Author Topic: New safety test rules for used cars  (Read 14492 times)

Offline wing

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Re: New safety test rules for used cars
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2016, 10:35:52 pm »
Be sure to greet them as FRIEND and they treat you well lol

Offline rrocket

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Re: New safety test rules for used cars
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2016, 10:48:34 pm »
Be sure to greet them as FRIEND and they treat you well lol

Not just as friend....but MY FRIEND! 
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline Firm

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Re: New safety test rules for used cars
« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2016, 10:52:43 pm »
For a government that campaigns on supporting the poor they surely know how to make life difficult for them.

This benefits almost everyone except the low income people who depend on older used cars. Garages get to gouge for the new "more involved" inspection, plus all the extra work generated. Sketchy Habibi used car lots will continue to pass every POS that rolls though, except now they'll be able to get more money for them. New car dealers will sell more new stuff and command high prices on their certified used stuff.  At the end of the day everyone takes more money from the low income people who can least afford it - Great plan Ontario Libs  :banghead:

Guys like me (cheapo DIY'ers) might actually stand to benefits from this. This will drive the price of "as is" vehicles way down, so us DIY guys can buy them, fix them ourselves, get our own inspections done and possibly come out ahead.

Offline rrocket

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Re: New safety test rules for used cars
« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2016, 10:54:33 pm »
For a government that campaigns on supporting the poor they surely know how to make life difficult for them.

This benefits almost everyone except the low income people who depend on older used cars. Garages get to gouge for the new "more involved" inspection, plus all the extra work generated. Sketchy Habibi used car lots will continue to pass every POS that rolls though, except now they'll be able to get more money for them. New car dealers will sell more new stuff and command high prices on their certified used stuff.  At the end of the day everyone takes more money from the low income people who can least afford it - Great plan Ontario Libs  :banghead:

Guys like me (cheapo DIY'ers) might actually stand to benefits from this. This will drive the price of "as is" vehicles way down, so us DIY guys can buy them, fix them ourselves, get our own inspections done and possibly come out ahead.

I'm a DIYer too.  But a leaky RMS or having to remove cylinder heads because of a teeny leak?  F-that.

Offline Firm

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Re: New safety test rules for used cars
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2016, 08:22:23 am »
As long as you're dealing with a reasonable Tech doing the inspection then a weeping RMS or similar shouldn't represent a failure. Not that I agree a leak should be grounds for failure in the first place, but it is what it is.

The program was due for an update, but IMO the focus should be strictly on safety. A small oil or coolant leak isn't a safety issue. Things like brakes, tires, steering etc I would actually support stricter inspections, or more regular inspection. Having worked in a shop I can tell you that there is a lot of scary stuff on the roads today.


Offline dougjp

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Re: New safety test rules for used cars
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2016, 08:32:08 am »
For someone who no longer is a DIYer, the combined factors currently happening and will happen in the near future are massive in terms of a financial hit when making a vehicle change. Perhaps this should be a different topic even though its relevant to this one, I don't know.

First, as already explained there will be a more expensive process to get a safety. Garages aren't going to charge the same to do all this and that's before any repair costs. On trade-ins, dealers will either insist on doing the inspection and getting paid for that (and repairs), or allocate an insurance like 'buffer' further deduction from trade in value. If you were trading in a vehicle, would you pay the dealer to do this + trust the dealer not to have unnecessary repairs.....

Second, it currently costs $ 1.48 to buy a US $ in a bank, and the Cdn. US mid rate exchange is $ 1.449. January 2013, $ 0.9923, January 2014, $ 1.06, January 2015, $ 1.18. To offset this, we have already seen some car cost increases on newly launched models but not a great deal relative to existing models, certainly not reflecting the exchange rate "devaluation" that has occurred. Just as we all complain when the dollar becomes favorable yet car prices don't drop, the reverse is true, meaning there are cost increases coming.

Third, the exchange rate has meant US buying up our used cars causing supply/demand price increases.

Then there is the market volatility for investors, the job security for workers. How does all this affect your decision to make a vehicle change now rather than later, or does it do the reverse, make you opt out of buying and look at the vehicles you have as long term  "holds"?

Offline pi314

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Re: New safety test rules for used cars
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2016, 08:57:24 am »
In NB the MVI is a fixed cost - I think $25?

I've found less honest dealers try to find something or the other wrong, but fixing the price of the inspection could solve half the problem.

As someone who is likely soon moving to Ottawa, the decisions of this Ontario government is making me seriously consider living on the Quebec side...

Offline SeaBlueS4

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Re: New safety test rules for used cars
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2016, 09:00:03 am »

Well bugger, that's killed the classic car hobby. Don't think any of the cars I've seen, other than $50k plus complete restorations would have a hope of passing these tests...

Offline Ex-airbalancer

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Re: New safety test rules for used cars
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2016, 09:13:39 am »

Well bugger, that's killed the classic car hobby. Don't think any of the cars I've seen, other than $50k plus complete restorations would have a hope of passing these tests...
Why ?
You can buy the car , change ownership , and plated it once it is mechanical fit
I see no problems , hopefully it will get the cars off the road where the inspection are done at the coffee shop

Offline safristi

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Re: New safety test rules for used cars
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2016, 09:17:32 am »
Any  and I do mean ANY time a GOV gets involved there are a dozen unintended!!?? consequences....


 but these faceless beurocraps who brought this up ,elected or not and the  pre-amble then the lobbying behind the scenes then the smiling Minister of Transports of Desire beaming at a new conference aboot saving Lives........what a miserable way to operate,,, Car/insurance and dealers laugh in our faces and we bend at the knee and kiss their rings................we are presumed UNsafe unless a Law sez otherwise...........NANNY NANNY where are my PAJAMMIES... :'( :popo: :'( :popo: :'( :popo:
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Offline Firm

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Re: New safety test rules for used cars
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2016, 09:26:17 am »
For someone who no longer is a DIYer, the combined factors currently happening and will happen in the near future are massive in terms of a financial hit when making a vehicle change. Perhaps this should be a different topic even though its relevant to this one, I don't know.

First, as already explained there will be a more expensive process to get a safety. Garages aren't going to charge the same to do all this and that's before any repair costs. On trade-ins, dealers will either insist on doing the inspection and getting paid for that (and repairs), or allocate an insurance like 'buffer' further deduction from trade in value. If you were trading in a vehicle, would you pay the dealer to do this + trust the dealer not to have unnecessary repairs.....

Second, it currently costs $ 1.48 to buy a US $ in a bank, and the Cdn. US mid rate exchange is $ 1.449. January 2013, $ 0.9923, January 2014, $ 1.06, January 2015, $ 1.18. To offset this, we have already seen some car cost increases on newly launched models but not a great deal relative to existing models, certainly not reflecting the exchange rate "devaluation" that has occurred. Just as we all complain when the dollar becomes favorable yet car prices don't drop, the reverse is true, meaning there are cost increases coming.

Third, the exchange rate has meant US buying up our used cars causing supply/demand price increases.

Then there is the market volatility for investors, the job security for workers. How does all this affect your decision to make a vehicle change now rather than later, or does it do the reverse, make you opt out of buying and look at the vehicles you have as long term  "holds"?

Agreed, 100%.

I change "hobby" cars often, but I rarely ever change out daily drivers. I guess I am just glad that my old junk is all still in great shape and shouldn't need to be replaced anytime soon. At least not until we need a kid-mobile.

SeaBlue, any one of my "classics" would pass to the new standards, it's very possible for a 30-40+ year old car to function just as it did when it was new. The one exception on my fleet currently would be the (newer) Sonoma which does have a very slow RMS leak.

Offline SeaBlueS4

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Re: New safety test rules for used cars
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2016, 09:52:28 am »

Well bugger, that's killed the classic car hobby. Don't think any of the cars I've seen, other than $50k plus complete restorations would have a hope of passing these tests...
Why ?
You can buy the car , change ownership , and plated it once it is mechanical fit
I see no problems , hopefully it will get the cars off the road where the inspection are done at the coffee shop

As is, the test makes sure the car is safe - working brakes, structurally sound etc.

However, the new rules (as gleaned from a rapid scan of the proposals) would place many requirements that would make most classic cars un-economic to repair. Show me a 40 yr old Triumph or similar that does not leak oil?

Offline EV Dan

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Re: New safety test rules for used cars
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2016, 10:27:21 am »
I have a mixed feeling "aboot" the gobment here. First, I think the new Drive Clean program is a mistake since it relies on OBDII readings and not an actual exhaust test. Scrap it alltogether OR make sure that if some boy racer removes a catalytic converter for example, or runs a custom engine mapping, they will never pass.

As for the new safety check, dripping oil or almost any other fluid may not sound like a huge deal but they do contain carcinogens and all that crap ends up in lake Ontario with every rain runoff, and then we wonder about ever increasing rate of diseases and health care costs. IMO in 21st century it's reasonable to expect a car should not leak. I suppose in Europe, along with Japan, Korea and most other developed countries a leaky car will not be on the road. Here they should have given a year or two so ppl could plan ahead, while making classic cars exempt, unless they are used as daily drivers. My 2 cents.
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Re: New safety test rules for used cars
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2016, 10:28:13 am »

Well bugger, that's killed the classic car hobby. Don't think any of the cars I've seen, other than $50k plus complete restorations would have a hope of passing these tests...
Why ?
You can buy the car , change ownership , and plated it once it is mechanical fit
I see no problems , hopefully it will get the cars off the road where the inspection are done at the coffee shop

As is, the test makes sure the car is safe - working brakes, structurally sound etc.

However, the new rules (as gleaned from a rapid scan of the proposals) would place many requirements that would make most classic cars un-economic to repair. Show me a 40 yr old Triumph or similar that does not leak oil?
Take a pressure washer to underside Triumph before you take it in  ;D

time for the writers from Autos.ca or double  clutch to do a story on it , call up the MTO and ask ,  like a real journalist  ;)

Offline Firm

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Re: New safety test rules for used cars
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2016, 10:45:23 am »

Well bugger, that's killed the classic car hobby. Don't think any of the cars I've seen, other than $50k plus complete restorations would have a hope of passing these tests...
Why ?
You can buy the car , change ownership , and plated it once it is mechanical fit
I see no problems , hopefully it will get the cars off the road where the inspection are done at the coffee shop

As is, the test makes sure the car is safe - working brakes, structurally sound etc.

However, the new rules (as gleaned from a rapid scan of the proposals) would place many requirements that would make most classic cars un-economic to repair. Show me a 40 yr old Triumph or similar that does not leak oil?

Come by my place, I've got an MGB that doesn't leak. Actually, it leaked like crazy when I got it; a new gasket on the filter adapter, checked the torque on the pan bolts and problem solved.

As Wing's earlier post eluded to, it's not like the new requirements are for absolutely zero leaking. There is a "tolerance" for the leak. If your car is dripping something bad enough that it's creating drops during the inspection, then it's probably enough of an issue that you should have it fixed.

As a hobbyist I am fine with that, I hate leaky cars and I have the means and ability to fix them. However,  I know plenty of single parents or low income families who would really struggle if they had to pay to have an oil leak on their 15 year old minivan repaired. That's who's affected the most by this crap; the classic car guys are not on shoestring budgets like that.

Offline SeaBlueS4

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Re: New safety test rules for used cars
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2016, 10:47:20 am »

Well bugger, that's killed the classic car hobby. Don't think any of the cars I've seen, other than $50k plus complete restorations would have a hope of passing these tests...
Why ?
You can buy the car , change ownership , and plated it once it is mechanical fit
I see no problems , hopefully it will get the cars off the road where the inspection are done at the coffee shop

As is, the test makes sure the car is safe - working brakes, structurally sound etc.

However, the new rules (as gleaned from a rapid scan of the proposals) would place many requirements that would make most classic cars un-economic to repair. Show me a 40 yr old Triumph or similar that does not leak oil?
Take a pressure washer to underside Triumph before you take it in  ;D

time for the writers from Autos.ca or double  clutch to do a story on it , call up the MTO and ask ,  like a real journalist  ;)


Yeah, I'm surprised there's not been more discussion of this. I'd have thought that the Mustang / Camaro / etc etc classic car crowd would be concerned about this and a lot more numerous than the Triumph / MG etc guys. Plus I would think that anyone into hot-rods, mods etc etc would be concerned. Did a quick scan and couldn't find any forum discussion at all.

I'm biased of course but think it would make for a great article if Autos could get some meaningful comment / detail from the MTO (good luck with that!). Could cover a few angles - the classic / veteran car side, hot-rods and modifications, plus low income / low budget "regular car" shoppers...

Offline blur911

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Re: New safety test rules for used cars
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2016, 11:01:31 am »
I have a mixed feeling "aboot" the gobment here. First, I think the new Drive Clean program is a mistake since it relies on OBDII readings and not an actual exhaust test. Scrap it alltogether OR make sure that if some boy racer removes a catalytic converter for example, or runs a custom engine mapping, they will never pass.


What does a custom engine mapping have to do with it?   You custom  map your engine controls  so it will run better with other changes made, it's not to defeat emissions testing.   
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Offline tooscoops

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Re: New safety test rules for used cars
« Reply #37 on: January 21, 2016, 02:38:25 pm »
the classic cars stuff, it will be tough to buy and plate, but won't change the people who keep cars for a long time... safety is only needed with an ownership change in most cases.

the low budget people are similar... it will get rid of the $500 cars bought on kijiji and then "certified" at a shop... those cars will likely need work to pass... there will still be individuals willing to pass a car and put their lic. on the line though... so as long as sally and billy nomoney have a friend with a safety book, they can still do the same thing and basically buy a cheap safety that means nothing expect they can now plate it.

how often would a car get pulled over and the cop/inspector ask, "who did the safety and when on this car? i see a leak, it shouldn't have passed"

all it changes is the not 'super' cheap used cars on the road(think 6-12 grand)... if bought from any type of dealer, there will be more liability and recourse for the buyer if the car isn't up to snuff... so it will drive those prices up, but also drive up their quality.
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Offline EV Dan

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Re: New safety test rules for used cars
« Reply #38 on: January 21, 2016, 02:50:23 pm »
I have a mixed feeling "aboot" the gobment here. First, I think the new Drive Clean program is a mistake since it relies on OBDII readings and not an actual exhaust test. Scrap it alltogether OR make sure that if some boy racer removes a catalytic converter for example, or runs a custom engine mapping, they will never pass.


What does a custom engine mapping have to do with it?   You custom  map your engine controls  so it will run better with other changes made, it's not to defeat emissions testing.

Modders will define "better" as more powerful while the car MFGs will be after fuel efficiency and level of emissions. Cars whose engines use custom ECU settings and other mods almost certainly will have different FE and emissions than those stated by the car maker.

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Re: New safety test rules for used cars
« Reply #39 on: January 21, 2016, 03:16:29 pm »
I have a mixed feeling "aboot" the gobment here. First, I think the new Drive Clean program is a mistake since it relies on OBDII readings and not an actual exhaust test. Scrap it alltogether OR make sure that if some boy racer removes a catalytic converter for example, or runs a custom engine mapping, they will never pass.


What does a custom engine mapping have to do with it?   You custom  map your engine controls  so it will run better with other changes made, it's not to defeat emissions testing.

Modders will define "better" as more powerful while the car MFGs will be after fuel efficiency and level of emissions. Cars whose engines use custom ECU settings and other mods almost certainly will have different FE and emissions than those stated by the car maker.
I can imagine APR, GEAC etc. having a cheat mode that you can turn on at the appropriate moment...in fact APR does have a 'back to factory'  mode that can be turned on and off in a moment from the drivers seat.   The people who make the Diesel Powerbox ( if they are still in business) install so you can just swap the cables over.
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