Topic: The Motorcycling Thread

[Arthur Dent]

I had a sketchy clothes peg type thing that worked well for a cruise control function. Easy on a 250cc I guess - just pin it wide open.

[Fobroader]

I'm already looking at the next bike whatever it may be. The only things I want for sure, more power and cruise control.

... Easy, goldwing

I don't need a cabin cruiser as of yet

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[rrocket]

I'm already looking at the next bike whatever it may be. The only things I want for sure, more power and cruise control.

... Easy, goldwing

I don't need a cabin cruiser as of yet

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

FWIW, this is a simple and fantastic motorcycle cruise control easily added to any motorcycle.

https://www.atlasthrottlelock.com/

[Triple Bob]

Anyone here have experience with modern 4 stroke versus 2 stroke dirt bikes?  My last ride on a 4 stroke revealed that the two had come much closer in performance than was the case back in the day.

Each have their pros and cons. Two strokes feel lighter, and are simpler to maintain. If it's something more powerful than a CRF250L/300L then a highly tuned four stroke needs more costly maintenance.

[bridgecity]

4 stroke engines are more complex, so when things go wrong they are more expensive to repair. That said, with 2 strokes you’re mixing gas and if carbureted, playing with carbs. Fuel injected two stroke bikes are a relatively recent tech in dirt bikes with limited manufactures, whereas 4 stroke fuel injection has been the norm since about 2010.

I haven’t ridden a modern 2 stroke. They used to be peaky so the power of a 4 stroke felt great. However that’s not the case as much anymore. I’ve got one our four strokes up for sale right now and wouldn’t mind adding a 2 stroke but we’ll see. I do not want to fiddle with carbs anymore so it would have to be a modern husky/ktm.

[Railton]

Why aren't rotary valve 2 strokes used anymore?
Railton

[blur911]

Why aren't rotary valve 2 strokes used anymore?
Railton

AFAIK, because reed valves are better.
Also packaging, on rotary valves the carb had to be down low beside the crank.  (my RV90 is rotary and has the carb inside the right case)

[rrocket]

Anyone here have experience with modern 4 stroke versus 2 stroke dirt bikes?  My last ride on a 4 stroke revealed that the two had come much closer in performance than was the case back in the day.

Yes. And no.

2 strokes are still king when it comes to power per CC, and there's nothing a 4 stroke can do about that.

In motorsport, 2 strokes and 4 strokes compete against each other.

125cc 2 stroke vs. 250cc 4 stroke

250cc 2 stroke vs 450cc 4 stroke

So per CC, 2 stroke is still king.

Where the 4 strokes have come a long way is the design and engineering. Before, 2 strokes were generally THE competition models and 4 strokes were hobby/trail/recreation models.  Which meant they were heavy, big, not highly tuned, etc

When the AMA and other sanctioning bodies said 2 strokes could compete against 4 strokes in the late 90s, that's when manufacturers threw all the tech at the 4 strokes and made legit competition models.

[rrocket]

Anyone here have experience with modern 4 stroke versus 2 stroke dirt bikes?  My last ride on a 4 stroke revealed that the two had come much closer in performance than was the case back in the day.

Yes. And no.

2 strokes are still king when it comes to power per CC, and there's nothing a 4 stroke can do about that.

In motorsport, 2 strokes and 4 strokes compete against each other.

125cc 2 stroke vs. 250cc 4 stroke

250cc 2 stroke vs 450cc 4 stroke

So per CC, 2 stroke is still king.

Where the 4 strokes have come a long way is the design and engineering. Before, 2 strokes were generally THE competition models and 4 strokes were hobby/trail/recreation models.  Which meant they were heavy, big, not highly tuned, etc

When the AMA and other sanctioning bodies said 2 strokes could compete against 4 strokes in the late 90s, that's when manufacturers threw all the tech at the 4 strokes and made legit competition models.

So how does that translate into day-to-day dirt bike experiences?  I remember the days in which 4 strokes got all the hand-me-down tech.  Back then, 4 strokes were clearly a step behind.  Meanwhile, the 2 strokes were where the R&D budget went. 


But it sounds to me as though the 4 strokes are now no less fun than the 2 strokes.

Yep....they are fantastic and can rip. But the flip side is they can be maintenance whores. Oil changes every 10-15 hours. Frequent valve adjustments, etc Now those are the full on competition models...so perhaps expected for such high performance.

But let's not discount modern 2 strokes. KTMs fuel injected 2 strokes are spectacular. And the powerband is shockingly broad and torquey unlike peaky 2 strokes of years past. And they work very, very well at darn near any RPM. You can lug them and they still work smoothly..unheard of in years past.

I think the KTM 300 is the best 2 stroke available today...and probably the finest 2 stroke ever made (right up there with the older 200).

FWIW, it's no secret I love Supermoto bikes. And they rip..especially low in the RPM range. Is magical coming out of a corner still leaned over and the bike having rough grunt to loft the tire. Would have bought the new KTM 450 SMR the day it came out of it were street legal.

https://www.ktm.com/en-ca/models/supermoto/ktm-450-smr-2021.html

[Triple Bob]

As Ron says, my KTM is a fuel and oil injected modern two stroke, and being 300cc has decent low down torque. It's been great so far, fingers crossed.

Maintenance is fairly regular, but nothing too onerous.

[bridgecity]

Yep....they are fantastic and can rip. But the flip side is they can be maintenance whores. Oil changes every 10-15 hours. Frequent valve adjustments, etc Now those are the full on competition models...

Just to add to Rrocket’s info, they are  generally maintenance whores if you’re racing. Oil changes are minor in my opinion (you gotta change oil in the two strokes also). You may never have to adjust valves if only trail riding. Even for the competition models (that aren’t competing).

[ktm525]

I ride both all the time. Despite huge advances in 4 stoke packaging by the euro makers the 2 strokes are still the arborist weapon of choice. Get  one of these  brapppers out in the open and the 4 strokes start to eat their lunch. Different missions.  At least on the KTM's 4 stokes really don't need to have valve adjustments (current model I have checked once and is in spec and have 120 hours on bike). I won't even recheck until the bike is in the 300 hour range OR it becomes hard starting. Other than that the 4 stroke consumes a $10 filter every 25 hours vs the 2 stroker consuming oil) Close enough to a wash. Eventually the 4 stoke may need head work which is more expensive but the 2 stroke will have had 2-3 top ends by that time.

You need both.

I think as the euros continue to tighten regulations that the 2 strokes despite injection will be going away.

[Jaeger]

Update - I am now booked for a course (with a buddy of Jeff's) for mid-August.  This works out fine in terms of timing as I can't upgrade my M1 before then anyway (mandatory waiting period).  With certainty of a course slot, I can now relax and stop pulling out my non-existent hair.

Thanks to everyone for their input and suggestions on a bike purchase.  I'll just STFU about that between now and when I am M2 licensed and can thus secure insurance at normal rates. 

Special shout out to Rob and Jeff for their valued off-forum input, and to Ron for finding me a Trident even though the timing didn't work out.

The takeaway is that it really finally looks like I'll be riding this year, which is all I could really have hoped for.  See you all on two wheels, soonish. 

[Fobroader]

Congrats buddy!! All the best to ya in your two wheel adventure.

[DriverJeff]

Update - I am now booked for a course (with a buddy of Jeff's) for mid-August.  This works out fine in terms of timing as I can't upgrade my M1 before then anyway (mandatory waiting period).  With certainty of a course slot, I can now relax and stop pulling out my non-existent hair.

Thanks to everyone for their input and suggestions on a bike purchase.  I'll just STFU about that between now and when I am M2 licensed and can thus secure insurance at normal rates. 

Special shout out to Rob and Jeff for their valued off-forum input, and to Ron for finding me a Trident even though the timing didn't work out.

The takeaway is that it really finally looks like I'll be riding this year, which is all I could really have hoped for.  See you all on two wheels, soonish. 

    Right on!  So pleased it's coming together.  I can't wait for your next update here. 

[dkaz]

Awesome Jaeger! Have fun.

[Jaeger]

Cheers gents. I'm back to being super-excited about the whole process, instead of super-frustrated. 

[PJungnitsch]

Might actually be a good time to buy, as people see winter coming and get tired of their summer toys

[DriverJeff]

Might actually be a good time to buy, as people see winter coming and get tired of their summer toys

By August, certainly there should be the initial signs of better deals, I'd bet!

[Jaeger]

Might actually be a good time to buy, as people see winter coming and get tired of their summer toys

By August, certainly there should be the initial signs of better deals, I'd bet!

Sounds good to me!