Topic: Test Drive: 2016 Hyundai Sonata PHEV Ultimate

[Autos_Editor]

Business-class electron sipper.
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[ChaosphereIX]

Seems very impressive and well thought out, kinda impressed - and no CVT is a big plus. Even looks better than the last gen.

Still, would rather spend that money on the Lancia. But that is just me 

[Jaeger]

Odd that the hybrid Sonatas - in which I have zero interest - have always been the best looking of the model range.

[Rupert]

   Well...I'm very interested in this vehicle but am always confused about the pricing. Now with the combined rebates does this mean an outlay of about $34,000 + tax?

   Are there Generic chargers available and can they be 'Do It Yourself' installed.

[Rupert]

Ok...so I see an adapter is supplied to use with an ordinary domestic 120V GFI. Is a 15amp or 20 amp outlet required. What about the 240V is that special?

I don't know about rough riding over bumps...it's probably no different to any car that I have ever had. But noise is important...to get rid of.

[whaddaiknow]

It's a good looking car, especially in this colour. Even elegant. Great EV range. Solid effort from Hyundai.
 

[Blueprint]

Ok...so I see an adapter is supplied to use with an ordinary domestic 120V GFI. Is a 15amp or 20 amp outlet required. What about the 240V is that special?

On 120V, just like for every EV, this car will need a circuit with at least 15 amps (this is what I used at home). The 240V option cuts charging time by half, plus you don't have to take the mobile charger in and out of the trunk every time; with a permanent 240V home charger, the SAE nozzle comes from your wall, not the trunk. If you live in Ontario, you're getting so much free $$ from the government that it's not worth it to DIY. The gvt rebate is tied to procuring & installing through a legit electrician.

[valuator]

It's a very attractive value proposition in Ontario with the rebates.  Not so much in NB.

I have a 40km round trip commute and most of my other driving is short distances.  I could probably go a month without buying fuel....

[mixmanmash]

It's a very attractive value proposition in Ontario with the rebates.  Not so much in NB.

I have a 40km round trip commute and most of my other driving is short distances.  I could probably go a month without buying fuel....

Same.  My daily commuting involves 32km total.  I can charge at work also and could likely go a long time before filling up gas.

[Rupert]

   The stupid thing is that there are indeed a lot of folk who could benefit from these things...especially so retirees, seniors who like me have small annual mileages to report. The EV alone capacity is fine and indeed gas station visits would be few indeed. The problem is that the cost of all of these is prohibitive versus any savings on small mileage. We would never make the extra layout back.
   This is the challenge for the auto industry...to produce something at a regular affordable cost that will fill the large space here. The first one to do this will run riot over the rivals. A comfortable seat would be nice but we don't need Golden Bum cheek or whatever the current fad lingo is now. Just provide plugs so that folk can buy their own toys...or not... and our senior cheeks don't need warming. We are tough and know when to wear a coat.
   The idea is to get bum cheeks into seats here and reduce gas usage whilst using surplus electricity at off peak time and the vehicles to do this "do not" have to be full electric with no back-up.
   

[ChaosphereIX]

It's a very attractive value proposition in Ontario with the rebates.  Not so much in NB.

I have a 40km round trip commute and most of my other driving is short distances.  I could probably go a month without buying fuel....

or you could get a Volt too. Last year, mommy Chaos' Volt used about $40 in gas. FOR THE YEAR. Her commute is 40km round trip, almost never, ever used the gas engine [except in winter to keep battery warm].

[Blueprint]

   The stupid thing is that there are indeed a lot of folk who could benefit from these things...especially so retirees, seniors who like me have small annual mileages to report. The EV alone capacity is fine and indeed gas station visits would be few indeed. The problem is that the cost of all of these is prohibitive versus any savings on small mileage. We would never make the extra layout back.
   This is the challenge for the auto industry...to produce something at a regular affordable cost that will fill the large space here. The first one to do this will run riot over the rivals. A comfortable seat would be nice but we don't need Blue Bum cheek or whatever the current fad lingo is now. Just provide plugs so that folk can buy their own toys...or not... and our senior cheeks don't need warming. We are tough and know when to wear a coat.
 

Well said! smart fortwo electric drive was sold as low as $12k after rebates, and the Mitsubishi iMiEV is quite cheap to buy in QC and ON. Neighbour just bought a 2016 C-Max demo with 7,000km (not the plug-in, just the regular hybrid) for $19k.

[ChaosphereIX]

   The stupid thing is that there are indeed a lot of folk who could benefit from these things...especially so retirees, seniors who like me have small annual mileages to report. The EV alone capacity is fine and indeed gas station visits would be few indeed. The problem is that the cost of all of these is prohibitive versus any savings on small mileage. We would never make the extra layout back.
   This is the challenge for the auto industry...to produce something at a regular affordable cost that will fill the large space here. The first one to do this will run riot over the rivals. A comfortable seat would be nice but we don't need Blue Bum cheek or whatever the current fad lingo is now. Just provide plugs so that folk can buy their own toys...or not... and our senior cheeks don't need warming. We are tough and know when to wear a coat.
 

Well said! smart fortwo electric drive was sold as low as $12k after rebates, and the Mitsubishi iMiEV is quite cheap to buy in QC and ON. Neighbour just bought a 2016 C-Max demo with 7,000km (not the plug-in, just the regular hybrid) for $19k.

this is the trend that I have been arguing for for some time now: commuting to and from from work, use your efficient hybrid or EV. Use no gas as you tootle along in traffic. Weekend: let that engine roar in your toy car and find some back roads to let loose. Saves the gas for the cars that need it, and saves the planet from emissions. Win win.

[X-Traction]

From the article:
"Hyundai’s choice was budget-minded; the manufacturer developed its hybrid propulsion system in-house, as opposed to licensing Toyota technology like Ford did."

The fact the auto chattersphere continues to believe this myth probably is because auto journalists, who should know better by now, continue to make this claim.  Ford actually put huge resources and innovative techniques into designing their first hybrid, the Escape Hybrid.

Even those who don't like ev's and hybrids will find the "under the hood" story of the Escape Hybrid's development interesting reading: http://www.fastcompany.com/51547/fords-escape-route

"Ford could have done things more simply. It might, for example, have bought part of Toyota's hybrid system, as Nissan has done. But in November 2002, less than two years from the scheduled start of production, Martens decided to develop the technology in-house. The only Toyota patents that it licensed, he says, were to avoid patent infringement. "That was a defining moment," he says. "It took away the safety net.""

And from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Escape

"The Escape Hybrid uses technology similar to that used in the Toyota Prius. Ford engineers realized their technology may conflict with patents held by Toyota, which led to a 2004 patent-sharing accord between the companies, licensing Ford's use of some of Toyota's hybrid technology in exchange for Toyota's use of some of Ford's diesel and direct-injection engine technology. Ford maintains that Ford received no technical assistance from Toyota in developing the hybrid powertrain, but that some hybrid engine technologies developed by Ford independently were found to be similar to technologies previously patented by Toyota, so licenses were obtained. Aisin Seiki Co. Ltd., a Japanese automotive components supplier belonging to the Toyota Group, supplies the hybrid continuously variable transmission for the Escape Hybrid. While Toyota produces its third-generation Prius transmission in-house, Aisin is the only supplier of hybrid transmissions to other manufacturers. "

[ChaosphereIX]

From the article:
"Hyundai’s choice was budget-minded; the manufacturer developed its hybrid propulsion system in-house, as opposed to licensing Toyota technology like Ford did."

The fact the auto chattersphere continues to believe this myth probably is because auto journalists, who should know better by now, continue to make this claim.  Ford actually put huge resources and innovative techniques into designing their first hybrid, the Escape Hybrid.

Even those who don't like ev's and hybrids will find the "under the hood" story of the Escape Hybrid's development interesting reading: http://www.fastcompany.com/51547/fords-escape-route

"Ford could have done things more simply. It might, for example, have bought part of Toyota's hybrid system, as Nissan has done. But in November 2002, less than two years from the scheduled start of production, Martens decided to develop the technology in-house. The only Toyota patents that it licensed, he says, were to avoid patent infringement. "That was a defining moment," he says. "It took away the safety net.""

And from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Escape

"The Escape Hybrid uses technology similar to that used in the Toyota Prius. Ford engineers realized their technology may conflict with patents held by Toyota, which led to a 2004 patent-sharing accord between the companies, licensing Ford's use of some of Toyota's hybrid technology in exchange for Toyota's use of some of Ford's diesel and direct-injection engine technology. Ford maintains that Ford received no technical assistance from Toyota in developing the hybrid powertrain, but that some hybrid engine technologies developed by Ford independently were found to be similar to technologies previously patented by Toyota, so licenses were obtained. Aisin Seiki Co. Ltd., a Japanese automotive components supplier belonging to the Toyota Group, supplies the hybrid continuously variable transmission for the Escape Hybrid. While Toyota produces its third-generation Prius transmission in-house, Aisin is the only supplier of hybrid transmissions to other manufacturers. "

well thanks for setting the record straight on that one



 

[safristi]

Low mileage drivers whatever age do not need an expensive,subsidised EV..who knows when these booddoggle freebies will evaporate..soon I hope..............keep your present presentable vehicle and maintain it into the ground .DOES more for this PLANET we all claim as GIAInormous polluted hole than buying NEW shyte. Too easy for those with money BURNING holes in their O Zone pockets of platitude.

[Rupert]

The above is a very viable point.

[mixmanmash]

Low mileage drivers whatever age do not need an expensive,subsidised EV..who knows when these booddoggle freebies will evaporate..soon I hope..............keep your present presentable vehicle and maintain it into the ground .DOES more for this PLANET we all claim as GIAInormous polluted hole than buying NEW shyte. Too easy for those with money BURNING holes in their O Zone pockets of platitude.

This.  I wouldn't trade in my 2 year old vehicle to get an EV.  That would just be silly and I wouldn't ever make up for the depreciation.  However, if shopping new, after driving a car into the ground for 10-15 years, I would strongly consider looking at one.

No incentives here in AB.

[Rupert]

   Yeah, I can see that, but even then you will want to see a return on your dollar...if you are forking out $10k more than you would otherwise. I think that the ball is in the manufacturers court...to produce a vehicle like the Sonata and Elantra et.al with the hybrid package...without billing $10k more or at least considerably less than that. The window of opportunity is around $20k as I see it and about 130HP and the EV range mentioned here is ok.

[mixmanmash]

   Yeah, I can see that, but even then you will want to see a return on your dollar...if you are forking out $10k more than you would otherwise. I think that the ball is in the manufacturers court...to produce a vehicle like the Sonata and Elantra et.al with the hybrid package...without billing $10k more or at least considerably less than that. The window of opportunity is around $20k as I see it and about 130HP and the EV range mentioned here is ok.

Sure.  I can agree with that.  I think time will bring the costs down through innovation and more mass manufacturing.