002 Honda Odyssey purchased new.  Within 30K KM's the transmission failed.  I mean done.  There ended up being a massive recall on those models (including the Acura's with the same transmission).  I believe something like 650K units were affected.  The recall involved replacing the transmission.  Once replaced, it stayed true until 230K KM when some guy t-boned us and the van was a write off.  I am okay with issues if they are handled with priority by the manufacturer but my point is that any brand can have issues.

Not sticking up for Subaru in any way but I too see a lot of high mileage subaru's on the road.  Apart form some HG issues, perhaps the rest of the cars are wonderfully robust.  But I am not actually sure on that.  I never had one issue with my STI but others have.

Turbo failures seem to be quite common too.

2.5 turbos are a weak point, no doubt. The old 2.0 units are laggy beasts, but pretty robust.

[ArticSteve]

Doesn't the Forester come with two different AWD systems depending on transmission choice?  The current Forester is a huge seller, Subaru's leader I assume.  It's today's family station wagon.  Since the OS has a SUBIE dealer I see a lot, the majority been in the bottom trims.  The 2.5 "convenience" trim in auto is $31K before tax and is a good value.  Obviously the manual would offer a better driving experience considering it's only 170 hp.  Surmising most Forester drivers could not describe their vehicles AWD system.



   

[Ex-airbalancer]

In southern Ontario , it really does not matter what system you have  unless you are in a rally

[Robin2]

It's always funny seeing the Subaru bashers talking about head gaskets or turbo failures......

Is Subaru perfect....... hell no.....  but would I buy one.... yes and just got my 3rd Subaru - 2018 wrx.  I've been driving Subaru since 1999 and will always have one unless I go with full electric car down the road.

headgasket issue goes back to the original 2.5 DOHC in the 96-98 legacy/outaback and 98 impreza rs or Forester.  These were "FOR sure" going to fail and they did regularly.  The SOHC 2.5 in 99+ impreza RS or forester could have the issue but not a guarantee.

Turbo failures?  that's pretty rare....  there was some housing cracking on the STi VF39's but easy fix.  The original 02-05wrx with TD04 turbo would last forever.  Very common to see these cars with over 300k kms and very minimal maintenance.

A good friend of mine just retired his 2006 Sti with 420k kms.  only thing he did other regular maintenance was headgasket at 320k kms.  This was a stage 2 car (tune / exhaust).

Subaru is still a VERY small player in the car industry.  In Canada, Subaru only sells about 55000 cars yearly.  That's the equivalent in sales for Honda Civic or Elantra.

[NormT]

Honda, aside from Acura  MDX SH-AWD, are about the worst in AWD testing.  This RDX couldn't get itself off the rollers!

 

[dirtyjeffer]

But even within that mix there are variations.  For example, the Audi S3 has quattro.  But not really.  It is a highly advanced Haldex system with instant slip and grip.  There are jewels here but there is also a lot of coal within same brands with watered down AWD.  If you know what I mean...

sure, but those systems are not really "slip/grip", as they are always on...the 4 wheels are always being powered, even if it is biased at one end...in any case, i don't think anyone is debating the AWD system from Subaru...everyone agrees it is solid...the issues seem to be related to the engine...my point is simply that many other brands now offer very good AWD systems, without the potential for a serious engine issue down the road.

I see your point(s) but with specific reference to the S3, no, it isn't an 'always on' AWD system.  It defaults to 100% front in most conditions and then throws up to 70% to the rear if needed.  Seamlessly, of course and quite a remarkable tchnological achievement at that but not the same as say, the STI's system that always has power routed to the front and back.

As far as potential engine issues in the future, we must not inclue the Germans in that mix.  Even with my car some peculiar is showing up.....

i'll concede the German stuff, as i'm not as well versed on it, but my point was simply that Subaru isn't the only one with an "always on" system...regarding the issues with your car, what did you expect?...it is an FGC. 

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Doesn't the Forester come with two different AWD systems depending on transmission choice?  The current Forester is a huge seller, Subaru's leader I assume.  It's today's family station wagon.  Since the OS has a SUBIE dealer I see a lot, the majority been in the bottom trims.  The 2.5 "convenience" trim in auto is $31K before tax and is a good value.  Obviously the manual would offer a better driving experience considering it's only 170 hp.  Surmising most Forester drivers could not describe their vehicles AWD system. 

Manual Transmission Subaru's come with a Viscous coupling that splits torque 50/50 most of the time.  When slippage is detected, it mechanically locks up and transfers up to 80% of torque to the axle that has traction (think Torsen, without the limitations).

Automatic and CVT Subaru's have a Variable Torque Distribution system (VTD) that splits power 45/55 (auto tranny) or 60/40 (CVT).  Instead of a viscous center diff, it uses a hydraulic clutch and planetary diff.  When slippage is detected by the sensors, it can lock torque distribution to 50/50

[Mike]

Doesn't the Forester come with two different AWD systems depending on transmission choice?  The current Forester is a huge seller, Subaru's leader I assume.  It's today's family station wagon.  Since the OS has a SUBIE dealer I see a lot, the majority been in the bottom trims.  The 2.5 "convenience" trim in auto is $31K before tax and is a good value.  Obviously the manual would offer a better driving experience considering it's only 170 hp.  Surmising most Forester drivers could not describe their vehicles AWD system. 

Manual Transmission Subaru's come with a Viscous coupling that splits torque 50/50 most of the time.  When slippage is detected, it mechanically locks up and transfers up to 80% of torque to the axle that has traction (think Torsen, without the limitations).

Automatic and CVT Subaru's have a Variable Torque Distribution system (VTD) that splits power 45/55 (auto tranny) or 60/40 (CVT).  Instead of a viscous center diff, it uses a hydraulic clutch and planetary diff.  When slippage is detected by the sensors, it can lock torque distribution to 50/50

Close, the 45/55 is a CVT as well. The one found in the WRX.

[Robin2]

Congrats on the new purchase!.. Did you get the Recaros?

I purchased the base version.  at under $30k msrp, hard to beat. 

Coming from 11wrx, new 15+ are way better. 

[JG20]

Congrats on the new purchase!.. Did you get the Recaros?

I purchased the base version.  at under $30k msrp, hard to beat. 

Coming from 11wrx, new 15+ are way better.

Congrats! 

[lebowski]

It's always funny seeing the Subaru bashers talking about head gaskets or turbo failures......

Is Subaru perfect....... hell no.....  but would I buy one.... yes and just got my 3rd Subaru - 2018 wrx.  I've been driving Subaru since 1999 and will always have one unless I go with full electric car down the road.

headgasket issue goes back to the original 2.5 DOHC in the 96-98 legacy/outaback and 98 impreza rs or Forester.  These were "FOR sure" going to fail and they did regularly.  The SOHC 2.5 in 99+ impreza RS or forester could have the issue but not a guarantee.

Turbo failures?  that's pretty rare....  there was some housing cracking on the STi VF39's but easy fix.  The original 02-05wrx with TD04 turbo would last forever.  Very common to see these cars with over 300k kms and very minimal maintenance.

A good friend of mine just retired his 2006 Sti with 420k kms.  only thing he did other regular maintenance was headgasket at 320k kms.  This was a stage 2 car (tune / exhaust).

Subaru is still a VERY small player in the car industry.  In Canada, Subaru only sells about 55000 cars yearly.  That's the equivalent in sales for Honda Civic or Elantra.

Congrats on the new WRX 

As has been discussed, the '05-'09 Legacy GT had a well-documented problem with their single-scroll turbo. It was a defect and it was common. Subaru is a great car company, but you're right,  they're not perfect, and it's good to call them out on it.

[Ex-airbalancer]

Standard issues glasses for Subaru owner

[PJungnitsch]

Them Lexus people is pretty uppity

[JG20]

Lots of anecdotal evidence but apparently..

"98 percent of all Subaru vehicles sold in Canada over the last 10 years are still on the road today"

https://www.subaru-global.com/news/news_20160310_800.html

[NormT]

Lots of anecdotal evidence but apparently..

"98 percent of all Subaru vehicles sold in Canada over the last 10 years are still on the road today"

https://www.subaru-global.com/news/news_20160310_800.html

Could be said about allot car companies today as there really are not any bad cars built compared to decades ago.

They lived...but not this one in an Impreza.  That road is 35 mph but who knows their closing speeds as that Impreza lost the battle against the much heavier Pilot.

http://www.news5cleveland.com/news/man-dies-at-the-scene-three-children-injured-after-head-on-crash-in-parma

[dirtyjeffer]

Lots of anecdotal evidence but apparently..

"98 percent of all Subaru vehicles sold in Canada over the last 10 years are still on the road today"

https://www.subaru-global.com/news/news_20160310_800.html

meh...those quotes have been around for years, from many different brands (Toyota, etc)...pretty much every brand can say the same thing...yes, even FCA    ...it's more marketing than it is anything else.

[lebowski]

Lots of anecdotal evidence but apparently..

"98 percent of all Subaru vehicles sold in Canada over the last 10 years are still on the road today"

https://www.subaru-global.com/news/news_20160310_800.html

Yup, great cars overall.

For more purely anecdotal evidence, this was my first interaction with Kon, of Kon Auto, the local indie Subie mechanic:

Me: Hi, do you guys rebuild turbos? I think I blew mine.

Kon: yeah sure, what year?

Me: 2006 legacy turbo

Kon: (laughing) oh that's a bad year. defective turbo. Stupid!

Me: (laughing too) Yeah i think you're right. So can you fix it?

Kon: Yeah sure, bring it in.

[JG20]

Lots of anecdotal evidence but apparently..

"98 percent of all Subaru vehicles sold in Canada over the last 10 years are still on the road today"

https://www.subaru-global.com/news/news_20160310_800.html

meh...those quotes have been around for years, from many different brands (Toyota, etc)...pretty much every brand can say the same thing...yes, even FCA    ...it's more marketing than it is anything else.

I posted that just so potential future buyers don't think "ZOMG, it's a Subaru, HG or turbo's gonna fail..."  It would be interesting to see percentages over 20 yrs.  That's probably where you would see a large drop in FCA 

I dunno WTF Norm's posting about.  Don't know many compacts that would win over a Pilot