Topic: Test Drive: 2016 BMW X1

[2JDM]

There are a TON of first gen X1's roaming Ottawa. That generation was kinda ugly looking and had a cheap interior, just like the 1 series. 

This new generation one will sell like crazy, due to the looks and increased interior space alone. People shopping in this segment don't care about driving dynamics and FWD. They probably never heard of the Mini Countryman...

[EV-Light]

This looks great and will sell tons - it's the only small CUV that actually looks like a CUV and not a raised hatchback. I personally love it, just not sure the size would suit me...but I bet most singles will be happy with one.

[OliverD]

But the reality is that no one is building the equivalent of the E46 M3 these days so it isn't as if BMW is falling behind the competition.

I'm pretty sure Cadillac benchmarked the E46 when developing the ATS, and the ATS-V benchmarked the E46 M3.  Phenomenal chassis and balance, steering feedback, compact (tight) size - the ATS hit their mark in a lot of areas.  But the Caddy is a lot heavier, and obviously no inline 6...

You really think Cadillac was benchmarking a 15 year old BMW?

[HeliDriver]

^^

"To establish parameters around which they would design the ATS, GM engineers benchmarked the 1999-2006 BMW E46 3 Series, which ATS chief engineer Dave Masch and his team regarded as the most dynamic and driver-focused iteration of the 3 Series."

And, interestingly:

"The engineers emphasized low weight when developing the ATS and their efforts resulted in a finished vehicle that weighs less than the BMW E46 benchmark."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_ATS

[ChaosphereIX]

But the reality is that no one is building the equivalent of the E46 M3 these days so it isn't as if BMW is falling behind the competition.

I'm pretty sure Cadillac benchmarked the E46 when developing the ATS, and the ATS-V benchmarked the E46 M3.  Phenomenal chassis and balance, steering feedback, compact (tight) size - the ATS hit their mark in a lot of areas.  But the Caddy is a lot heavier, and obviously no inline 6...

I think the bigger reason BMW can get away with building "the good-to-really-good driving machine" these days is not that no one else is building "ultimate" driver's cars - but that the market has simply moved away from such vehicles. The vast majority of consumers just don't care if BMW doesn't outhandle the comparable Caddy, or has lifeless steering, or is overweight. 

However - I'm not sure how BMW's marketing is going to go in the future - they can only play on "the ultimate driving machine" for so long before it becomes a parody...

tell that to Alfa - they are about to slap BMW et al upside the head with their ultimate driving machine - the Giulia QV. Just watch, it will be praised as a revelation in driving dynamics - M3s of old....but journalists will still pew pew over the reliability concerns.

[HeliDriver]

What's church seats got to do with anything?

(Still, maybe it's better than the scatological screw up everyone else seems to make.  )

[lebowski]

What's church seats got to do with anything?

(Still, maybe it's better than the scatological screw up everyone else seems to make.  )

Church seats.....or laser battles?

[EV-Light]

But the reality is that no one is building the equivalent of the E46 M3 these days so it isn't as if BMW is falling behind the competition.

I'm pretty sure Cadillac benchmarked the E46 when developing the ATS, and the ATS-V benchmarked the E46 M3.  Phenomenal chassis and balance, steering feedback, compact (tight) size - the ATS hit their mark in a lot of areas.  But the Caddy is a lot heavier, and obviously no inline 6...

I think the bigger reason BMW can get away with building "the good-to-really-good driving machine" these days is not that no one else is building "ultimate" driver's cars - but that the market has simply moved away from such vehicles. The vast majority of consumers just don't care if BMW doesn't outhandle the comparable Caddy, or has lifeless steering, or is overweight. 

However - I'm not sure how BMW's marketing is going to go in the future - they can only play on "the ultimate driving machine" for so long before it becomes a parody...

tell that to Alfa - they are about to slap BMW et al upside the head with their ultimate driving machine - the Giulia QV. Just watch, it will be praised as a revelation in driving dynamics - M3s of old....but journalists will still pew pew over the reliability concerns.

Hopefully the Alfa will be able to go around the lap without losing any parts 

[ChaosphereIX]

But the reality is that no one is building the equivalent of the E46 M3 these days so it isn't as if BMW is falling behind the competition.

I'm pretty sure Cadillac benchmarked the E46 when developing the ATS, and the ATS-V benchmarked the E46 M3.  Phenomenal chassis and balance, steering feedback, compact (tight) size - the ATS hit their mark in a lot of areas.  But the Caddy is a lot heavier, and obviously no inline 6...

I think the bigger reason BMW can get away with building "the good-to-really-good driving machine" these days is not that no one else is building "ultimate" driver's cars - but that the market has simply moved away from such vehicles. The vast majority of consumers just don't care if BMW doesn't outhandle the comparable Caddy, or has lifeless steering, or is overweight. 

However - I'm not sure how BMW's marketing is going to go in the future - they can only play on "the ultimate driving machine" for so long before it becomes a parody...

tell that to Alfa - they are about to slap BMW et al upside the head with their ultimate driving machine - the Giulia QV. Just watch, it will be praised as a revelation in driving dynamics - M3s of old....but journalists will still pew pew over the reliability concerns.

Hopefully the Alfa will be able to go around the lap without losing any parts 

oh it will, just wait. it will stay together, and it will kick the M3, C63, etc. butt

plus, wake up, it isn't 1977 anymore

I could go on about Alfa's legendary engine reliability [electrics and interior not so much admittedly] or that my 20 year old Alfa has yet to majorly go wrong outside of maintenance items...but I have said all that before and besides, all that wont change your view one single bit.

hopefully you will have to eat those words after the car is released...Alfa deserves a win after so long...

[EV-Light]

But the reality is that no one is building the equivalent of the E46 M3 these days so it isn't as if BMW is falling behind the competition.

I'm pretty sure Cadillac benchmarked the E46 when developing the ATS, and the ATS-V benchmarked the E46 M3.  Phenomenal chassis and balance, steering feedback, compact (tight) size - the ATS hit their mark in a lot of areas.  But the Caddy is a lot heavier, and obviously no inline 6...

I think the bigger reason BMW can get away with building "the good-to-really-good driving machine" these days is not that no one else is building "ultimate" driver's cars - but that the market has simply moved away from such vehicles. The vast majority of consumers just don't care if BMW doesn't outhandle the comparable Caddy, or has lifeless steering, or is overweight. 

However - I'm not sure how BMW's marketing is going to go in the future - they can only play on "the ultimate driving machine" for so long before it becomes a parody...

tell that to Alfa - they are about to slap BMW et al upside the head with their ultimate driving machine - the Giulia QV. Just watch, it will be praised as a revelation in driving dynamics - M3s of old....but journalists will still pew pew over the reliability concerns.

Hopefully the Alfa will be able to go around the lap without losing any parts 

oh it will, just wait. it will stay together, and it will kick the M3, C63, etc. butt

plus, wake up, it isn't 1977 anymore

I could go on about Alfa's legendary engine reliability [electrics and interior not so much admittedly] or that my 20 year old Alfa has yet to majorly go wrong outside of maintenance items...but I have said all that before and besides, all that wont change your view one single bit.

hopefully you will have to eat those words after the car is released...Alfa deserves a win after so long...

yeah, that wouldn't work with me...I had a 145, 164 and 166 when I was blind about reliability and lived in Europe.

[ChaosphereIX]

But the reality is that no one is building the equivalent of the E46 M3 these days so it isn't as if BMW is falling behind the competition.

I'm pretty sure Cadillac benchmarked the E46 when developing the ATS, and the ATS-V benchmarked the E46 M3.  Phenomenal chassis and balance, steering feedback, compact (tight) size - the ATS hit their mark in a lot of areas.  But the Caddy is a lot heavier, and obviously no inline 6...

I think the bigger reason BMW can get away with building "the good-to-really-good driving machine" these days is not that no one else is building "ultimate" driver's cars - but that the market has simply moved away from such vehicles. The vast majority of consumers just don't care if BMW doesn't outhandle the comparable Caddy, or has lifeless steering, or is overweight. 

However - I'm not sure how BMW's marketing is going to go in the future - they can only play on "the ultimate driving machine" for so long before it becomes a parody...

tell that to Alfa - they are about to slap BMW et al upside the head with their ultimate driving machine - the Giulia QV. Just watch, it will be praised as a revelation in driving dynamics - M3s of old....but journalists will still pew pew over the reliability concerns.

Hopefully the Alfa will be able to go around the lap without losing any parts 

oh it will, just wait. it will stay together, and it will kick the M3, C63, etc. butt

plus, wake up, it isn't 1977 anymore

I could go on about Alfa's legendary engine reliability [electrics and interior not so much admittedly] or that my 20 year old Alfa has yet to majorly go wrong outside of maintenance items...but I have said all that before and besides, all that wont change your view one single bit.

hopefully you will have to eat those words after the car is released...Alfa deserves a win after so long...

yeah, that wouldn't work with me...I had a 145, 164 and 166 when I was blind about reliability and lived in Europe.

did the 164 and 166 have the V6? love that engine.

yes, I know they are not the most reliable brand historically speaking, but I am sure the Giulia will be fine...

[safristi]

Walfa Foxtrot Tango...........................Guilia Dreyfus ..I think it was a TANGO

[greengs]

But the reality is that no one is building the equivalent of the E46 M3 these days so it isn't as if BMW is falling behind the competition.

I'm pretty sure Cadillac benchmarked the E46 when developing the ATS, and the ATS-V benchmarked the E46 M3.  Phenomenal chassis and balance, steering feedback, compact (tight) size - the ATS hit their mark in a lot of areas.  But the Caddy is a lot heavier, and obviously no inline 6...

You really think Cadillac was benchmarking a 15 year old BMW?

I can see it.  I've had 3 E90s and finally got myself an E46.  Much more fun to drive than any of those even with less power. 

[OliverD]

^^

"To establish parameters around which they would design the ATS, GM engineers benchmarked the 1999-2006 BMW E46 3 Series, which ATS chief engineer Dave Masch and his team regarded as the most dynamic and driver-focused iteration of the 3 Series."

And, interestingly:

"The engineers emphasized low weight when developing the ATS and their efforts resulted in a finished vehicle that weighs less than the BMW E46 benchmark."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_ATS

Interesting. For some reason I thought they had benchmarked the E90. Clearly they did a good job as dynamically speaking the ATS is highly praised. Too bad about the styling (IMO).

[EV-Light]

But the reality is that no one is building the equivalent of the E46 M3 these days so it isn't as if BMW is falling behind the competition.

I'm pretty sure Cadillac benchmarked the E46 when developing the ATS, and the ATS-V benchmarked the E46 M3.  Phenomenal chassis and balance, steering feedback, compact (tight) size - the ATS hit their mark in a lot of areas.  But the Caddy is a lot heavier, and obviously no inline 6...

I think the bigger reason BMW can get away with building "the good-to-really-good driving machine" these days is not that no one else is building "ultimate" driver's cars - but that the market has simply moved away from such vehicles. The vast majority of consumers just don't care if BMW doesn't outhandle the comparable Caddy, or has lifeless steering, or is overweight. 

However - I'm not sure how BMW's marketing is going to go in the future - they can only play on "the ultimate driving machine" for so long before it becomes a parody...

tell that to Alfa - they are about to slap BMW et al upside the head with their ultimate driving machine - the Giulia QV. Just watch, it will be praised as a revelation in driving dynamics - M3s of old....but journalists will still pew pew over the reliability concerns.

Hopefully the Alfa will be able to go around the lap without losing any parts 

oh it will, just wait. it will stay together, and it will kick the M3, C63, etc. butt

plus, wake up, it isn't 1977 anymore

I could go on about Alfa's legendary engine reliability [electrics and interior not so much admittedly] or that my 20 year old Alfa has yet to majorly go wrong outside of maintenance items...but I have said all that before and besides, all that wont change your view one single bit.

hopefully you will have to eat those words after the car is released...Alfa deserves a win after so long...

yeah, that wouldn't work with me...I had a 145, 164 and 166 when I was blind about reliability and lived in Europe.

did the 164 and 166 have the V6? love that engine.

yes, I know they are not the most reliable brand historically speaking, but I am sure the Giulia will be fine...

Yep...both had the V6.

This looks exactly like my 164:


and exactly like my 166:

[ChaosphereIX]

164 is perdy...glorious engine

166...post facelift I liked it, before that it looked too sad face

shame they didnt prove reliable for you...164 usually was well regarded at least mechanically - that Busso engine is indestructible - bet it was trim and electrics that let you down

[bye]

That said, try a Tesla, and again it's a whole other story. Power is there - RIGHT there and it's POWER! Did I mention POWER?

    YUP!

[mlin32]

I can see it.  I've had 3 E90s and finally got myself an E46.  Much more fun to drive than any of those even with less power.

Agreed.

I had the generally derided E83, based off the E46 for 8 years and somehow it was more endearing than the E90. Yes, it guzzled the oil output of Saudi Arabia (ø = 10,8 l/100km) and overtaking required 2 weeks' notice, but it was more alive and the engine+chassis more character-ful (is that a word?). The 3er is technically better in every way and more competent but a huge snoozefest unless you drive it hard and fast down a winding road.

[Slow_lane]

Stop by a small BMW dealership while in Florida to check out X1. None in showroom so I had to go out to lot where they keep their inventory.

Looks nice. Much like a small X3. All the X1's the lot had there engines running. I a guessing to offset battery drain that BMW's are notorious for. Anyways the engine sure did not have a nice sound to it. I sure sitting in cabin it would be fine but standing in front of the thing it sounded like crap. Maybe that just the way direct injection engines sound. Not good. Very un-refined.

Seeing all the cars in lot idling away makes you wonder how many hours they run their cars. May have zero miles abut they have hours and hours of wear and tear.