Topic: Northern Exposure: Rear-Wheel Drive in Winter

[Autos_Editor]

There are those in the know, who know that rear-drive can be beautiful in the snow.
Read More...

[Boff]

Great advice all around. I'll add 2 things: (1) turn the traction control off when trying to get moving in deep snow, because a little more wheelspin than many systems allow is often necessary; and (2) if it's too nasty outside, stay home.

[Noto]

But not for the masses.

While I'm a fan of the theory behind this article, its message needs to be a bit more clear in terms of driver ability.  New or inexperienced drivers should not be taught on open roads how to utilize RWD in the wintery weather.

Good on you, though, Pritch, for thricing the winter tire argument

[2JDM]

Good article.

My dad was the same way. "RWD in winter is deadly!!" He then bought a RWD 330i in the middle of February. 

This will be my first winter with a RWD car, although it isn't really winter yet. 

[evil_twin]

For several years I drove my Mustang GT year round.  This included extreme weather conditions with highway closures and the like.  Yes, with winter tires it is certainly doable.  But not for the masses.  It requires constant vigilance.  In my opinion, FWD is less of a handful in extreme weather and thus the better option for the vast majority of people.

I'll agree that it's "not for the masses" (the ignorant, uneducated and unwashed...), but I'm surprised to hear you say it required constant vigilance.

I drove an '05 Mustang GT for 5 winters on Blizzaks in Southern Ontario.  Certainly not as surefooted as my WRX, but honestly I thought it was fine in 98% of conditions.  Including some whiteout drives through the snowbelt areas.

To me it's not so much that you can't get around with RWD, but that a RWD car will more clearly communicate to the driver when you're at the edge of traction - and certainly when you break traction completely.   This scares most drivers.   FWD and AWD will shield the driver from this information and you'll only know that you're travelling too fast when you're barrelling into a ditch, sideways, at 80 km/h.   A few winters in a RWD car would be good driver education for most Canadians.

Good on you, though, Pritch, for thricing the winter tire argument

This is the important part.   It's frustrating to still hear the opinions of folks regarding AWD and winter tires.  Purely based on my conversations with coworkers, the vast majority of drivers would still believe AWD + "good all season tires" (whatever those are??) is a superior winter combination than FWD + winter tires.  I'm honestly not sure what is to blame:  the car companies themselves?  heavy marketing "built for Canada", etc?

It's just incredible how 90% of these people spent $X,XXX extra to get an AWD vehicle (slip n grip CUV typically), but can't be bothered to spend the extra for winter tires!  Stick with the FWD model and save your money for winters you fools!   You don't need AWD to climb your driveway in Milton!     

 

[Firm]

Good article. With the exception of press cars; Mrs Firm and I have only ever owned RWD, so all those tips have become second nature....Throttle steering and training yourself to avoid any abrupt inputs is actually a fun and rewarding art. I used to commute somewhat regularly one winter from Mississauga to Alliston, of course it was a terrible winter; almost all poorly maintained backroads and always in the dark...Firebird on Pirelli Snowsports (at the time) never failed me, even through hood-level drifts.

Worst winter vehicle I've had is the Sonoma, the first winter I owned it I had it on factory 235/55 BFG Traction T/A's and got stuck all the time. By the next winter I'd smarted up and bought some winter tires and threw some patio stones in the bed - never got stuck after that, although it did slide around a lot more than the F-bodies do.

I wouldn't say I prefer RWD in the snow, of course when given the option I'd take an AWD on a snowy day. Big heavy FWD cars are beasts in the snow too (my dad's beater winter FWD STS is unfazed by the worst storms). What I don't like in the snow is smaller lightweight FWD cars; I recall trying to drive a friend's Ford Focus on all-seasons on a really snowy day and it was definitely worse than my RWD.

Even with a good pair of snows and all the driving aids in the world I simply don't like the way a smaller FWD feels - when the front wheels break free you've got very little inputs to play with; throttle, braking and steering are all nearly useless. With a RWD if you break the rears free, you've often still got grip up front.

[Noto]

What I don't like in the snow is smaller lightweight FWD cars;

*recalls driving from Toronto to Windsor in a rental Yaris with OEM tires during ice storm in 2013*

*SHUDDERS*

[lebowski]

Hills. RWD sucks for hills. Sure, you can throw sand bags in the trunk, but why bother when you can just have AWD or FWD (or a 911 of course )?

[Fobroader]

Hills. RWD sucks for hills. Sure, you can throw sand bags in the trunk, but why bother when you can just have AWD or FWD (or a 911 of course )?

Fixed

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I had two rwd trucks, a Ranger and a Toyota. With snow tires and a bit of weight, usually no issues. But I did carry tire chains if things got really nasty. Only had to use them on the road once that I remember, heading out the Hanwell to Harvey Station, I got hung up on a hill. 5 minutes to slap the chains on, and the rest of the drive was a doodle, if not a bit on the vibey side.

[Firm]

Hills. RWD sucks for hills. Sure, you can throw sand bags in the trunk, but why bother when you can just have AWD or FWD (or a 911 of course )?

Proper tires solve that....We don't have an abundance of hills in my area, but there are a few fairly steep ones and even in really slippery conditions, good tires and a (very) steady throttle will get you up. Worse I remember was the very steep hill for the entrance/driveway to the Old Mill restaurant (those in the GTA might know what I am talking about). While we were inside an ice storm hit and the steep grade was shear ice. We came outside to see a RWD Ford E-250 (airport passenger van) helplessly sliding backwards down the hill, rear wheels spinning, into the fence/ditch. A dozen people or so were standing around watching and waiting for a salt truck to come by. I jumped into the Firebird and was able to basically idle the car slowly up the hill, barely even touching the throttle - no wheel spin, no drama. The look on peoples faces was awesome!

[lebowski]

Fixed

Haha, i suppose I was just being charitable

Proper tires solve that....We don't have an abundance of hills in my area, but there are a few fairly steep ones and even in really slippery conditions, good tires and a (very) steady throttle will get you up. Worse I remember was the very steep hill for the entrance/driveway to the Old Mill restaurant (those in the GTA might know what I am talking about). While we were inside an ice storm hit and the steep grade was shear ice. We came outside to see a RWD Ford E-250 (airport passenger van) helplessly sliding backwards down the hill, rear wheels spinning, into the fence/ditch. A dozen people or so were standing around watching and waiting for a salt truck to come by. I jumped into the Firebird and was able to basically idle the car slowly up the hill, barely even touching the throttle - no wheel spin, no drama. The look on peoples faces was awesome!

In my own experience, good winter tires on a RWD  could not overcome the challenge of consistently and safely accelerating from a stop on a snowy hill. It really does come down to geography. Not lots of hills in ON or the Prairies, lots In BC, Quebec, and New England (perhaps the Maritimes as well? I have not spent much time there). Our family’s endless series of RWD Yank Tanks + snow tires + steep neighbourhood roads and driveways were a constant reminder of how compromised a setup that was for our locale, especially after finally moving to FWD and AWD. YMMV, but that was my experience.

[Cord]

When I was a kid we would travel from Edmonton to Sunshine Village near Banff every single weekend during the ski season. We did this in a RWD Suburban with winter tires on the rear only (referred to as "grips" in those days). Anyone familiar with the twisting mountain road into Sunshine in the late 70's knows that it could be very treacherous. We were never stopped by weather - ever. A few years later after I got my licence, I would take my dad's 75 Chevy Nova, (again RWD with bias-ply winters on the back only), on the same trip. Never had a weather related issue. If you talk to people today, they act like going into the mountains with anything other than AWD/4WD is almost a death sentence.

[rrocket]

I have only ever driven RWD in the winter...apart from the couple of years I had an Echo.  I too would take RWD over FWD.  IQ has also been driving a RWD car in the snow for the last decade (IS300), and she gets around just fine.  I disagree entirely that it's only for experienced drivers.  It's for drivers with COMMON SENSE...just like winter drivers with FWD or AWD.  Common sense goes a long way.


I'd also add...keep some type of traction mat in the trunk.  A specific, foldable winter traction mat or (as we've used) a simple carpet runner you'd use on your foyer.  If you get into trouble in a very slick area, put the mat in front of the tire with the best traction and you'd be surprised at how well it works to get you out of a tough situation.  IQ only had to use it once..but was thankful she had it in the trunk.

[mixmanmash]

I have only ever driven RWD in the winter...apart from the couple of years I had an Echo.  I too would take RWD over FWD.  IQ has also been driving a RWD car in the snow for the last decade (IS300), and she gets around just fine.  I disagree entirely that it's only for experienced drivers.  It's for drivers with COMMON SENSE...just like winter drivers with FWD or AWD.  Common sense goes a long way.


I'd also add...keep some type of traction mat in the trunk.  A specific, foldable winter traction mat or (as we've used) a simple carpet runner you'd use on your foyer.  If you get into trouble in a very slick area, put the mat in front of the tire with the best traction and you'd be surprised at how well it works to get you out of a tough situation.  IQ only had to use it once..but was thankful she had it in the trunk.

Great advice and I too agree that RWD is actually way better.  It communicates so well that you know exactly what's going on.

My dad had driven mostly RWD in winter since we moved to Canada in 1980, with the exception of 2 years in the 90s when he leased a FWD Windstar and then from 2000-2013 when he drove his AWD ML320.  Previous cars were a 80 Crown Vic and a 83 LeSabre.  He now rocks his E320 CDI in winter and with a set of winters has no issues.

I asked him for his thoughts.  He said he would take RWD any day over FWD in winter simply because when control is lost, it's way easier to bring it back than a FWD car which is trying to do to much with the front wheels.  He said he doesn't miss the ML320 (mom now drives it) at all.  He did say of course that it's a night and day difference driving the Crown Vic or LeSabre versus the much newer E320. 

[mixmanmash]

Pritch - great article.

My friend rocked a S13 240SX similar to yours in winter for many years and then a Z32 300ZX for many years.  He did say the 300ZX was better simply because it had more weight to it than the 240SX.

[Hammy]

Great article, I'm liking a Mustang or Camaro for my next vehicle (which could be tomorrow or in two years time) but was a bit worried about the RWD in our horrible winters.  Considering we also have a Jeep and F-150 4WD I could use either of those in bad storms if needed.

[Firm]

You guys that are running additional weight in Mustang/Camaros, etc. Do you really think it helps? I am just curious; I needed it in the Sonoma since the weight was entirely in the front of the truck with nothing in the rear. In my Camaro/Firebirds I've never felt the need to add weight because the car is better balanced. I feel like weight in those case might just do more harm than good (more momentum to stop, reduced fuel economy)

[hemusbull]

I like the story. But today's cars aren't real rear wheel drives. They are full of electronics like ABS, EBD, TCS, CBC, ESC and so on...The driving isn't in the hands of drivers , instead the microcontrollers do the job. And adding that most RWD cars here are AWD - from 4matics to iXs - nothing is pure rear wheel drive...

[rrocket]

I like the story. But today's cars aren't real rear wheel drives. They are full of electronics like ABS, EBD, TCS, CBC, ESC and so on...The driving isn't in the hands of drivers , instead the microcontrollers do the job. And adding that most RWD cars here are AWD - from 4matics to iXs - nothing is pure rear wheel drive...

"RWD" encompasses more than just brand new cars...