Topic: Comparison Test: 2015 Toyota Corolla vs 2016 Volkswagen Jetta

[quadzilla]

I honestly think if they brought back the Corolla wagon it could outsell all other wagins today.

[johngenx]

I honestly think if they brought back the Corolla wagon it could outsell all other wagins today.

Agree.  The Mazda3 hatch sells well - I think a Corolla Wagon would do well in Canada.

[greengs]

^^ They don't look much different to me. But the flashy wheels on the Corolla look ridiculous: huge wheel gap that makes the car look like it's on stilts.

Jetta looks handsome and classy. If you're not going to lower the car, then smaller rims and taller sidewalls look 100% better.

I agree with you.  The lifted look of a lot of modern cars is awful.  I've always liked the "bland" boxy VW designs compared to stuff like this Corolla or the Elantra for example.  For looks in this segment I would say Mazda 3 now.  The new Civic with its hatch will be interesting and the 1.5L Turbo and 2.0 NA is going to be hard to beat if early reviews are any indication. 

[OliverD]

I honestly think if they brought back the Corolla wagon it could outsell all other wagins today.

You mean it would outsell the Golf? Because that's the only non-premium wagon available today so your statement isn't very bold. 

[Great_Big_Abyss]

I think Toyota needs to think about upping the power output of the Corolla.  132hp may have been competitive back when the competition all had 140hp, but it's starting to look rather anemic now that most other compacts are pushing 150-170 hp.  The Jetta with it's 150hp and (more importantly) 184 lb-ft of torque, the Mazda 3 with 155hp, and the new Civic with 150+hp from it's base engine.  Heck, even the Elantra offers 145hp with it's base engine, with an available 173hp 2.0L.

[Noto]

Sorry for the late reply.

I think some of those Jetta pics are absolutely dashing...mostly because I'm in them playing Angry Birds or something (work e-mails) while JY stood in the cold taking pictures.

My thoughts:

After an initial pause off the line, the Jetta charges away like mad, and underway the transmission manages gears smoothly, if not as efficiently or quickly as the Corolla’s CVT handles its drive ratio. However, when looking for a little more excitement, the Jetta transmission’s Sport setting really takes it up a notch (though to be frank, I find it mostly annoying). The Corolla’s CVT also benefits low-speed maneuvers in parking and stop-and-go traffic; it’s simply smoother, and at higher speeds it helps compensate for the Corolla’s lack of power.

The Jetta's transmission lag was infuriating.  I don't know if it's a German car thing or whatever, but honestly it was noticed every time I moved from a stop.

With that being said, the 1.4T is superb.  Really superb, actually.  Just gobs of power, and never really seems to run out of steam.  Perhaps above 150km/h, but I never came close to testing it.  80-120km/h passing moves were effortless and a pleasure.  That was the engine to have.

The Corolla's engine is nothing to write home about.  To all of your points above, it's been a tried/tested/true beast for years now, and has served Toyota very well.  Yes, it is in dire need of an update, but peak #s don't matter all that much.  Toyota would do well to bring a competitor to the 1.4T though, base or optional.  The turbo thrust just works really well in small cars where the engine doesn't always have to be in boost.

Ron, sorry, but I lived in Windsor and even at the worst of times, the traffic situation there and in the surrounding area (including detroit) resembles midnight in the GTA.  We also had to avoid trucks spewing clay-like mud on our shiny, clean cars, and that gave us a fuel penalty   SORRY, JY!

With uneven trims in our evaluation, it’s tempting to forgive the Jetta some of its materials faults, but this Trendline+ Jetta still rang the register at over $22K, with most of the Corolla’s price difference coming from the $3,915 Technology package that adds only simulated leather seating and a bunch of frill features that don’t fundamentally change the interior experience. Nope, this Jetta just seemed cheap, and the Corolla was comfortable and looks great.

And although the steering itself is well sorted, the steering wheel itself is a bit of a creepy, artificial plastic

Feature for feature, it could easily be a matter of preferences, the Corolla’s brilliant auto LED headlights (the Jetta’s halogens are rather weak)

The Jetta's interior materials aren't ok.  I really did like driving the Jetta more than the Corolla, but it just seemed so cheap.  Everything, down to the lack of automatic headlights and horrid brake pedal feel, just made the car feel far cheaper than its engine suggested.  I cannot imagine for a second how a single 2.0L Jetta Trendline ever sold.  Ever.

As it stands, the Jetta is nice to drive (but-for the brakes), but the liveability aspect is strongly hampered by virtue of the bean-counters robbing this vehicle of the basic tenets of what is expected in a new vehicle in 2015.  Sure, the Highline has all of those things and is a much nicer vehicle, but then again, it's more than $22k.  Much more.  And even the Comfortline doesn't ameliorate all of the issues (starting at $23,995+++).

[Great_Big_Abyss]

The Jetta's interior materials aren't ok.  I really did like driving the Jetta more than the Corolla, but it just seemed so cheap.  Everything, down to the lack of automatic headlights and horrid brake pedal feel, just made the car feel far cheaper than its engine suggested.  I cannot imagine for a second how a single 2.0L Jetta Trendline ever sold.  Ever.

As it stands, the Jetta is nice to drive (but-for the brakes), but the liveability aspect is strongly hampered by virtue of the bean-counters robbing this vehicle of the basic tenets of what is expected in a new vehicle in 2015.  Sure, the Highline has all of those things and is a much nicer vehicle, but then again, it's more than $22k.  Much more.  And even the Comfortline doesn't ameliorate all of the issues (starting at $23,995+++).

I guess the argument could be made that with a Jetta Trendline you're sacrificing a decent exterior in order to get that gem of a driveline at a $20 000 price tag.

[Noto]

I guess the argument could be made that with a Jetta Trendline you're sacrificing a decent exterior in order to get that gem of a driveline at a $20 000 price tag.

But you're not.  The Highline's interior isn't much better (the hard plastics are not changed).  The steering wheel, yes.  Brakes?  I'm not sure.  Headlights, 100% - but even the Highline makes due with Halogens compared to the Corolla's excellent LEDs.

That was my point of the $24k starting price of the Comfortline - this vehicle is so far overpriced that it cannot even be said to be "...get[ting] that gem of a driveline" for the price tag.  It's too much.

...and again, the driveline in its entirety is far from a gem - just the engine.  The transmission is .  It's unobtrusive once underway, but even then it's nothing worthy of the term "gem".  I said to JY on test day that I would absolutely love to see the 1.4T out of the Jetta with the Corolla's CVT.  THAT would be a gem of a driveline, CVT-loving or not.  The Juke's 1.6T CVT combo is well-praised in the latest comparo.

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Okay, so the Highline and Comfortline could be considered overpriced (and I'd tend to agree with you if the interior material quality is as bad as you make it out to be), but seeing as the Trendline is at $20k, AND you still get the 1.4TSI, does that negate the crappy interior somewhat in your mind?

And as for the transmission, I haven't driven it, but people's definition of a 'bad' transmission can differ.  For example, I have no problems with the performance of ZF's 9-speed in most vehicles, a transmission which is almost universally panned by journalists.

I'm really really looking forward to the New Civic launch to see how that car manages.  If they can equip it with decent materials (Civics, in my mind, have always had decent insides) AND it has the newer uprated engines, it will be a force to be reckoned with.

[Noto]

seeing as the Trendline is at $20k, AND you still get the 1.4TSI, does that negate the crappy interior somewhat in your mind?

Somewhat, yes.  That's what I mean when I say that the engine is what will sell the vehicle alone, and how they sold the Trendline 2.0 without heated front seats is beyond me.

That's the thing.  The Trendline+ trim here is liveable.  Compared to the 2006 Honda Civic, it's downright excellent, actually.  But compared to the Corolla LE Eco, or even the Kia Forte, Hyundai Elantra, Ford Focus, it just seems like a drab place to be.  Hard plastics can even be in luxury vehicles, but how they are applied matters greatly.  One touch of the steering wheel in this Jetta and it was apparent that costs were cut.  The seat fabric was ok, but other surfaces were just laughable.  The 'black' plastics were drab and greyed out (like it was washed and thrown in the dryer a few too many times).  Trust me - after feeling the turbo whoosh and the better outward visibility, I really, really wanted to like the Jetta more.  I just couldn't in that trim.  ...and that's a shame, because for its price point, and on paper, it has EVERYTHING I could want: heated seats, variable intermittent wipers, a great engine, auto up/down windows (all 4), etc.  This compares VERY favourably to the 2010 Corolla CE I'm driving.  But, and there is a but, times have changed.  This cannot be the base model any longer.

And as for the transmission, I haven't driven it, but people's definition of a 'bad' transmission can differ.  For example, I have no problems with the performance of ZF's 9-speed in most vehicles, a transmission which is almost universally panned by journalists.

You're correct, in some ways.  The 9-speed has an inherent design that provides a momentary pause that many would not find to be cause for concern.  Likewise, once underway, the Jetta's 6-speed unit is not truly a problem.  However, in terms of day-to-day driving, the lack of momentum at first jab of the pedal would prove infuriating for an owner.  Perhaps one would get used to it, but I'm not sure how.  To be honest, it's not nearly as bad as the hesitation in the 9-speed units, but it is there.  It's also not as bad as Hyundai's 7-speed DCT, but at least you get a DCT there (and the fuel economy benefits of the 9-speed unit).  Here, there's not much to love.  It's fine and likely won't be an issue, but I found it rather annoying.

I'm really really looking forward to the New Civic launch to see how that car manages.  If they can equip it with decent materials (Civics, in my mind, have always had decent insides) AND it has the newer uprated engines, it will be a force to be reckoned with.

In the same way that the current-gen Corolla made waves in terms of refinement, this new Civic will be the one to watch out for.  Having not sat in it, nor driven the new Civic, I cannot say to what degree of success it will enjoy, but I do caution the same thing as with the Jetta: the difference between lesser and higher trims will be significant.  With that being said, I do not anticipate the basic 2016 Civic to be as 'cheap'-feeling as this Jetta was. 

It was just a bit painful to sit in a car with such a peach of an engine, a beautiful HMI, and auto up/down windows, just to be so disappointed in the transmission, headlights, seats, dashtop, and brakes.

[Solstice2006]

Okay, so the Highline and Comfortline could be considered overpriced (and I'd tend to agree with you if the interior material quality is as bad as you make it out to be), but seeing as the Trendline is at $20k, AND you still get the 1.4TSI, does that negate the crappy interior somewhat in your mind?

And as for the transmission, I haven't driven it, but people's definition of a 'bad' transmission can differ.  For example, I have no problems with the performance of ZF's 9-speed in most vehicles, a transmission which is almost universally panned by journalists.

I'm really really looking forward to the New Civic launch to see how that car manages.  If they can equip it with decent materials (Civics, in my mind, have always had decent insides) AND it has the newer uprated engines, it will be a force to be reckoned with.

The only pluses I can see with the Trendline, is that VW has finally got rid of the 2L and has decent power output and fuel efficiency with the 1.4T.    It's still more expensive than a Mazda3 GX, equipped very similarly.  But the Mazda has nicer materials on the inside, a smoother transmission, and last time I checked good brakes. Power output on the Mazda isn't far off either.  Exterior looks are personal. 

I too am interested to see how the Civic will do in a comparo.

[Noto]

Power output on the Mazda isn't far off either.

On paper, I would agree with you.

...but on the road, either that 1.4T is way underrated, or those extra torques are playing some magical trickery.  The 1.4T feels VERY quick.  It is, in my opinion only, a way better engine than Mazda's 2.0L.  I am not a VW fanboi, but trust me that what JY quoted me as having said is not undeserved.  VW has made an EXCELLENT engine here.  (0-60 times listed for the Scirocco with the 1.4 TSI - unsure of transmission - is 7.9s FWIW).

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Power output on the Mazda isn't far off either.

On paper, I would agree with you.

...but on the road, either that 1.4T is way underrated, or those extra torques are playing some magical trickery.  The 1.4T feels VERY quick.  It is, in my opinion only, a way better engine than Mazda's 2.0L.  I am not a VW fanboi, but trust me that what JY quoted me as having said is not undeserved.  VW has made an EXCELLENT engine here.  (0-60 times listed for the Scirocco with the 1.4 TSI - unsure of transmission - is 7.9s FWIW).

I think VW typically underrates its horsepower and torque figures, and Yes, that much torque will certainly make itself felt. 

[Solstice2006]

Power output on the Mazda isn't far off either.

On paper, I would agree with you.

...but on the road, either that 1.4T is way underrated, or those extra torques are playing some magical trickery.  The 1.4T feels VERY quick.  It is, in my opinion only, a way better engine than Mazda's 2.0L.  I am not a VW fanboi, but trust me that what JY quoted me as having said is not undeserved.  VW has made an EXCELLENT engine here.  (0-60 times listed for the Scirocco with the 1.4 TSI - unsure of transmission - is 7.9s FWIW).

FWIW the Mazda 3 (with the 2L) does it in 7.7 sec (0-60 times).  One thing that surprised me was that the Jetta and 3 weight exactly the same.  (1297 kg)

To me, it often feels that turbos seem faster than a NA engine.  Just saying in general.... Can't comment about the 1.4T, as I have not driven it.

[johngenx]

The other day I replaced the first burnt out bulb in the Corolla - the passenger side brake light.

SO THERE VW!!

 

[mixmanmash]

The other day I replaced the first burnt out bulb in the Corolla - the passenger side brake light.

SO THERE VW!!

 

Lol.  I just replaced the headlight in my dad's 2000 ML320.  Seems like I'm replacing a bulb every year...  FGCs.

[Noto]

Power output on the Mazda isn't far off either.

On paper, I would agree with you.

...but on the road, either that 1.4T is way underrated, or those extra torques are playing some magical trickery.  The 1.4T feels VERY quick.  It is, in my opinion only, a way better engine than Mazda's 2.0L.  I am not a VW fanboi, but trust me that what JY quoted me as having said is not undeserved.  VW has made an EXCELLENT engine here.  (0-60 times listed for the Scirocco with the 1.4 TSI - unsure of transmission - is 7.9s FWIW).

FWIW the Mazda 3 (with the 2L) does it in 7.7 sec (0-60 times).  One thing that surprised me was that the Jetta and 3 weight exactly the same.  (1297 kg)

To me, it often feels that turbos seem faster than a NA engine.  Just saying in general.... Can't comment about the 1.4T, as I have not driven it.

According to LNN, it's 7.3s in the Jetta 1.4T:

The result is a 20 percent decrease in highway fuel consumption with a 0.7 second decrease in the 0-60 mph sprint (to 7.3 seconds on the recommended regular unleaded).

http://www.leftlanenews.com/new-car-buying/volkswagen/jetta-sedan/review/

[Solstice2006]

If this engine is so great, just put the 1.8T on the GLI only  Lower the Highline by $1500... As it is a $5k jump from the Comfortline...

[Noto]

If this engine is so great...Lower the Highline by $1500... As it is a $5k jump from the Comfortline...

[OliverD]

If this engine is so great, just put the 1.8T on the GLI only  Lower the Highline by $1500... As it is a $5k jump from the Comfortline...

Why would they put the 1.8T into the GLI?