Topic: First Drive: 2016 Honda Civic Sedan

[tpl]

I'd argue the demographic that Honda want buying the car won't have a use for CDs. Oldsters and their CDs aren't it.

I have a CD/DVD unit in my cars...never used it. USB all the way!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Never used the dvd/cd in mine either. Just a 16Gb SDHC card.  Sadly my car will play just about any format except FLAC.

[tortoise]

I'd argue the demographic that Honda want buying the car won't have a use for CDs. Oldsters and their CDs aren't it.

That sentence reminds me of the marketing strategy for the Element.

[GTABeancounter]

I'd argue the demographic that Honda want buying the car won't have a use for CDs. Oldsters and their CDs aren't it.

This may be true; but is it really that difficult to include functionality for lossless formats? This is my beef with what Honda has done here.

I've already ripped my 500+ CD collection to flac and it would be nice to have my cake and eat it too... ie; hundreds of CD quality songs on a USB stick. Our 2011 S60 and 2012 Golf can't play flac files and this is a feature I hope to have in my next vehicle.

Its sad to me that my 93si hatch with an Alpine deck and upgraded 6x9 speakers mounted on the cargo/hatch cover probably sounded way better than this current civic. For a modest $350 or so I had a great sounding car.

[dirtyjeffer]

I'd argue the demographic that Honda want buying the car won't have a use for CDs. Oldsters and their CDs aren't it.

I have a CD/DVD unit in my cars...never used it. USB all the way!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

i have yet to put a CD into my 2012 Kia Rio5...in a few more months, i will have had it for 4 years.

[pi314]

I'd argue the demographic that Honda want buying the car won't have a use for CDs. Oldsters and their CDs aren't it.

This may be true; but is it really that difficult to include functionality for lossless formats? This is my beef with what Honda has done here.

I've already ripped my 500+ CD collection to flac and it would be nice to have my cake and eat it too... ie; hundreds of CD quality songs on a USB stick. Our 2011 S60 and 2012 Golf can't play flac files and this is a feature I hope to have in my next vehicle.

Its sad to me that my 93si hatch with an Alpine deck and upgraded 6x9 speakers mounted on the cargo/hatch cover probably sounded way better than this current civic. For a modest $350 or so I had a great sounding car.

Couldn't you just get a FLAC player and play via aux in or bluetooth audio? In the case of the latter you don't even need another device, just use your phone.

[GTABeancounter]

I'd argue the demographic that Honda want buying the car won't have a use for CDs. Oldsters and their CDs aren't it.

This may be true; but is it really that difficult to include functionality for lossless formats? This is my beef with what Honda has done here.

I've already ripped my 500+ CD collection to flac and it would be nice to have my cake and eat it too... ie; hundreds of CD quality songs on a USB stick. Our 2011 S60 and 2012 Golf can't play flac files and this is a feature I hope to have in my next vehicle.

Its sad to me that my 93si hatch with an Alpine deck and upgraded 6x9 speakers mounted on the cargo/hatch cover probably sounded way better than this current civic. For a modest $350 or so I had a great sounding car.

Couldn't you just get a FLAC player and play via aux in or bluetooth audio? In the case of the latter you don't even need another device, just use your phone.

Those are options but they represent compromises in terms of the sound quality among other issues.

I get that 90%+ (my guess) of the population is perfectly happy to play lossy audio formats during their commutes, but in this day in age when a 32GB SD card or USB stick costs under $20 and CD players are disappearing from vehicles it would be nice to have the option of playing CD quality music in my car.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I'd argue the demographic that Honda want buying the car won't have a use for CDs. Oldsters and their CDs aren't it.

This may be true; but is it really that difficult to include functionality for lossless formats? This is my beef with what Honda has done here.

I've already ripped my 500+ CD collection to flac and it would be nice to have my cake and eat it too... ie; hundreds of CD quality songs on a USB stick. Our 2011 S60 and 2012 Golf can't play flac files and this is a feature I hope to have in my next vehicle.

Its sad to me that my 93si hatch with an Alpine deck and upgraded 6x9 speakers mounted on the cargo/hatch cover probably sounded way better than this current civic. For a modest $350 or so I had a great sounding car.

It isn't Honda's problem if a tiny number of people decide to use an esoteric media format. Those that really care can go to the aftermarket for a new head unit.

[quadzilla]

I'd say that 99.9% of the population wouldn't be able to tell the difference between lossy and lossless music in a Honda Civic. Why would Honda give a shi!t about that 0.1%.

[GTABeancounter]

I'd argue the demographic that Honda want buying the car won't have a use for CDs. Oldsters and their CDs aren't it.

This may be true; but is it really that difficult to include functionality for lossless formats? This is my beef with what Honda has done here.

I've already ripped my 500+ CD collection to flac and it would be nice to have my cake and eat it too... ie; hundreds of CD quality songs on a USB stick. Our 2011 S60 and 2012 Golf can't play flac files and this is a feature I hope to have in my next vehicle.

Its sad to me that my 93si hatch with an Alpine deck and upgraded 6x9 speakers mounted on the cargo/hatch cover probably sounded way better than this current civic. For a modest $350 or so I had a great sounding car.

It isn't Honda's problem if a tiny number of people decide to use an esoteric media format. Those that really care can go to the aftermarket for a new head unit.

Look, I get the argument. Listening to lossy audio on $10 earbuds has been the norm since the IPOD became a thing and the segment of the population that wants better sound is very small.

I'd say "esoteric" is a fair descriptor for DSD, but not for ALAC or FLAC. I had a CD player in my 93 civic and that was 22 years ago. I can tell the difference between a CD and an MP3 file in my S60's standard audio system. I'm good with removing the CD player, but it would be nice to still have CD quality sound via a lossless audio format. I do know BMW did a software update a couple years back for their upgraded audio package to allow for Flac so it can't be that big an issue.

[GTABeancounter]

I'd say that 99.9% of the population wouldn't be able to tell the difference between lossy and lossless music in a Honda Civic. Why would Honda give a shi!t about that 0.1%.

My take is different...

I do agree that less than 1% would probably care.

But I'm reasonably certain that 90%+ of the population have never tried such a comparison in the first place.

[quadzilla]

I can tell the difference between a CD and an MP3 file in my S60's standard audio system.

Curious to know how you did A/B/X testing in your S60.

[dkaz]

I have vinyl records. I demand a turntable for my car.

[conwelpic]

Yeah this "people just gotta adjust" argument doesn't hold water at all. Just chest thumping, "I know the latest" talk, or manufacturer's employees promoting their product. The proof is, music CDs are on sale pretty much everywhere. Today. Anyone who doesn't believe that, check the links;

What percentage of upcoming Civic buyers know how to convert their future CD purchases and all their past CDs to a USB stick? What's the cost for that (equipment + their time)? Horribly inefficient, little net gain. Why some Civic buyers, maybe lots, don't even have a computer capable of doing it, or at the very least, know how to use it. Some people just have smart phones, some don't even have those. The only purpose for USB stick music for a car is narrowing the songs to the ones the person really likes, as well as converting video music to play in the car.   

No, what we have here folks is a Manufacturer trying to save $ 15.00 in equipment and electronics costs and streamline interior design at the same time. What do you want to bet there will be an expensive dealer add on "option" (for added new profit margins) where before it was standard equipment - I call it sleazy marketing 101.

Unfortunately this kind of greed sometimes bites back. People may actually realize that its their money and they aren't a slave of the manufacturer. What a concept! So, lost sales and market share result when they go elsewhere.   

anyone with a Windows operating system (not familiar with Apple so can't comment on that system) on a computer, laptop or tablet can convert to mp3 (no additional software is required as its built-in to the operating system) with a few easy steps and it only takes about 1-2 minutes per CD to physically do it.

The KIA Soul has not had a CD player in it since it came out with the generation 2 in 2014, it appears to have had no impact on their sales (heading for record sales of that model in Canada), but maybe on a small scale but that could apply on any feature on any vehicle as to why someone may not purchase it.  Overall I don't think not having CD player will put many buyers off the vehicle simply based on that feature alone.
I have a 2012 Soul which has a CD player, but very rarely use it as all my music is stored on micro flash drive (my 8gb has nearly 2900 tracks on it) or the internal storage of the UVO unit.  Having no CD player would not effect me in any way. 
KIA has never brought out a dealer option to replace it.  Anyone who absolutely really needed one always found a work around.

Actually without CD's it makes operating the vehicle a little safer as they don't have to be constantly changing the CD and also you don't have to worry about storing all the CD's in the vehicle which can take up a lot of space.

[tooscoops]

cd's definitely sound better in my jeep than radio (any format, especially sirius)... and it does seem to have an edge over the ipod/mp3 in the car, but less noticeable there. Mine is just an 8 speaker system with no sub though, so it doesn't sound like a concert hall anyway....

I would think the stereo in a small space like the civic the difference would be negligible... but i do get the fact that it would be nice just to be able to play the memory stick, no matter what it sounded like, rather than having to convert it.

i think it's more a question of whether you rip your cd's in loss-less or not, rather than what car audio systems use... even though i love music, i'd take being able to play it anywhere over a touch better quality.

[whaddaiknow]

When something is by design not capable of reproducing the fine nuances of the sound by virtue of using, though decent, but still compromised filters and speaker system built to a price point, playing a lossless format on such a system and claiming you can hear the difference is like eavesdropping on a conversation next door with your ear to the wall and claiming you heard a mouse fart there.

MP3 at 320Kb/s is virtually impossible to tell from a lossless when played on a good Hi-Fi system. You need some serious kit to be able to tell. Of course, even I can tell a 64Kb/s MP3 from a CD.

[GTABeancounter]

I can tell the difference between a CD and an MP3 file in my S60's standard audio system.

Curious to know how you did A/B/X testing in your S60.

This is a can of worms,  and a discussion on double blind testing, level matching, psychoacoustics, objective vs. subjective evaluations etc. would take this way off topic and is better suited to other forums.

I can tell you that any content I've listened to in my S60 via Bluetooth is very sibilant and bright without even comparing to the CD.

As for CD, my first experience noticing a difference was when my 5th Gen IPOD's battery bit the dust. I was surprised at how good a couple of my favorite CD's sounded after having gotten used to the IPOD for a couple years. The 5th Gen still had the wolfson dac so the ipod was not the weak link in the chain.

My experience a couple weeks back with USB and high bit rate mp3 was a bit of a letdown compared to CD. 

[tooscoops]

Yeah this "people just gotta adjust" argument doesn't hold water at all. Just chest thumping, "I know the latest" talk, or manufacturer's employees promoting their product. The proof is, music CDs are on sale pretty much everywhere. Today. Anyone who doesn't believe that, check the links;

What percentage of upcoming Civic buyers know how to convert their future CD purchases and all their past CDs to a USB stick? What's the cost for that (equipment + their time)? Horribly inefficient, little net gain. Why some Civic buyers, maybe lots, don't even have a computer capable of doing it, or at the very least, know how to use it. Some people just have smart phones, some don't even have those. The only purpose for USB stick music for a car is narrowing the songs to the ones the person really likes, as well as converting video music to play in the car.   

No, what we have here folks is a Manufacturer trying to save $ 15.00 in equipment and electronics costs and streamline interior design at the same time. What do you want to bet there will be an expensive dealer add on "option" (for added new profit margins) where before it was standard equipment - I call it sleazy marketing 101.

Unfortunately this kind of greed sometimes bites back. People may actually realize that its their money and they aren't a slave of the manufacturer. What a concept! So, lost sales and market share result when they go elsewhere.   

anyone with a Windows operating system (not familiar with Apple so can't comment on that system) on a computer, laptop or tablet can convert to mp3 (no additional software is required as its built-in to the operating system) with a few easy steps and it only takes about 1-2 minutes per CD to physically do it.

The KIA Soul has not had a CD player in it since it came out with the generation 2 in 2014, it appears to have had no impact on their sales (heading for record sales of that model in Canada), but maybe on a small scale but that could apply on any feature on any vehicle as to why someone may not purchase it.  Overall I don't think not having CD player will put many buyers off the vehicle simply based on that feature alone.
I have a 2012 Soul which has a CD player, but very rarely use it as all my music is stored on micro flash drive (my 8gb has nearly 2900 tracks on it) or the internal storage of the UVO unit.  Having no CD player would not effect me in any way. 
KIA has never brought out a dealer option to replace it.  Anyone who absolutely really needed one always found a work around.

Actually without CD's it makes operating the vehicle a little safer as they don't have to be constantly changing the CD and also you don't have to worry about storing all the CD's in the vehicle which can take up a lot of space.

just also wanted to say i was fumbling around with a cd yesterday and totally agree with that last statement.

also, not putting in a cd player really isn't a big deal.... it is just one more format... most cars these days have am/fm/satellite/aux/usb/sdcard/bluetooth.... if you can't get what you need on one of those formats, then you are the issue, not the car.

i was selling back when cassette players were still in the cars... switching to cd's, there were some people complaining... and that was harder to convert to a cd, but they all managed somehow. i'm sure 8 tracks there were some holdouts as well.

and the only person really having an issue with the cars not excepting lossless formats isn't saying he can obviously hear the difference (unless i'm reading wrong), he is just upset that he doesn't HAVE those files in any other format, so he is unable to listen to his music collection.

[dougjp]

I went through all those changes in the past. The only difference with now is, with each of those changes the newer type of audio product was on sale (ie; cassettes were in the stores as 8 tracks left). People therefore only complained for a short time and then as they found new music of interest, they bought the new format. But this time the current format FOR SALE in stores is still CD and there isn't an option for non computer people, whatever the reason. And the huge variety of titles at these stores pretty much ensures CDs are alive and well in the marketplace.

I'm not talking about whether one by one, each autos.ca member states their abilities and preferences which aren't CDs with regard to the way they listen to audio in a car. Nor am I talking about a niche car model which clearly aims at a tech specific, perhaps younger buyer. The Civic is as mainstream as it gets, it needs to continue to sell it in volume.

So on topic, here is a survey done this year by market research firm Ipsos which confirms what I have been saying about CDs.   

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/consumers-prefer-old-school-am-fm-radio-in-the-car-study-finds.html

[tortoise]

MP3 at 320Kb/s is virtually impossible to tell from a lossless when played on a good Hi-Fi system.

Disagree completely.

I got every one of these right using a laptop and $20 Monoprice headphones.

http://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/how-well-can-you-hear-audio-quality

[goodsonr]

Am I the only person left in North America who borrows CDs from the library and plays them at both home and in the car .. and does not rip them to disk?