Topic: First Drive: 2016 Honda Civic Sedan

[GTABeancounter]

My ipod does not output digital audio from the 30 pin connector.

IIRC any ipod with the 30 pin connector (like my circa 2006 5th gen) outputs analogue audio from the 30 pin connector... that is why these exist...  https://www.jdslabs.com/products/8/fiio-l3-line-out-dock-cable/

This is easily proven by changing the equalizer settings in the ipod, they do have an impact on the sound played via the car's stereo.

Only the song/artist name and playlist data is digital (of course).



Maybe the analogue signal from the ipod is converted to digital and then back to analogue by the car's dac 

Thanks for the link to the cable. So it looks like it uses the headphone jack out which would be analog, then the car would convert the signal back to digital meaning the car's DAC has the final say. So it wouldn't matter how great the DAC in the iPod is.

huh?
1) DACs convert digital to analogue
2) That link was a quick way to show that line audio can be output from the old ipods via the 30 pin connector... that cable exists as a means to bypass the headphone amp in the ipod (I don't use one to connect my ipod to the car, that is done via the standard USB to 16 pin cable)
3) The DAC of that gen ipod is absolutely in the audio chain

I stand corrected on how the cable works but it still doesn't matter as the DAC in the car stereo is last in the chain and that is all that matters.

The car's dac is not in the chain with that gen ipod Only the amplifier is.

Mp3s on usb or cd of course pass through the car's dac.

[quadzilla]

The car's dac is not in the chain with that gen ipod Only the amplifier is.

Mp3s on usb or cd of course pass through the car's dac.

It has to be. Do you really think the a cheap mass market car stereo accepts an analog signal and passes it straight through to the amp bypassing everything?

Any analog signal plugged into to the car stereo would need to be converted by a ADC (analog - digital converter) so that the car stereo can process the sound. Then it goes through the cars DAC to the amp.

If I'm wrong please explain how the signal path works then.

[Hammy]

I think this new civic looks great, and I just listen to whatever is on the radio most times.  Maybe I'll blow Hondas mind by trading in the 335 for a shiny new civic!

[LoveToDrive]

I was looking forward to reading the six pages of comments on this article.  Its too bad the last 3 pages were a discussion on CD vs USB 

Anywho, I also am disappointed that the new Civic has grown in size. What for ?   

In general I like the styling outside, although I too don't understand why it looks like a hatchback but is really a sedan.  Inside the cabin looks to be a big improvement over the previous generation (never a fan of the old two tier design).

Overall I think the styling of the Mazda 3 is much cleaner both outside and inside.  I also would prefer the SkyActive 2.5 (if requiring upgraded power) vs the turbocharged in this Civic as those SkyActive engines seem to easily achieve their fuel economy ratings (which is more than can be said for most Turbos).  Where I really like the Civic over the Mazda 3 is the rear seat legroom (my 2010 3 is quite tight compared to a friends 2010 Civic). 

[Solstice2006]

^ Our threads are derailed all the time! 

I don't think it looks like a hatch.  Yes the rear window slopes down quite a bit.  But that is quite common with new cars now.  It definitely is different from their designs in the past. 

I am eager to see how different the Civic sedan and hatch (when it comes) are.  Will the hatch share similar interior layout? As it is a different platform? 

[sacrat]

Am I the only person left in North America who borrows CDs from the library and plays them at both home and in the car .. and does not rip them to disk?

I'm close. The only time I use the CD slot in my Sonata is to listen to what I borrowed from the library on the way home, so I can decide what to rip once I get there.

All the high quality audio I listened to in my 20s (1970s) has rendered spending money on high quality sound moot (mute) now, as the volume levels I played Zeppelin, etc. at have destroyed the dynamic range of my ears.

[sacrat]

The turbo seems pretty fast.  There's a review on C&D showing its 1/4 speed is the same as Focus ST (94mph)

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-honda-civic-sedan-15l-turbo-test-review
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2015-ford-focus-st-instrumented-test-review

My favourite quote from the CD article was
 
"Lows: More creases than a rack of trousers, "

[mlin32]

Anywho, I also am disappointed that the new Civic has grown in size. What for ?   

Pretty much every car grows in size with every new generation, and often grow in weight to make the IIHS happy with its new (IMO unnecessary) super small offset test- although this trend is thankfully slowing in the wake of more stringent consumption and emissions standards.

Can you imagine a marketing advert that says "The new Honda Civic, with less space than before!" Wouldn't sell.

[GTABeancounter]

I was looking forward to reading the six pages of comments on this article.  Its too bad the last 3 pages were a discussion on CD vs USB 

This is mostly my fault... and I'm sorry. I spend time on several audio related forums (headfi, avs... etc.), have spent way too much time and money on my audio hobby and should have known better than to participate in opening this can of worms here.

This all started with one point that I am going to make one last time.. I am all for eliminating CD decks but it would be nice to be able to play the same 1411kbp file via flac or some other lossless format through USB. The best of both worlds really, all the data that is on a CD (with no compression to worry about (regardless of how audible it may or may not be)) but about 700+ songs in a $20.00 32GB USB. BMW updated their premium audio system a couple years back to play flac files via a software update so it really can't be that difficult.

Anyhow, back to the car. The styling has actually grown on me. Viewed in profile it actually looks really slick, and the rear pillar only REALLY bothers me from the perspective you see in the cover photo... just way too much crosstour from that angle. Have to reserve judgment until I see one in person.

Not sure if the ILX will be updated with this revised platform but it will be interesting to see acura's take on it. The current ILX is a very sharp looking vehicle to my eyes vs the outgoing civic.

[redman]

.."I preferred this non-boosted 2.0L engine. It has less horsepower and torque than the turbo engine, but it still offers more horsepower than other cars in its class. And it’s worth noting that the LX weighs more than 80 kg less than the Touring model. I enjoyed the normally-aspirated engine’s steady, predictable power curve when accelerating and its delicious exhaust note. Yes, this engine sounds better than the turbo."

 ^
^^
This.

I with you here. I prefer a little more displacement over a gasoline turbo engine for a variety of reasons.
Not a fan of the thick chrome plastic crosstour-esk look myself, but will have to leave final judgement to a first hand viewing. The 2016 looks improved by all other accounts.
The big advantage over it's main competitor has been handling and it seems that the 16 Civic does not disappoint by increasing the body rigidity and incorporating rear independent suspension.
(new independent multi-link setup). vs 2016 Corolla Torsion Beam Type, Stabilizer Bar.

[GTABeancounter]

Anywho, I also am disappointed that the new Civic has grown in size. What for ?   

Pretty much every car grows in size with every new generation, and often grow in weight to make the IIHS happy with its new (IMO unnecessary) super small offset test- although this trend is thankfully slowing in the wake of more stringent consumption and emissions standards.

Can you imagine a marketing advert that says "The new Honda Civic, with less space than before!" Wouldn't sell.

As others have said, the FIT became a thing in North America around the time the Civic grew to be what the Accord had been only a generation or two prior. As a 40 year old I've known the Civic to be everything from a tiny little "sh!t box" of a car (reliable perhaps but tiny!) to a slick looking mid size (almost?) family car that it is today and everything in between. It will be interesting to see what will happen in 10 years once the FIT presumably grows to be larger than a subcompact.

When marketing / product planning / production / geography etc. intersect things can get pretty interesting. VW is a good example... I remember when the Jetta was a "step up" from the Golf... same platform but more content in the Jetta. Now the Jetta is arguably step below the Golf. Throw in the "City Golf... Rabbit.." etc. from a few years ago and it gets more interesting. Anyhow, back to Honda... I wouldn't be surprised if one day the Civic and Accord end up very similar in size with the Civic being geared more towards the sport end of the spectrum and the Accord being more of a comfortable touring car... OR you could see something along the lines of the TL & TSX merging to one model though the Civic and Accord brand names are so valuable...

[needmorespeed]

1.8 i-Vtec engine will be replaced by 2.0

[Noto]

I with you here. I prefer a little more displacement over a gasoline turbo engine for a variety of reasons.

I haven't driven either of Honda's new motors, but can tell you that small turbos aren't bad at all...in fact, they're kinda great.

Go give VW's 1.4T a try.

[tooscoops]

i'm still old school with that. i'll take a reliable non-boosted engine. i feel like the new generation of engines doesn't add the turbo to make it faster, they add the turbo to make it at least sufficient on acceleration... meaning the turbo will be going pretty much all the time other than coasting.

i feel that a turbo is fine IF the engine it is in would be at least a bearable engine without the turbo on there... a 1.5? i wouldn't want an engine that size on it's own moving a decent sized car... 1.8 is about my minimum.

I'm sure i'm just being stubborn, but i'm still scared of fixing turbos, the (generally) shorter lifespan, the usual need of high test fuel, little things like letting the turbo wind down after driving.... no replacement for displacement.

[Noto]

i'm still old school with that. i'll take a reliable non-boosted engine. i feel like the new generation of engines doesn't add the turbo to make it faster, they add the turbo to make it at least sufficient on acceleration... meaning the turbo will be going pretty much all the time other than coasting.

i feel that a turbo is fine IF the engine it is in would be at least a bearable engine without the turbo on there... a 1.5? i wouldn't want an engine that size on it's own moving a decent sized car... 1.8 is about my minimum.

I'm sure i'm just being stubborn, but i'm still scared of fixing turbos, the (generally) shorter lifespan, the usual need of high test fuel, little things like letting the turbo wind down after driving.... no replacement for displacement.

Go take out the VW 1.4T.

[tooscoops]

i will... but i'm stubborn as i said... i may even love the engine, but i wouldn't buy one.

[johngenx]

The 1.4T might be awesome, but I'll take the 1.8L Toyota engine that I know will go 400K without an issue.  If you're a leasing customer of like to change cars, go for the VW if you like, but for long term owners, it's a bit of a crap shoot.

[Noto]

The 1.4T might be awesome, but I'll take the 1.8L Toyota engine that I know will go 400K without an issue.  If you're a leasing customer of like to change cars, go for the VW if you like, but for long term owners, it's a bit of a crap shoot.

Outta curiosity, what turbocharged engine has been unreliable?

[mlin32]

I prefer a small displacement turbo engine.....I had the large 2,5 litre Skyactiv with the Mazda3 and that was quite disappointing. Practically worse than turbo lag, basically nothing happened below 2750rpm so if you were caught in the wrong gear at the wrong time, you were kind of stuck waiting for the engine to get into the powerband. The tall final drive didn't help. It felt a bit coarse at high revs too, not something I wanted to keep at the redline all day. Not that I would, because not much happened above 5500rpm either, mostly noise. Plus, fuel consumption was disappointing on the autoroutes.

Plus, in a lot of countries, the vehicle tax is partly based on displacement.

Engines are all pretty reliable thesedays.

[dirtyjeffer]

The 1.4T might be awesome, but I'll take the 1.8L Toyota engine that I know will go 400K without an issue.  If you're a leasing customer of like to change cars, go for the VW if you like, but for long term owners, it's a bit of a crap shoot.

Outta curiosity, what turbocharged engine has been unreliable?

the older 1.8T that was used in many VAG vehicles did have the coil pack and oil sludge issue, but that was over a decade ago now...i think all newer engines from all makes are pretty much a safe bet.