Author Topic: First Drive: 2016 Honda Civic Sedan  (Read 81292 times)

Offline Solstice2006

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 12681
  • Carma: +245/-468
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2008 Hyundai Entourage, 2007 Buick Lucerne
Re: First Drive: 2016 Honda Civic Sedan
« Reply #140 on: November 01, 2015, 09:26:56 am »
With the 2.5L in the Mazda the standard is great, it feels quite engaging.  I don't feel that I have to rev it high to get some speed, except 1st gear, which is too short.  Almost better to start from 2nd gear...  Can't comment much on the automatic, only did a test drive with that. 

Offline mlin32

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 5606
  • Carma: +65/-419
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2017 Peugeot 308 GT; 2015 Yamaha YZF-R3
Re: First Drive: 2016 Honda Civic Sedan
« Reply #141 on: November 01, 2015, 02:58:35 pm »
With the 2.5L in the Mazda the standard is great, it feels quite engaging.  I don't feel that I have to rev it high to get some speed, except 1st gear, which is too short.  Almost better to start from 2nd gear...  Can't comment much on the automatic, only did a test drive with that.
Really? I always felt nothing happened below 2750rpm, and a peek at the powerband curve charts confirmed what I suspected.

I had the automatic gearbox because the manual gearbox wasn't available at the time of purchase; the final drive was unnecessarily tall and I found myself locking out 6th gear on the autoroutes because it was often gear hunting between 5th and 6th.
ø cons: Peugeot 308: Yamaha R3 [/URL]

Offline mixmanmash

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 5240
  • Carma: +103/-326
  • member
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2014 Honda Odyssey Touring; 1993 Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo; 1990 Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo; 2009 Nissan Rogue S AWD (wife's); 2002 Mazda Protege ES-GT (retired)
Re: First Drive: 2016 Honda Civic Sedan
« Reply #142 on: November 01, 2015, 08:02:30 pm »
With the 2.5L in the Mazda the standard is great, it feels quite engaging.  I don't feel that I have to rev it high to get some speed, except 1st gear, which is too short.  Almost better to start from 2nd gear...  Can't comment much on the automatic, only did a test drive with that.
Really? I always felt nothing happened below 2750rpm, and a peek at the powerband curve charts confirmed what I suspected.

I had the automatic gearbox because the manual gearbox wasn't available at the time of purchase; the final drive was unnecessarily tall and I found myself locking out 6th gear on the autoroutes because it was often gear hunting between 5th and 6th.
The auto vs. manual probably accounts for the differences.

Offline Great_Big_Abyss

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 13922
  • Carma: +270/-457
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2019 Mazda CX-5
Re: First Drive: 2016 Honda Civic Sedan
« Reply #143 on: November 02, 2015, 09:57:09 am »
The 1.4T might be awesome, but I'll take the 1.8L Toyota engine that I know will go 400K without an issue.  If you're a leasing customer of like to change cars, go for the VW if you like, but for long term owners, it's a bit of a crap shoot.
Outta curiosity, what turbocharged engine has been unreliable?

Got to this a bit late, but...http://www.autos.ca/forum/index.php?topic=94595.0

His problem was specifically related to the turbo.  Had it been an NA engine, there would have been no problem.

Offline Hammy

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1594
  • Carma: +52/-182
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • NL Car Buying 101
  • Cars: 2019 Audi RS3, 2021 Ford F-150 Lariat, 2014 Mazda 3 GX
Re: First Drive: 2016 Honda Civic Sedan
« Reply #144 on: November 02, 2015, 09:37:22 pm »
The 1.4T might be awesome, but I'll take the 1.8L Toyota engine that I know will go 400K without an issue.  If you're a leasing customer of like to change cars, go for the VW if you like, but for long term owners, it's a bit of a crap shoot.
Outta curiosity, what turbocharged engine has been unreliable?

Got to this a bit late, but...http://www.autos.ca/forum/index.php?topic=94595.0

His problem was specifically related to the turbo.  Had it been an NA engine, there would have been no problem.

It's interesting being the poster child for turbo engine issues! If it wasn't for bad luck I'd have none at all though.

Offline Solstice2006

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 12681
  • Carma: +245/-468
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2008 Hyundai Entourage, 2007 Buick Lucerne
Re: First Drive: 2016 Honda Civic Sedan
« Reply #145 on: November 03, 2015, 07:54:48 am »
More fuel for the fire, a friend of mine has a  Cruze 1.4T, the  turbo had to be replaced at 120k.  Dealer serviced since new.  One thing the troubles me about buying a used turbo, if there are no service records, maybe the owner didn't regularly change the oil.  Which is very bad for turbos....

Offline Great_Big_Abyss

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 13922
  • Carma: +270/-457
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2019 Mazda CX-5
Re: First Drive: 2016 Honda Civic Sedan
« Reply #146 on: November 03, 2015, 09:14:54 am »
 I don't have anything specifically against turbos, however if given the choice of a larger naturally aspirated engine or a smaller turbocharged engine, given similar power outputs I'll likely go for the NA engine.  There are a couple of caveats to this:  If I'm leasing a daily driver, or plan to get rid of it in 4 years, the turbo is fine.  Or, conversely, if it's only a 'weekend' vehicle then a turbo would be acceptable too.

My problem with turbos is this:  They add another level of complexity to an engine.  It's just one more system that has the to potential to fail.  What's more, from an engineering standpoint and turbos aside, a small-displacement over-stressed engine will never last as long as a larger displacement understressed engine.  There's just no way it can.  Eventually something will reach its breaking point. 

Look at Chevy's small-block, for example.  Relative to their size, they made little power.  But they're unbelievably reliable units because of this.  The same goes for the old 5.9L Cummins.  Sure, they were turbocharged, but compared to todays diesels, it was relatively low pressure, and for the displacement, it didn't make half the torque and HP figures that todays diesels are.  And an old 5.9 Cummins will last forever. 

Offline mixmanmash

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 5240
  • Carma: +103/-326
  • member
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2014 Honda Odyssey Touring; 1993 Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo; 1990 Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo; 2009 Nissan Rogue S AWD (wife's); 2002 Mazda Protege ES-GT (retired)
Re: First Drive: 2016 Honda Civic Sedan
« Reply #147 on: November 03, 2015, 09:19:39 am »
I don't have anything specifically against turbos, however if given the choice of a larger naturally aspirated engine or a smaller turbocharged engine, given similar power outputs I'll likely go for the NA engine.  There are a couple of caveats to this:  If I'm leasing a daily driver, or plan to get rid of it in 4 years, the turbo is fine.  Or, conversely, if it's only a 'weekend' vehicle then a turbo would be acceptable too.

My problem with turbos is this:  They add another level of complexity to an engine.  It's just one more system that has the to potential to fail.  What's more, from an engineering standpoint and turbos aside, a small-displacement over-stressed engine will never last as long as a larger displacement understressed engine.  There's just no way it can.  Eventually something will reach its breaking point. 

Look at Chevy's small-block, for example.  Relative to their size, they made little power.  But they're unbelievably reliable units because of this.  The same goes for the old 5.9L Cummins.  Sure, they were turbocharged, but compared to todays diesels, it was relatively low pressure, and for the displacement, it didn't make half the torque and HP figures that todays diesels are.  And an old 5.9 Cummins will last forever.
Lol.  The internal components of these turbo engines are a heck of a lot stronger than the internals of the naturally aspirated engines.

Offline Great_Big_Abyss

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 13922
  • Carma: +270/-457
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2019 Mazda CX-5
Re: First Drive: 2016 Honda Civic Sedan
« Reply #148 on: November 03, 2015, 09:37:14 am »
I don't have anything specifically against turbos, however if given the choice of a larger naturally aspirated engine or a smaller turbocharged engine, given similar power outputs I'll likely go for the NA engine.  There are a couple of caveats to this:  If I'm leasing a daily driver, or plan to get rid of it in 4 years, the turbo is fine.  Or, conversely, if it's only a 'weekend' vehicle then a turbo would be acceptable too.

My problem with turbos is this:  They add another level of complexity to an engine.  It's just one more system that has the to potential to fail.  What's more, from an engineering standpoint and turbos aside, a small-displacement over-stressed engine will never last as long as a larger displacement understressed engine.  There's just no way it can.  Eventually something will reach its breaking point. 

Look at Chevy's small-block, for example.  Relative to their size, they made little power.  But they're unbelievably reliable units because of this.  The same goes for the old 5.9L Cummins.  Sure, they were turbocharged, but compared to todays diesels, it was relatively low pressure, and for the displacement, it didn't make half the torque and HP figures that todays diesels are.  And an old 5.9 Cummins will last forever.
Lol.  The internal components of these turbo engines are a heck of a lot stronger than the internals of the naturally aspirated engines.

On a custom built engine, I would agree with you.  But when a manufacturer is mass-producing a product, they're trying to reduce the $$$ amount per unit as much as possible, which means optimizing the amount and types of materials inside an engine.  I would argue that the margin of error inside a turbo engine is significantly less than that of a NA engine.

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 28596
  • Carma: +1376/-1726
  • Gender: Male
  • Ramblin' man
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2017 KTM DUKE 390, 2019 VW Jetta GLI 35th Anniversary
Re: First Drive: 2016 Honda Civic Sedan
« Reply #149 on: November 03, 2015, 09:51:32 am »
I don't have anything specifically against turbos, however if given the choice of a larger naturally aspirated engine or a smaller turbocharged engine, given similar power outputs I'll likely go for the NA engine.  There are a couple of caveats to this:  If I'm leasing a daily driver, or plan to get rid of it in 4 years, the turbo is fine.  Or, conversely, if it's only a 'weekend' vehicle then a turbo would be acceptable too.

My problem with turbos is this:  They add another level of complexity to an engine.  It's just one more system that has the to potential to fail.  What's more, from an engineering standpoint and turbos aside, a small-displacement over-stressed engine will never last as long as a larger displacement understressed engine.  There's just no way it can.  Eventually something will reach its breaking point. 

Look at Chevy's small-block, for example.  Relative to their size, they made little power.  But they're unbelievably reliable units because of this.  The same goes for the old 5.9L Cummins.  Sure, they were turbocharged, but compared to todays diesels, it was relatively low pressure, and for the displacement, it didn't make half the torque and HP figures that todays diesels are.  And an old 5.9 Cummins will last forever.
Lol.  The internal components of these turbo engines are a heck of a lot stronger than the internals of the naturally aspirated engines.

On a custom built engine, I would agree with you.  But when a manufacturer is mass-producing a product, they're trying to reduce the $$$ amount per unit as much as possible, which means optimizing the amount and types of materials inside an engine.  I would argue that the margin of error inside a turbo engine is significantly less than that of a NA engine.

NA or forced induction, manufacturers are going to trade off reliability/warranty claims and cost of production. I don't thing the safety margins are going to be hugely different.
On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

H. L. Mencken

Offline dougjp

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • ****
  • Posts: 2717
  • Carma: +165/-170
  • Gender: Male
  • Cars: 2019 VW Jetta GLI, 2014 Elantra GT
    • View Profile
Re: First Drive: 2016 Honda Civic Sedan
« Reply #150 on: November 03, 2015, 09:52:28 am »
Good brief article here:

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2014/12/are-turbocharged-engines-reliable-.html

However I have no doubt turbos can have proportionally higher rates of problems as the mileage rises. It makes sense as the importance of oil and fuel management vs. the high heat and excessive revs inside the turbo vs. wear (bearings) and liquid flow (oil lines primarily, but fuel flow and its computer management too).

Offline mixmanmash

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 5240
  • Carma: +103/-326
  • member
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2014 Honda Odyssey Touring; 1993 Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo; 1990 Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo; 2009 Nissan Rogue S AWD (wife's); 2002 Mazda Protege ES-GT (retired)
Re: First Drive: 2016 Honda Civic Sedan
« Reply #151 on: November 03, 2015, 10:39:25 am »
I don't have anything specifically against turbos, however if given the choice of a larger naturally aspirated engine or a smaller turbocharged engine, given similar power outputs I'll likely go for the NA engine.  There are a couple of caveats to this:  If I'm leasing a daily driver, or plan to get rid of it in 4 years, the turbo is fine.  Or, conversely, if it's only a 'weekend' vehicle then a turbo would be acceptable too.

My problem with turbos is this:  They add another level of complexity to an engine.  It's just one more system that has the to potential to fail.  What's more, from an engineering standpoint and turbos aside, a small-displacement over-stressed engine will never last as long as a larger displacement understressed engine.  There's just no way it can.  Eventually something will reach its breaking point. 

Look at Chevy's small-block, for example.  Relative to their size, they made little power.  But they're unbelievably reliable units because of this.  The same goes for the old 5.9L Cummins.  Sure, they were turbocharged, but compared to todays diesels, it was relatively low pressure, and for the displacement, it didn't make half the torque and HP figures that todays diesels are.  And an old 5.9 Cummins will last forever.
Lol.  The internal components of these turbo engines are a heck of a lot stronger than the internals of the naturally aspirated engines.

On a custom built engine, I would agree with you.  But when a manufacturer is mass-producing a product, they're trying to reduce the $$$ amount per unit as much as possible, which means optimizing the amount and types of materials inside an engine.  I would argue that the margin of error inside a turbo engine is significantly less than that of a NA engine.

NA or forced induction, manufacturers are going to trade off reliability/warranty claims and cost of production. I don't thing the safety margins are going to be hugely different.
This.  As engineering has gotten better, the margins have become tighter and tighter.

Take for example a Nissan VG30DE(TT) engine from the 90s.  You can keep the internals stock and run 600-700lbft of torque without issue.  Heck, it was even more on the 2JZ on stock bottom ends.

Now take the VQ35DE.  If you start going beyond 400lbft, connecting rods start bending.

Offline Robin2

  • Learner's Permit
  • *
  • Posts: 130
  • Carma: +4/-9
  • member
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2018 Subaru WRX, 2011 Subaru WRX sedan, 1999 Subaru Impreza RS, 1992 Mazda 323
Re: First Drive: 2016 Honda Civic Sedan
« Reply #152 on: November 12, 2015, 08:10:52 am »
Saw one this morning...  probably top end model.... love the new look.

Offline conwelpic

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 3222
  • Carma: +85/-815
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2020 Mazda CX-30 GS FWD - Snowflake white
location:  Prince Edward County, Ontario

Offline rrocket

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 76315
  • Carma: +1255/-7215
    • View Profile
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline Hammy

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1594
  • Carma: +52/-182
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
    • NL Car Buying 101
  • Cars: 2019 Audi RS3, 2021 Ford F-150 Lariat, 2014 Mazda 3 GX
Re: First Drive: 2016 Honda Civic Sedan
« Reply #155 on: November 16, 2015, 07:18:09 pm »
I'm really liking these civics, maybe I need a major change in direction from my poor 335......

Offline JohnnyMac

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 9991
  • Carma: +112/-461
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2022 Honda CR-V Sport, 2022 Honda Civic Si, 2020 Toyota Rav4 Hybrid XLE (traded in), 2020 VW Jetta GLI (Traded in), 2010 Hyundai Santa Fe Limited (sold), 2016 VW Golf R (Sold)
Re: First Drive: 2016 Honda Civic Sedan
« Reply #156 on: November 16, 2015, 07:25:19 pm »
I'm not digging the coupe, it looks too much like previous versions from the side.  The back end looks bad also, but in a unique way.

That being said, if you can get that turbo engine with a manual I might give it a second chance.

Offline OliverD

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 18752
  • Carma: +256/-775
  • Gender: Male
  • member
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2011 BMW 328i Touring, 1998 Jaguar XJR, 2024 Mini Cooper S
Re: First Drive: 2016 Honda Civic Sedan
« Reply #157 on: November 16, 2015, 08:53:04 pm »
I'm not digging the coupe, it looks too much like previous versions from the side.  The back end looks bad also, but in a unique way.

That being said, if you can get that turbo engine with a manual I might give it a second chance.

Coupe hasn't debuted yet has it?  ??? I know there was a concept version but the production version debuts at the LA show.

Offline rrocket

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 76315
  • Carma: +1255/-7215
    • View Profile
Re: First Drive: 2016 Honda Civic Sedan
« Reply #158 on: November 16, 2015, 08:54:52 pm »
I'm really liking these civics, maybe I need a major change in direction from my poor 335......

Wait for the hot Type R Civic to arrive in that case.   :thumbup:

Offline Hannibalsmith

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 4934
  • Carma: +101/-137
  • Gender: Male
  • member
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2023 Porsche Cayman GTS 4.0, 2015 BMW 335i, 2021 Toyota 4Runner TRD Offroad
Re: First Drive: 2016 Honda Civic Sedan
« Reply #159 on: November 17, 2015, 01:32:02 pm »
This car looks great in red...alas, a colour not available in Canada. Why?
I love it when a plan comes together.