Topic: First Drive: 2017 Mercedes-Benz C 300 4Matic Coupe

[ChaosphereIX]

Fake leather is standard? 

i get what you're saying jaeger, but the premium brands really need to wake up and start supplying an alternative to animal skins in their products. beyond the question of animal skin's performance as a material for seating (i.e. t's too hot in the summer and needs heating in the winter) the leather industry itself has quite a dodgy track record.  (i personally saw tanneries in india that were dumping toxic chemicals into the ganges)  it just feels like leather is a throwback to the past when materials weren't as advanced as now.

seconded, I applaud the fact that manufacturers these days are moving on from this industry - dead animal skin should be obsolete as an upholstery, since I have felt fake leather that felt better than the real thing. Plus, apparently it is more durable. No brainer to me - why would you say "If it doesn't have dead cows in it, no sale for me." If it feels nice and looks nice, why not?

I personally would like a luxury car that does not force me to have killed cows just to cover the seats. Thankfully, Merc and Tesla are doing just that. I hope other companies follow suit, because I am sure quality fake leather is cheaper than getting the real thing - which is part of a horrible industry. Times are changing, very happy for that.

Also, this car is really overpriced for a 4-cyl luxury car. Wow.

[KD]

I'm sorry but, at least in pictures, the exterior styling of this thing stinks. Hey Mercedes, you've gone to the trouble of building a RWD-based coupe, would it kill ya to utilize some of those RWD athletic porportions and make it pretty?

I'm sure the C-coupe has lots of nice premium features, but it still looks painfully like an Accord Coupe - a fantastic car, to be sure, which you can of course get loaded up (and with a nice big N/A V6) for a lot less than this Benz. 

http://st.automobilemag.com/uploads/sites/11/2015/08/2016-Honda-Accord-Coupe-Touring-rear-three-quarters.jpg

Not to belabour the point, but it's not as if Mercedes can't build pretty things - I passed a silver AMG GT coupe on the highway last night, right at sunset, and it looked stunning 

I can't recall any Mercedes coupe that i have preferred the looks of more than their sedan equivalent.  In fact I find most are weird and ungainly looking in comparison to the sedan. 

The AMG GT is not only the best looking merc, but also one of the best looking cars currently available anywhere IMO.  I suspect that if they offered a roadster version of the GT it would steer a lot of sales away from the SL. 

[lebowski]

I can't recall any Mercedes coupe that i have preferred the looks of more than their sedan equivalent.  In fact I find most are weird and ungainly looking in comparison to the sedan. 

I agree, but maybe excepting the previous generation CL-class coupe (2009-2015 i think) - IMHO they hit that one out of the park 

[Oldsguy]

It doesn't bother me that this car offers "fake" leather.  I don't think one can judge a material without feeling it to see if it's suitable to be in a luxury vehicle or not.  Like others have stated, I have felt real leather in some vehicles that feel like a cheap knock off and fake leather in other products that I thought were real leather.  Isn't it usually just the seat tops that are leather anyway.  I thought I read that most mainstream vehicles that offer "leather seats" only have leather on the seating surfaces and not the rest of the bits.

This. Some of the Japanese and Korean vehicles have leather that is of very poor quality. I have witnessed some German vehicles with leather that has been very stiff and not luxurious in feel. Good-quality leather upholstery is indeed a luxury feature, but it is not easy to find. What I find equally troubling is the dearth of good-quality fabric used in cars of late. We have moved from mouse-fur velours to burlap-like weaves that are rough and in no way pleasant to the touch. It seems we reached peak automotive fabric in the late 1960s.

[ChaosphereIX]

It doesn't bother me that this car offers "fake" leather.  I don't think one can judge a material without feeling it to see if it's suitable to be in a luxury vehicle or not.  Like others have stated, I have felt real leather in some vehicles that feel like a cheap knock off and fake leather in other products that I thought were real leather.  Isn't it usually just the seat tops that are leather anyway.  I thought I read that most mainstream vehicles that offer "leather seats" only have leather on the seating surfaces and not the rest of the bits.

This. Some of the Japanese and Korean vehicles have leather that is of very poor quality. I have witnessed some German vehicles with leather that has been very stiff and not luxurious in feel. Good-quality leather upholstery is indeed a luxury feature, but it is not easy to find. What I find equally troubling is the dearth of good-quality fabric used in cars of late. We have moved from mouse-fur velours to burlap-like weaves that are rough and in no way pleasant to the touch. It seems we reached peak automotive fabric in the late 1960s.

Yep, had some astonished reactions feeling "real" leather that felt like hard plastic, and fake leather that felt amazing. Alcantara is super comfy. wish my entire interior was covered in it.

[Jaeger]

It doesn't bother me that this car offers "fake" leather.  I don't think one can judge a material without feeling it to see if it's suitable to be in a luxury vehicle or not.  Like others have stated, I have felt real leather in some vehicles that feel like a cheap knock off and fake leather in other products that I thought were real leather.  Isn't it usually just the seat tops that are leather anyway.  I thought I read that most mainstream vehicles that offer "leather seats" only have leather on the seating surfaces and not the rest of the bits.

This. Some of the Japanese and Korean vehicles have leather that is of very poor quality. I have witnessed some German vehicles with leather that has been very stiff and not luxurious in feel. Good-quality leather upholstery is indeed a luxury feature, but it is not easy to find. What I find equally troubling is the dearth of good-quality fabric used in cars of late. We have moved from mouse-fur velours to burlap-like weaves that are rough and in no way pleasant to the touch. It seems we reached peak automotive fabric in the late 1960s.

As opposed to that lovely leather that GM stuffs in its cars? Lol! Seriously,  I doubt you have ever actually been in a Lexus.

[Ex-airbalancer]

It doesn't bother me that this car offers "fake" leather.  I don't think one can judge a material without feeling it to see if it's suitable to be in a luxury vehicle or not.  Like others have stated, I have felt real leather in some vehicles that feel like a cheap knock off and fake leather in other products that I thought were real leather.  Isn't it usually just the seat tops that are leather anyway.  I thought I read that most mainstream vehicles that offer "leather seats" only have leather on the seating surfaces and not the rest of the bits.

This. Some of the Japanese and Korean vehicles have leather that is of very poor quality. I have witnessed some German vehicles with leather that has been very stiff and not luxurious in feel. Good-quality leather upholstery is indeed a luxury feature, but it is not easy to find. What I find equally troubling is the dearth of good-quality fabric used in cars of late. We have moved from mouse-fur velours to burlap-like weaves that are rough and in no way pleasant to the touch. It seems we reached peak automotive fabric in the late 1960s.

As opposed to that lovely leather that GM stuffs in its cars? Lol! Seriously,  I doubt you have ever actually been in a Lexus.

What wrong with the leather in my truck 
Have you felt the leather in a Venza , it is not top of the line stuff 

[Jaeger]

It doesn't bother me that this car offers "fake" leather.  I don't think one can judge a material without feeling it to see if it's suitable to be in a luxury vehicle or not.  Like others have stated, I have felt real leather in some vehicles that feel like a cheap knock off and fake leather in other products that I thought were real leather.  Isn't it usually just the seat tops that are leather anyway.  I thought I read that most mainstream vehicles that offer "leather seats" only have leather on the seating surfaces and not the rest of the bits.

This. Some of the Japanese and Korean vehicles have leather that is of very poor quality. I have witnessed some German vehicles with leather that has been very stiff and not luxurious in feel. Good-quality leather upholstery is indeed a luxury feature, but it is not easy to find. What I find equally troubling is the dearth of good-quality fabric used in cars of late. We have moved from mouse-fur velours to burlap-like weaves that are rough and in no way pleasant to the touch. It seems we reached peak automotive fabric in the late 1960s.

As opposed to that lovely leather that GM stuffs in its cars? Lol! Seriously,  I doubt you have ever actually been in a Lexus.

What wrong with the leather in my truck 
Have you felt the leather in a Venza , it is not top of the line stuff 

Neither, I suspect, is the leather in your truck.  Most mainstream brands, whether it's Toyota, Hyundai or GM, use fairly midgrade stuff.  It is not unique to the "Japanese and Koreans" as suggested by GregB / Catseye / Oldsguy.  And it's all better than vinyl, IMO.

We weren't really discussing mainstream vehicles, however, but rather luxury vehicles.  Generally (but not always) a higher grade of leather is used.  Judging by the many 2011 Lexus LS460s that I test drove, the leather used was exceptionally soft and held up brilliantly well over time.  I can't say I was similarly impressed with the quality of the leather in Some newer 2013-ish Cadillacs that I saw.

Clearly even MB considers leather a significant upgrade over their vinyl - and charges several thousand more, accordingly.

Oh, and pickup trucks are the type of vehicle where a vinyl interior makes perfect sense.  Luxury sports coupes - not so much.

[Slow_lane]

Had a new 2000 Honda Accord with leather. Less than 2 years of very light use and the leather in driver's seat split (Fixed after a big fight with Honda). Found the leather looked very wrinkled and aged as time went on. I have read long term tests about cars where they comment that after a just year of testing the leather seats were showing signs of wear.

Have fake leather on my 2011 BMW 328. The idea of fake leather kind of bothered me at time of purchase. But not anymore. Almost 5 years in it looks as good as the day I bought it. I find it looks and feels fine.

Based on my experience I would prefer to go with fake leather. I feel it holds up so much better and the differences in appearance and feel are not extreme. In fact I would hesitate to buy a car with real leather for fears of it aging poorly.

[Jaeger]

We weren't really discussing mainstream vehicles, however, but rather luxury vehicles.  Generally (but not always) a higher grade of leather is used.  Judging by the many 2011 Lexus LS460s that I test drove, the leather used was exceptionally soft and held up brilliantly well over time.  I can't say I was similarly impressed with the quality of the leather in Some newer 2013-ish Cadillacs that I saw.

We need to be careful getting Jaegermeister talking about leather. He's such a fashion plate that he can get overly... excited.   

Well at least we know what other sites you frequent.  And we are not the least bit surprised. Glad to see you having the courage to be all out in the open about it though - props for that.

[Jaeger]

Had a new 2000 Honda Accord with leather. Less than 2 years of very light use and the leather in driver's seat split (Fixed after a big fight with Honda). Found the leather looked very wrinkled and aged as time went on. I have read long term tests about cars where they comment that after a just year of testing the leather seats were showing signs of wear.

Have fake leather on my 2011 BMW 328. The idea of fake leather kind of bothered me at time of purchase. But not anymore. Almost 5 years in it looks as good as the day I bought it. I find it looks and feels fine.

Based on my experience I would prefer to go with fake leather. I feel it holds up so much better and the differences in appearance and feel are not extreme. In fact I would hesitate to buy a car with real leather for fears of it aging poorly.

So you're saying that the vinyl in a 2011 luxury vehicle was better than the leather in a mainstream vehicle more than a decade older?  Yeah, I guess I can buy that.  Although I can't see that being the basis for a comparison as to whether one should choose leather or vinyl in a luxury vehicle today.

I feel safe in predicting that the leather quality in a 2017 Mercedes bears no equivalence with that of a 2000 Accord.  Parenthetically, though, the leather in my '98 Accord held up just fine, though I only had the car for three years.

[aquadorhj]

Based on my experience I would prefer to go with fake leather. I feel it holds up so much better and the differences in appearance and feel are not extreme. In fact I would hesitate to buy a car with real leather for fears of it aging poorly.

My 15 year old bimmer still has leathers in great shape.  granted, i only have 130k on it, and it is wearing down, but it's getting somewhat of a patina with natural grains and folds and it still looks pretty good.

but i kind of agree, if it is vinyls of highest quality or micro synthetic suede (alcantara), i would not mind if it replaced leather.

[Jaeger]

Based on my experience I would prefer to go with fake leather. I feel it holds up so much better and the differences in appearance and feel are not extreme. In fact I would hesitate to buy a car with real leather for fears of it aging poorly.

My 15 year old bimmer still has leathers in great shape.  granted, i only have 130k on it, and it is wearing down, but it's getting somewhat of a patina with natural grains and folds and it still looks pretty good.

but i kind of agree, if it is vinyls of highest quality or micro synthetic suede (alcantara), i would not mind if it replaced leather.

Excellent.  I assume you actually take care of it?

[Oldsguy]

Well at least we know what other sites you frequent.  And we are not the least bit surprised. Glad to see you having the courage to be all out in the open about it though - props for that.

That's an even weaker follow-up than the 2015 Hyundai models. A totally unbiased review is at the link below for your enjoyment. Hope you like your Walmart Lexus though.

http://www.car-revs-daily.com/2014/04/22/2015-hyundai-sonata-goes-huge-forget-camry-and-accord-this-sonata-is-benchmarking-buicks/

[aquadorhj]

Based on my experience I would prefer to go with fake leather. I feel it holds up so much better and the differences in appearance and feel are not extreme. In fact I would hesitate to buy a car with real leather for fears of it aging poorly.

My 15 year old bimmer still has leathers in great shape.  granted, i only have 130k on it, and it is wearing down, but it's getting somewhat of a patina with natural grains and folds and it still looks pretty good.

but i kind of agree, if it is vinyls of highest quality or micro synthetic suede (alcantara), i would not mind if it replaced leather.

Excellent.  I assume you actually take care of it?

of course, but  m3s came with upgraded Nappa leather standard in canada, so it's pretty good stuff to begin with.  probably why it still looks good.

[Jaeger]

Well at least we know what other sites you frequent.  And we are not the least bit surprised. Glad to see you having the courage to be all out in the open about it though - props for that.

That's an even weaker follow-up than the 2015 Hyundai models. A totally unbiased review is at the link below for your enjoyment. Hope you like your Walmart Lexus though.

http://www.car-revs-daily.com/2014/04/22/2015-hyundai-sonata-goes-huge-forget-camry-and-accord-this-sonata-is-benchmarking-buicks/

That's the GregB /Catseye / Oldsguy we can count on - use any thread as an opportunity to bash Hyundai.  Absent a life, you have this.  Why not go back to posing in front of the mirror in your cute little outfits, admiring yourself?  Or is it that even your GM fanboy forums are once again getting sick and tired of you?

[Jaeger]

Based on my experience I would prefer to go with fake leather. I feel it holds up so much better and the differences in appearance and feel are not extreme. In fact I would hesitate to buy a car with real leather for fears of it aging poorly.

My 15 year old bimmer still has leathers in great shape.  granted, i only have 130k on it, and it is wearing down, but it's getting somewhat of a patina with natural grains and folds and it still looks pretty good.

but i kind of agree, if it is vinyls of highest quality or micro synthetic suede (alcantara), i would not mind if it replaced leather.

Excellent.  I assume you actually take care of it?

of course, but  m3s came with upgraded Nappa leather standard in canada, so it's pretty good stuff to begin with.  probably why it still looks good.

No doubt.

[Jaeger]

i see the same thing over and over again from the premium brands.  they either don't offer an alternative to leather or if they do, they will downgrade the seating configuration i.e. not offer the alternative in a sport seat config , or they will restrict the other options available with the "downgraded" level offered with the non leather seats.  jaguar just did this with the f pace.  they have faux leather but they aren't available in a sportier configuration, and the package they are offered in is very restrictive with other options.  they try to force you into higher levels.

Or it could be that they correctly perceive that there isn't sufficient demand for vinyl or cloth in higher trim levels.  Money talks.  If customers were clamoring for it, they would provide it.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The Germans? If people are clamouring for something, they'll stick it in a $$ package.

[Jaeger]

The Germans? If people are clamouring for something, they'll stick it in a $$ package.

Right.  And since they don't offer it in a $$$ package, one can safely assume that people aren't clamouring for it.