Author Topic: First Drive: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider  (Read 23914 times)

Offline JacobBlack

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2016, 07:21:03 pm »
How come Simon gets to go to San Diego and drive a Fiat Spider, while James has to slum it around Ottawa in a Chevy Equinox?   ;D

Seriously, do you guys draw straws, or is there a running sh*t list for the crappy gigs?   :D

James has done Audis in Germany and plenty of track stuff - he's also racing in the Micra Cup again this year for us. We share the load :)

Offline Brig

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2016, 07:55:28 pm »
I'm just really good at Rock, Paper, Scissors.  :rofl2:

Don't forget Lizard, Spock.   :rofl2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5Q6-wMx-K8

Offline ChaosphereIX

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2016, 08:06:23 pm »
To me this just sounds like a bad idea. You take the bulletproof Miata and stick an iffy Italian engine into it and give it questionable looks....ummmm, nope. I really like the Miata, after seeing this at the Edmonton car show, no thank you.

as I said, the Fiat FIRE engine is not iffy. Look at the stats. It has been in the 500 Abarth for years, as well as the Alfa Mito and Giulietta, etc. Solid engine that can take a lot of punishment.

Some things about Fiat are iffy, like fittings and electrics, but not this engine.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 08:14:40 pm by ChaosphereIX »
If driving an Alfa does not restore vitality to your soul, then just pass the hospital and park at the morgue to save everyone time.

Now drives a Jaaaaaaag...and thus will not pay for anything during an outing...but it is OK, because....I drive a Jaaaaaag.

Offline rrocket

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2016, 08:10:56 pm »
To me this just sounds like a bad idea. You take the bulletproof Miata and stick an iffy Italian engine into it and give it questionable looks....ummmm, nope. I really like the Miata, after seeing this at the Edmonton car show, no thank you.

as I said, the Fiat engine is not iffy. Look at the stats.

What stats?  What Euros consider "reliable" is a far, far cry from what is reliable in North America.
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline ChaosphereIX

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2016, 08:29:21 pm »
To me this just sounds like a bad idea. You take the bulletproof Miata and stick an iffy Italian engine into it and give it questionable looks....ummmm, nope. I really like the Miata, after seeing this at the Edmonton car show, no thank you.

as I said, the Fiat engine is not iffy. Look at the stats.

What stats?  What Euros consider "reliable" is a far, far cry from what is reliable in North America.

not going to get into a reliability war here, the stats are out there don't have time to go searching sorry...is there a NA engine reliability survey for the brand new=-ish Fiat 500 Abarth? Havent seen one myself. I have anecdotal evidence from the Italian Car Owners Club, where friends in 500 Abarths have tuned their engines way past 200hp, and they have yet to skip a beat over the years and 100K+ later, as they were DDs.

...and just know that I caned a 500 Abarth in the hot Italian summer for two weeks flat, almost WOT all the time, and it never went wrong - oh and it had 40,000km on it already. Now that MUST surpass many of your preconceived notions considering Italian engines - as it should have blown up many times over, apparently.

The little Fiat wont go wrong, the FIRE engine is solid. There is no reason to worry.

But of course that will change no minds, and everyone will constantly say "dunno about that Italian engine, better get extended warranty / lease it / not even consider it because it MUST go wrong within a week." Sometimes the stigmatization in the auto industry is really present, with little continued basis for it.

Oh and did I mention that my 20 year old Alfa engine has never missed a beat except for an alternator that died from old age? Not once, and it has been driven hard its entire life [past owner and me].

Offline rrocket

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
« Reply #45 on: June 16, 2016, 08:54:54 pm »
To me this just sounds like a bad idea. You take the bulletproof Miata and stick an iffy Italian engine into it and give it questionable looks....ummmm, nope. I really like the Miata, after seeing this at the Edmonton car show, no thank you.

as I said, the Fiat engine is not iffy. Look at the stats.

What stats?  What Euros consider "reliable" is a far, far cry from what is reliable in North America.

not going to get into a reliability war here, the stats are out there don't have time to go searching sorry...is there a NA engine reliability survey for the brand new=-ish Fiat 500 Abarth? Havent seen one myself. I have anecdotal evidence from the Italian Car Owners Club, where friends in 500 Abarths have tuned their engines way past 200hp, and they have yet to skip a beat over the years and 100K+ later, as they were DDs.

...and just know that I caned a 500 Abarth in the hot Italian summer for two weeks flat, almost WOT all the time, and it never went wrong - oh and it had 40,000km on it already. Now that MUST surpass many of your preconceived notions considering Italian engines - as it should have blown up many times over, apparently.

The little Fiat wont go wrong, the FIRE engine is solid. There is no reason to worry.

But of course that will change no minds, and everyone will constantly say "dunno about that Italian engine, better get extended warranty / lease it / not even consider it because it MUST go wrong within a week." Sometimes the stigmatization in the auto industry is really present, with little continued basis for it.

Oh and did I mention that my 20 year old Alfa engine has never missed a beat except for an alternator that died from old age? Not once, and it has been driven hard its entire life [past owner and me].

That engine was also available in the early Dart's IIRC...and one magazine/website had the turbo destroy itself.  And I just checked the Dodge Dart forums.  And there are issues with that engine...unless the posters are lying.  One of the first ones I looked at was titled "turbo failure".

But heck..I'm not sure there's anything to this.  I mean..if your 20 year old Alfa's engine is fine, that all future Alfa engines should be great!   ;)

Like I said...peeps in Euroland tend to be more tolerant of issues....or as they call it..."character".   :rofl2:

And just so you think I'm not piling on...I think I'd rather have the turbo engine......just because it would be more fun to mod.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 08:57:51 pm by rrocket »

Offline neil

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
« Reply #46 on: June 16, 2016, 09:11:35 pm »
Is the autobox really a FCA part?  I have a hard time picturing a FWD transaxle from the Dart being used in a RWD roadster.
Probably just the core of the transmission, torque converter and the gearbox put into a new case.



Car and Driver says this:

Quote
The six-speed automatic is an Aisin unit, similar to the one that has been used in the MX-5 for several years.

And this link states the Dart 6 speed is a Powertech.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Chrysler_transmissions

And this one says it's built by Hyundai.

http://www.dart-mouth.com/engines.html

This article says
Quote
used in the Dodge Dart, Fiat 500L and Fiat 500X.
[/b], but the X uses the ZF 9 speed.....

The automatic in the Fiat 124 is definitely an FCA-sourced Aisin unit.

And the Fiat presenters certainly said it's the same as used in the Dart and 500L, and they also mentioned another Fiat product when they made this statement. I was furiously scribbling notes and missed the last one, and when I asked for clarification the 500X was mentioned, but not by the same person as rattled off the initial list.

But yeah, the 500X autobox is a nine-speed, so that's an error -- I'm not sure how I missed that.

As for the Dart, it does appear that it uses (or at least used?) a Powertech unit, but I can only report what I hear, and this was from the horse's mouth so to speak. Possibly, as tpl mentioned, it's only the guts of the transmission that are the same, and for the Dart the guts are assembled by Powertech into a FWD case, while in the 124 they're assembled by Aisin into a RWD case?

At any rate, I've asked the editor to fix it for clarity, and to delete the two referenced vehicles whose transmissions are either uncertain or incorrect.

Well FCA-sourced Aisin unit probably means, as it has the exact same ratios as the Miata Aisin box, it's the same transmission with a different bell housing to mate to the 1.4, and has a Mopar part number.

Offline ChaosphereIX

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
« Reply #47 on: June 16, 2016, 09:13:54 pm »
To me this just sounds like a bad idea. You take the bulletproof Miata and stick an iffy Italian engine into it and give it questionable looks....ummmm, nope. I really like the Miata, after seeing this at the Edmonton car show, no thank you.

as I said, the Fiat engine is not iffy. Look at the stats.

What stats?  What Euros consider "reliable" is a far, far cry from what is reliable in North America.

not going to get into a reliability war here, the stats are out there don't have time to go searching sorry...is there a NA engine reliability survey for the brand new=-ish Fiat 500 Abarth? Havent seen one myself. I have anecdotal evidence from the Italian Car Owners Club, where friends in 500 Abarths have tuned their engines way past 200hp, and they have yet to skip a beat over the years and 100K+ later, as they were DDs.

...and just know that I caned a 500 Abarth in the hot Italian summer for two weeks flat, almost WOT all the time, and it never went wrong - oh and it had 40,000km on it already. Now that MUST surpass many of your preconceived notions considering Italian engines - as it should have blown up many times over, apparently.

The little Fiat wont go wrong, the FIRE engine is solid. There is no reason to worry.

But of course that will change no minds, and everyone will constantly say "dunno about that Italian engine, better get extended warranty / lease it / not even consider it because it MUST go wrong within a week." Sometimes the stigmatization in the auto industry is really present, with little continued basis for it.

Oh and did I mention that my 20 year old Alfa engine has never missed a beat except for an alternator that died from old age? Not once, and it has been driven hard its entire life [past owner and me].

That engine was also available in the early Dart's IIRC...and one magazine/website had the turbo destroy itself.  And I just checked the Dodge Dart forums.  And there are issues with that engine...unless the posters are lying.  One of the first ones I looked at was titled "turbo failure".

But heck..I'm not sure there's anything to this.  I mean..if your 20 year old Alfa's engine is fine, that all future Alfa engines should be great!   ;)

Like I said...peeps in Euroland tend to be more tolerant of issues....or as they call it..."character".   :rofl2:

And just so you think I'm not piling on...I think I'd rather have the turbo engine......just because it would be more fun to mod.

fair comments, didn't make the connection with the Dart - I obviously dont hang out on their forums so was unaware. Just in my "more than the average" immersion in Italian cars [in NA and in Europe], never heard about any issues with the FIRE engine other than blown turbos - but they were pushing excessive amounts of boost for well over 200hp with MBCs etc. IIRC one also had an overheating issue, but that was due to a sticky thermostat.

Still, of course there should be caution deployed when considering this Fiat, but not any more than, say, a Ford, Subaru, or a Mazda itself. Am I saying the engine will never go wrong? No, despite my obvious bias and fanboyism  :-[ But am I saying that you should not immediately dismiss the Fiat because of it's Italian engine? Yes, yes I am.

...and yes, the 1.4T is really fun to mod, it has a very tough bottom end and responds very well to tunes and bolt-ons.

Offline rrocket

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
« Reply #48 on: June 16, 2016, 09:19:48 pm »


Still, of course there should be caution deployed when considering this Fiat, but not any more than, say, a Ford, Subaru, or a Mazda itself. Am I saying the engine will never go wrong?

Don't get too crazy.  You do know that in every reliability study from Consumer Report to JD Power to..well anyone...Fiat in North America finishes at the VERY bottom of the list.  Not close to the bottom...THE bottom.

That being said...the fact that this car is mostly Japanese should make it the most reliable Fiat every made!!   ;D

Offline johngenx

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
« Reply #49 on: June 16, 2016, 09:24:04 pm »
Mazda's had it's own quality issues - but when it comes to mechanicals they're usually stout and well-sorted.  We have a pretty decent Mazda dealer here, so that's a plus.

Offline Triple Bob

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
« Reply #50 on: June 16, 2016, 10:33:42 pm »
I'd get this over the Mazda any day.

And where's a video of the sound, where are we, the 90's?

You ever tried to capture decent driving audio when solo (for our outlet)? #difficult
Having said that, it's something we're working on.

Would a good quality GoPro with a suction cup mount be good enough?? I've seen some videos online filmed with GoPros and the sound is actually decent.

Only if you remember to bring along the skeleton back, because GoPro's are pretty awful for sound when in the full water-proof case.

And Jacob, Andy and I will be arguing over who's responsible for the time suck that is processing/editing video and audio files. :o

I have the hero session (no case required) and the sound is pretty good in the wind.  Processing/editing, yes I know it's a pain, but in this day and age I'd say video is becoming a must.


Choosing a car based on reliability is like choosing a wife based solely because she is punctual. There is more to it than that...

Offline rrocket

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
« Reply #51 on: June 16, 2016, 10:42:26 pm »
I'd get this over the Mazda any day.

And where's a video of the sound, where are we, the 90's?

You ever tried to capture decent driving audio when solo (for our outlet)? #difficult
Having said that, it's something we're working on.

Would a good quality GoPro with a suction cup mount be good enough?? I've seen some videos online filmed with GoPros and the sound is actually decent.

Only if you remember to bring along the skeleton back, because GoPro's are pretty awful for sound when in the full water-proof case.

And Jacob, Andy and I will be arguing over who's responsible for the time suck that is processing/editing video and audio files. :o

I have the hero session (no case required) and the sound is pretty good in the wind.  Processing/editing, yes I know it's a pain, but in this day and age I'd say video is becoming a must.

I agree, Bob.  We aren't asking for leading edge video car tests here.  Just something...anything...to stay competitive and relevant to other websites.

And as far as sound goes, most serious guys with a GoPros who does blogging/tests/car/bike videos simply use a Zoom H2N or H4N.  Even dropped in a coat pocket on a motorcycle, the sound is many, many times better than a GoPro.


**EDIT**  This video is done with a simple GoPro and an H4N in his pocket. Nothing else.  Oh...Nuda 990R!!  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j09FoESIaLw
« Last Edit: June 16, 2016, 10:48:33 pm by rrocket »

Offline JacobBlack

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
« Reply #52 on: June 16, 2016, 10:53:47 pm »
Easy with the pile-on guys. We've heard you and we're working on it.

Offline rrocket

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
« Reply #53 on: June 16, 2016, 10:55:21 pm »
Easy with the pile-on guys.

That was piling on?  Sheesh....a touch more sensitive than your usual self today, eh?   ;)

I guess you must be lucky to have the gentlest piling on people in the e-world!   :rofl2:

Offline neil

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
« Reply #54 on: June 16, 2016, 10:56:04 pm »
It's constructive criticism. If it was anything but we'd just leave and not come back.

Offline JacobBlack

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
« Reply #55 on: June 16, 2016, 10:58:23 pm »
I'm being glib guys, "we've heard you, we're working on it was the message", the "pile-on" bit was the joke... #sensitivity :D

Offline rrocket

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
« Reply #56 on: June 16, 2016, 10:59:11 pm »
I'm being glib guys, we've heard you, we're working on it was the message, the "pile-on" bit was the joke... #sensitivity :D

I can never tell with you.... :rofl:

Offline JacobBlack

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
« Reply #57 on: June 16, 2016, 11:11:51 pm »
I'm being glib guys, we've heard you, we're working on it was the message, the "pile-on" bit was the joke... #sensitivity :D

I can never tell with you.... :rofl:

I'm Australian - it's always a joke. :)

Offline neil

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
« Reply #58 on: June 17, 2016, 12:42:08 am »
Here's a crazy thought just now looking through the photos..... I wish the wheels were smaller...

Offline rrocket

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Re: First Drive: 2017 Fiat 124 Spider
« Reply #59 on: June 17, 2016, 01:03:03 am »
Here's a crazy thought just now looking through the photos..... I wish the wheels were smaller...

I too thought something looked funny with the wheels.  But to my eyes, it's the wheel gap...it's HUGE! (or looks huge).