Topic: High-Tech Auto Theft

[Brig]

All the steps are outlined.  Very interesting article - I had no idea how organized these people were.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/how-high-tech-car-theft-became-a-billion-dollar-canadianracket/article28226997/

[johngenx]

Drive an 11yr old Highlander or 16yr old Subaru. No worries.


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[tooscoops]

interesting... when they talk about the "vulnerabilities" and how it happened.... all it is is greedy corrupt people. that is where it is vulnerable.

they try to implement the complexities of the new cars... that's no it at all. if they were simple, it would be even easier. do the exact same thing, only no alarm would go off, and the key wouldn't need to be programmed. the issues are employing people who have no ethics who are thieves. as long as cars have keys (even the push button style ones have them), this could happen. it's about letting as few people have a hand in the shipping process and where the codes and such are kept. the easiest thing would be to stop including key codes with cars and have them as a part of the online registration with the manufacturer.

[random006]

interesting... when they talk about the "vulnerabilities" and how it happened.... all it is is greedy corrupt people. that is where it is vulnerable.

they try to implement the complexities of the new cars... that's no it at all. if they were simple, it would be even easier. do the exact same thing, only no alarm would go off, and the key wouldn't need to be programmed. the issues are employing people who have no ethics who are thieves. as long as cars have keys (even the push button style ones have them), this could happen. it's about letting as few people have a hand in the shipping process and where the codes and such are kept. the easiest thing would be to stop including key codes with cars and have them as a part of the online registration with the manufacturer.

The last sentence is key.

Well said, tooscoops, well said.  (ok, well written but you know what I mean  )

All the tech in the world is useless unless it removes unnecessary people from the equation.  More specifically, it must remove the potential for crooks who become part of an invisible chain between the goods / service and the customer.

[tooscoops]

pay people nothing, and they'll usually resort to doing what they have to to supplement the income... that is the case in a lot of it... unskilled labour, fine... don't pay em a tonne... but if they have a moral responsibility, they should be people not easily corruptible... if it takes a higher pay to make those ethical people take the job, so be it... pennies compared to the loss from the theft and such...

[Jamie1]

Interesting article. Clearly they are stealing cars, but I'm not sure it is exactly happening like they say. They say a locksmith cuts a key, than the thief goes to home, opens the car door with the key, than plugs into the DLC and programs the key. Now I can only speak for Chrysler, but if you open the door with the key, the alarm WILL go off. It  can only be turned off by pressing the fob or putting a programmed key in the ignition. I can't believe other makers are that different, but as I said before, they are stealing cars, so what do I know.
We had a stolen truck brought to our shop by the insurance company. It had a new VIN on the dash and new door decal with the new VIN. Even had the Transport Canada compliance stamp. Only thing the decal was missing was the MDH[month,day hour it was built]

[safristi]

I'll do the DECAL for $99.98 'cos I'm more ethecallist......................

[Firm]

Interesting article. Clearly they are stealing cars, but I'm not sure it is exactly happening like they say. They say a locksmith cuts a key, than the thief goes to home, opens the car door with the key, than plugs into the DLC and programs the key. Now I can only speak for Chrysler, but if you open the door with the key, the alarm WILL go off. It  can only be turned off by pressing the fob or putting a programmed key in the ignition. I can't believe other makers are that different, but as I said before, they are stealing cars, so what do I know.
We had a stolen truck brought to our shop by the insurance company. It had a new VIN on the dash and new door decal with the new VIN. Even had the Transport Canada compliance stamp. Only thing the decal was missing was the MDH[month,day hour it was built]

You're right about the door key thing...Most vehicles that I am aware of (including my old GMs) will sound the alarm if you open the door with the key after locking it with the remote. I am sure they've found a way around that though.

[johngenx]

I know there is a variation of this that includes crooked dealer employees.

[tooscoops]

i did wonder about that as well. i'm sure there are simple ways to turn off the alarms other than the legal way, but that did seem to be a bit of a flaw in the article. and if they programmed a third key at the yard, it would be noted that there was a third key in the cars brain so anyone could find out where and when that was done... at least i think that's how the fca ones would work, right jamie?

the crooked dealer thing would make things "easier"... but that would be really easy to trace.

[pi314]

Interesting article. Clearly they are stealing cars, but I'm not sure it is exactly happening like they say. They say a locksmith cuts a key, than the thief goes to home, opens the car door with the key, than plugs into the DLC and programs the key. Now I can only speak for Chrysler, but if you open the door with the key, the alarm WILL go off. It  can only be turned off by pressing the fob or putting a programmed key in the ignition. I can't believe other makers are that different, but as I said before, they are stealing cars, so what do I know.
We had a stolen truck brought to our shop by the insurance company. It had a new VIN on the dash and new door decal with the new VIN. Even had the Transport Canada compliance stamp. Only thing the decal was missing was the MDH[month,day hour it was built]

You're right about the door key thing...Most vehicles that I am aware of (including my old GMs) will sound the alarm if you open the door with the key after locking it with the remote. I am sure they've found a way around that though.

The 2008 Rondo definitely does not sound the alarm when you unlock with the key. I know because we shuffle drivers often and one driver doesn't have a fob. I'm going to test the Odyssey and Focus out of curiosity, but I'm pretty sure I've used the key before.

[Firm]

Interesting article. Clearly they are stealing cars, but I'm not sure it is exactly happening like they say. They say a locksmith cuts a key, than the thief goes to home, opens the car door with the key, than plugs into the DLC and programs the key. Now I can only speak for Chrysler, but if you open the door with the key, the alarm WILL go off. It  can only be turned off by pressing the fob or putting a programmed key in the ignition. I can't believe other makers are that different, but as I said before, they are stealing cars, so what do I know.
We had a stolen truck brought to our shop by the insurance company. It had a new VIN on the dash and new door decal with the new VIN. Even had the Transport Canada compliance stamp. Only thing the decal was missing was the MDH[month,day hour it was built]

You're right about the door key thing...Most vehicles that I am aware of (including my old GMs) will sound the alarm if you open the door with the key after locking it with the remote. I am sure they've found a way around that though.

The 2008 Rondo definitely does not sound the alarm when you unlock with the key. I know because we shuffle drivers often and one driver doesn't have a fob. I'm going to test the Odyssey and Focus out of curiosity, but I'm pretty sure I've used the key before.

Not that my 96 Firebird or 2000 Sonoma represent any model of security; but they have about a 10 second delay. If you open the door with the key you have about 10 seconds to turn the ignition to the "on" position - otherwise the alarm goes off.
Maybe that's how they get around it, just being quick with the ignition. But I'd suspect that the programming required to get the ignition "on" in a modern car would take them longer than 10 seconds....

[Jamie1]

i did wonder about that as well. i'm sure there are simple ways to turn off the alarms other than the legal way, but that did seem to be a bit of a flaw in the article. and if they programmed a third key at the yard, it would be noted that there was a third key in the cars brain so anyone could find out where and when that was done... at least i think that's how the fca ones would work, right jamie?

the crooked dealer thing would make things "easier"... but that would be really easy to trace.

I don't think you can see where a key was programmed, but yes you can see how many keys have been programmed. You can also delete all the keys, if you lost a key, had a key stolen or want to kept an ex-spouse from having access to the vehicle. We get the last one a few times a year.

[rrocket]

i did wonder about that as well. i'm sure there are simple ways to turn off the alarms other than the legal way, but that did seem to be a bit of a flaw in the article. and if they programmed a third key at the yard, it would be noted that there was a third key in the cars brain so anyone could find out where and when that was done... at least i think that's how the fca ones would work, right jamie?

the crooked dealer thing would make things "easier"... but that would be really easy to trace.

I don't think you can see where a key was programmed, but yes you can see how many keys have been programmed. You can also delete all the keys, if you lost a key, had a key stolen or want to kept an ex-spouse from having access to the vehicle. We get the last one a few times a year.

Not sure how they do it for Lexus either.  You need the actual fob (there is no key start).  And to marry the fob to the car takes between 13 minutes and 40 minutes depending on which "marrying" sequence you are doing.

[blur911]

Why bother even getting in and starting them?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9XVA2rvNek

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Not sure how they do it for Lexus either.  You need the actual fob (there is no key start).  And to marry the fob to the car takes between 13 minutes and 40 minutes depending on which "marrying" sequence you are doing.

So Protestant Versus Catholic wedding?