Topic: Test Drive: 2017 Mercedes-AMG C63 S Coupe

[CanuckS2K]

We have a wicked new road course here.  I can't take the Miata on it thanks to no roll protection.   

I'd have that Camaro there every day the track was open.  Also, we do have some super-sweet roads that, at the right time of day/year, I could use that car.

I sat in a 1LE-SS and found it acceptable, interior wise.

The Germans have also taken away something I REALLY want in my performance car: DIY shifting.  GM still lets me have huge power and three pedals.  Win.  I get no one wants a manual Mercedes, but I want a manual performance car.

Yep, agreed.  I honestly can't ever imagine having a performance oriented car without a manual.  It's pretty sad that even if I was extremely wealthy I would have very limited choices buying an exotic with three pedals.   

[CanuckS2K]

And oh yeah, I too can't stand the current trend with these tacked on iPad screens.  Doesn't look even remotely integrated with the rest of the interior IMO.  Looks more like a tacky aftermarket thought.   

[johngenx]

Porsche sold the 911R out in nanoseconds because it's an instant classic collectible car.  Why?  Manual transmission and performance focus.  I get that the GT3 is quicker with the PDK, but it seems people still want three pedal cars.  I don't want a manual in my stuck-in-traffic daily driver SUV.  But in my fun-car, you betcha.

I get that the AMG is a "daily driver that can have a little fun now and then" car - but really, if I'm going to have that type of car, why get a possibly temperamental FGC?  I'll get a Lexus and skip the trips to the service department, thanks.  RC-F ticks all the boxes for me in the GT-coupe category.

[mmret]

Then no need to bother with an AMG C-Class, either.  Just get a nicely equipped C300 and be comfy.

False dichotomy. I'm pretty sure the difference in day to day driving between a C63 and a C300 is pretty noticeable, and the extra performance is both fun and usable. Agree with RR here.

The Z06 is a different sort of beast. You can and should daily a C63. A Z06 ... eh.... its a track thing.

[rrocket]

Porsche sold the 911R out in nanoseconds because it's an instant classic collectible car.  Why?  Manual transmission and performance focus.  I get that the GT3 is quicker with the PDK, but it seems people still want three pedal cars.  I don't want a manual in my stuck-in-traffic daily driver SUV.  But in my fun-car, you betcha.

I get that the AMG is a "daily driver that can have a little fun now and then" car - but really, if I'm going to have that type of car, why get a possibly temperamental FGC?  I'll get a Lexus and skip the trips to the service department, thanks.  RC-F ticks all the boxes for me in the GT-coupe category.

It certainly depends on the car.  I'd not drive a GT-R or GT3 merely because of the autobox.  And on those cars, the engine pulls so hard so fast, a stick would actually impede performance.

Like I said..it depends on the car.

[CanuckS2K]

Porsche sold the 911R out in nanoseconds because it's an instant classic collectible car.  Why?  Manual transmission and performance focus.  I get that the GT3 is quicker with the PDK, but it seems people still want three pedal cars.  I don't want a manual in my stuck-in-traffic daily driver SUV.  But in my fun-car, you betcha.

I get that the AMG is a "daily driver that can have a little fun now and then" car - but really, if I'm going to have that type of car, why get a possibly temperamental FGC?  I'll get a Lexus and skip the trips to the service department, thanks.  RC-F ticks all the boxes for me in the GT-coupe category.

It certainly depends on the car.  I'd not drive a GT-R or GT3 merely because of the autobox.  And on those cars, the engine pulls so hard so fast, a stick would actually impede performance.

Like I said..it depends on the car.

Personal preference of course, but I couldn't give a flying fvck how much better the performance is of an auto over manual.  Means absolutely nothing to me.  Three pedals will always be more enjoyable to me, even it's a mediocre gearbox.

[rrocket]

Porsche sold the 911R out in nanoseconds because it's an instant classic collectible car.  Why?  Manual transmission and performance focus.  I get that the GT3 is quicker with the PDK, but it seems people still want three pedal cars.  I don't want a manual in my stuck-in-traffic daily driver SUV.  But in my fun-car, you betcha.

I get that the AMG is a "daily driver that can have a little fun now and then" car - but really, if I'm going to have that type of car, why get a possibly temperamental FGC?  I'll get a Lexus and skip the trips to the service department, thanks.  RC-F ticks all the boxes for me in the GT-coupe category.

It certainly depends on the car.  I'd not drive a GT-R or GT3 merely because of the autobox.  And on those cars, the engine pulls so hard so fast, a stick would actually impede performance.

Like I said..it depends on the car.

Personal preference of course, but I couldn't give a flying fvck how much better the performance is of an auto over manual.  Means absolutely nothing to me.  Three pedals will always be more enjoyable to me, even it's a mediocre gearbox.

Oooo...I can't tolerate a mediocre gearbox.  I'd especially not be able to tolerate one after driving an S2000.   

But for many (me included) if I'm buying a beast, I want all the performance I can.  It's the reason I chose the auto in my Supra for example.

[Fobroader]

Porsche sold the 911R out in nanoseconds because it's an instant classic collectible car.  Why?  Manual transmission and performance focus.  I get that the GT3 is quicker with the PDK, but it seems people still want three pedal cars.  I don't want a manual in my stuck-in-traffic daily driver SUV.  But in my fun-car, you betcha.

I get that the AMG is a "daily driver that can have a little fun now and then" car - but really, if I'm going to have that type of car, why get a possibly temperamental FGC?  I'll get a Lexus and skip the trips to the service department, thanks.  RC-F ticks all the boxes for me in the GT-coupe category.

It certainly depends on the car.  I'd not drive a GT-R or GT3 merely because of the autobox.  And on those cars, the engine pulls so hard so fast, a stick would actually impede performance.

Like I said..it depends on the car.

Personal preference of course, but I couldn't give a flying fvck how much better the performance is of an auto over manual.  Means absolutely nothing to me.  Three pedals will always be more enjoyable to me, even it's a mediocre gearbox.

I'm with ya on this one. Couldn't imagine have a fun track weapon without three pedals, performance be dammned.

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[CanuckS2K]

Porsche sold the 911R out in nanoseconds because it's an instant classic collectible car.  Why?  Manual transmission and performance focus.  I get that the GT3 is quicker with the PDK, but it seems people still want three pedal cars.  I don't want a manual in my stuck-in-traffic daily driver SUV.  But in my fun-car, you betcha.

I get that the AMG is a "daily driver that can have a little fun now and then" car - but really, if I'm going to have that type of car, why get a possibly temperamental FGC?  I'll get a Lexus and skip the trips to the service department, thanks.  RC-F ticks all the boxes for me in the GT-coupe category.

It certainly depends on the car.  I'd not drive a GT-R or GT3 merely because of the autobox.  And on those cars, the engine pulls so hard so fast, a stick would actually impede performance.

Like I said..it depends on the car.

Personal preference of course, but I couldn't give a flying fvck how much better the performance is of an auto over manual.  Means absolutely nothing to me.  Three pedals will always be more enjoyable to me, even it's a mediocre gearbox.

Oooo...I can't tolerate a mediocre gearbox.  I'd especially not be able to tolerate one after driving an S2000.   

But for many (me included) if I'm buying a beast, I want all the performance I can.  It's the reason I chose the auto in my Supra for example.

But where are you going to use that extra 1 second to 60 (just as an example)?  That's why I don't care about the extra performance.  I'll never need/use it on the street, and I simply prefer rowing my own gears, even with a mediocre gearbox.  I couldn't imagine enjoying driving the S2000 or MR2 anywhere near as much if it had an auto.

[johngenx]

The GT-R would be hard to drive full-on with a manual.  The engine revs so hard in the top half of the rpm range that I can't see how anyone could actually make the 1-2 shift and the 2-3 would be a real challenge.  But it's one a very few cars like that.

I still lust after a real V-8 car with three pedals.  Such a wonderful thing that will probably be extinct in not that long of a time.

[rrocket]

Porsche sold the 911R out in nanoseconds because it's an instant classic collectible car.  Why?  Manual transmission and performance focus.  I get that the GT3 is quicker with the PDK, but it seems people still want three pedal cars.  I don't want a manual in my stuck-in-traffic daily driver SUV.  But in my fun-car, you betcha.

I get that the AMG is a "daily driver that can have a little fun now and then" car - but really, if I'm going to have that type of car, why get a possibly temperamental FGC?  I'll get a Lexus and skip the trips to the service department, thanks.  RC-F ticks all the boxes for me in the GT-coupe category.

It certainly depends on the car.  I'd not drive a GT-R or GT3 merely because of the autobox.  And on those cars, the engine pulls so hard so fast, a stick would actually impede performance.

Like I said..it depends on the car.

Personal preference of course, but I couldn't give a flying fvck how much better the performance is of an auto over manual.  Means absolutely nothing to me.  Three pedals will always be more enjoyable to me, even it's a mediocre gearbox.

Oooo...I can't tolerate a mediocre gearbox.  I'd especially not be able to tolerate one after driving an S2000.   

But for many (me included) if I'm buying a beast, I want all the performance I can.  It's the reason I chose the auto in my Supra for example.

But where are you going to use that extra 1 second to 60 (just as an example)?  That's why I don't care about the extra performance.  I'll never need/use it on the street, and I simply prefer rowing my own gears, even with a mediocre gearbox.  I couldn't imagine enjoying driving the S2000 or MR2 anywhere near as much if it had an auto.

My example is pretty much as Jon states.  You simply couldn't keep up with the gear changes the engine revved so fast.  In the manual cars, it would rev so fast, you couldn't keep up...so that meant shift...blow off valve..boost drop off...lag....back into turbo boost...etc.  Close your eyes and run that scenario through your head and you should be able to see how it might not be as enjoyable.  The manual just wasn't as enjoyable (IMO) when you were caning it (and we all like to cane it!) on a really fast single.  And the few that drove my car mirrored that impression...even a manual die hards like TurboBob, Snowie and GiantJeff.

But as I said initially...for me, it's really car dependent.    Like you, I'd want a manual in an Mr2 or S2000.  Hands down, no brainer.

[Gurgie]

I'm with ya on this one. Couldn't imagine have a fun track weapon without three pedals, performance be dammned.

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Yeah I pretty much felt the same way until I took the GT-3 out on the track last week in Vegas & wholly fack was it a sh!tload of fun still with only 2 pedals. The PDK just bangs off seriously hard upshifts at full throttle & perfect rev matching down shifts. I know I couldn't do as good a job. So for a track weapon I think I'd go with the PDK, but if it's a bit of a daily & occasional HPDE day car, then 3 pedals please. 



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[evil_twin]

IMO the transmission argument boils down to the mission statement of the car.

A GT-R, or crazy modded Supra, or Lambo, or GT2, or Ferrari, or (insert crazy 500+ hp weapon here) are technical marvels aimed at laying down maximum performance on a track.   Makes sense to have a transmission matched to the performance level.  Otherwise...why exactly are you purchasing that performance level?

The 3 pedal argument is for driver engagement (loosely defined) over outright track times.   Cars like a 911, 911S, S2000, mustang/camaro, miata, cayman, and the compact sport sedan class (though only BMW offers one) would seem to fit here.

All of the latter group would be very fun track weapons for 99.99999% of car enthusiasts.   And if, as they claim, they care about engagement over outright performance, then they'd be perfectly happy to "just" drive a 911 S (and not some bonkers GT2 missile).   Regardless of budget.   But that's the rub.  There are rich guys who also like manuals and can't stomach driving such a lowly porsche.   And so you see creations like the 911 R and the return of a manual to the GT3.   Whether it actually makes sense is another question...

I applaud GM for offering so many manuals, but will admit it is somewhat curious in a car like the Z06.   Surely a manual-enthusiast would be content with a Grand Sport and leave the outright maximum performance chasers with their auto Z06 option.

I'd always want the 3 pedal option, but also wouldn't be expecting it to be paired with a 600 hp drivetrain.  Makes no sense.

[Fobroader]

I'm with ya on this one. Couldn't imagine have a fun track weapon without three pedals, performance be dammned.

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Yeah I pretty much felt the same way until I took the GT-3 out on the track last week in Vegas & wholly fack was it a sh!tload of fun still with only 2 pedals. The PDK just bangs off seriously hard upshifts at full throttle & perfect rev matching down shifts. I know I couldn't do as good a job. So for a track weapon I think I'd go with the PDK, but if it's a bit of a daily & occasional HPDE day car, then 3 pedals please. 



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I'm sure the PDK is a technological marvel in every way, shape, or form as is the GT3. I know the GT-R is an absolute nuclear bomb....still, for me to enjoy a car on a track and on a twisty road, gotta have 3 pedals. Saying all of that, if I hit the Lottomax, I will have a GT-R, 911 Turbo S and an AMG GT S coupe in the dream garage slushbox or not. 

[KD]

IMO the transmission argument boils down to the mission statement of the car.

A GT-R, or crazy modded Supra, or Lambo, or GT2, or Ferrari, or (insert crazy 500+ hp weapon here) are technical marvels aimed at laying down maximum performance on a track.   Makes sense to have a transmission matched to the performance level.  Otherwise...why exactly are you purchasing that performance level?

The 3 pedal argument is for driver engagement (loosely defined) over outright track times.   Cars like a 911, 911S, S2000, mustang/camaro, miata, cayman, and the compact sport sedan class (though only BMW offers one) would seem to fit here.

All of the latter group would be very fun track weapons for 99.99999% of car enthusiasts.   And if, as they claim, they care about engagement over outright performance, then they'd be perfectly happy to "just" drive a 911 S (and not some bonkers GT2 missile).   Regardless of budget.   But that's the rub.  There are rich guys who also like manuals and can't stomach driving such a lowly porsche.   And so you see creations like the 911 R and the return of a manual to the GT3.   Whether it actually makes sense is another question...

I applaud GM for offering so many manuals, but will admit it is somewhat curious in a car like the Z06.   Surely a manual-enthusiast would be content with a Grand Sport and leave the outright maximum performance chasers with their auto Z06 option.

I'd always want the 3 pedal option, but also wouldn't be expecting it to be paired with a 600 hp drivetrain.  Makes no sense.

 Well said and pretty well sums up my opinions on this as well.  To me a sports car is not complete without 3 pedals, but I prefer an auto for our main car.  Besides my wife doesn't like a manual tyranny.  Moot point on the 600hp front for me though as I doubt I would ever own something that powerful for the road.