Author Topic: Road Trip: 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagon TDI  (Read 13098 times)

Offline Autos_Editor

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Road Trip: 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagon TDI
« on: October 19, 2015, 06:30:43 am »

Offline Ex-airbalancer

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Re: Road Trip: 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagon TDI
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2015, 06:34:42 am »
Is this car on sale in Canada ?

Offline Railton

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Re: Road Trip: 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagon TDI
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2015, 07:02:40 am »
Is this car on sale in Canada ?
A real 'shaggy dog story' eh?
Railton
Do you realize that in about 30 (updated as requested) years, we'll have millions of old ladies running around with tattoos?

Offline JohnnyMac

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Re: Road Trip: 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagon TDI
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2015, 07:37:44 am »
Well considering the 2016 Golf family will all be getting USB ports, larger screen (standard and optional), and upgraded navigation, the major issues you mention will be addressed. 

I always laugh when someone tells me they bought a diesel vehicle to "save the planet" or "polute less".  It's a diesel, you either buy it to tow or you buy it to save on fuel.  Anyone with a lick of car knowledge should know that diesels have been and always will be the worst poluters on the road (mind you not to the extent these TDI's are reported to be poluting).  You want to save the planet, buy a electric vehicle or hybrid.

Offline MJMontreal

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Re: Road Trip: 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagon TDI
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2015, 07:38:42 am »
While the rigged TDIs aren't as clean as advertised, I am still not convinced that the overall environmental impact of a TDI is any worse than that of a Ford F-Series (the best selling vehicle in Canada and the US). I'd like to see a 100K km comparison of the two including the impact at the refinery level (gasoline vs diesel).

Offline tpl

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Re: Road Trip: 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagon TDI
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2015, 07:42:05 am »
^^^what he said
The most radical revolutionary will become a conservative the day after the revolution.

Offline Danno001

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Re: Road Trip: 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagon TDI
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2015, 08:03:04 am »
While the rigged TDIs aren't as clean as advertised, I am still not convinced that the overall environmental impact of a TDI is any worse than that of a Ford F-Series (the best selling vehicle in Canada and the US). I'd like to see a 100K km comparison of the two including the impact at the refinery level (gasoline vs diesel).
It doesn't matter. The EPA and NRCAN standards favour larger vehicles with substantial breaks the larger you get. 85% Ethanol capable is another loophole.
It ends up being one big game.
These standards were put in place under the obama reign, so no new government will change this system, republican or democrat. And let's face it, Canada has no choice but to mirror the EPA regs.

Offline quadzilla

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Re: Road Trip: 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagon TDI
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2015, 08:17:26 am »
Quote
However, the Sportwagon was more than equal to the task in this regard. Because of the requirements of pickup point and timing, we actually ended up unloading a Tiguan into the little silver wagon, with some surprising results. While bigger and heftier feeling than any Golf, the Tiguan’s carrying capacity just quailed in the presence of the wagon’s cavernous trunk.

I wonder when the 4-motion Golf wagon shows up how it will affect the sales of the Tiguan.

Offline mmret

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Re: Road Trip: 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagon TDI
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2015, 08:25:02 am »
While the rigged TDIs aren't as clean as advertised, I am still not convinced that the overall environmental impact of a TDI is any worse than that of a Ford F-Series (the best selling vehicle in Canada and the US). I'd like to see a 100K km comparison of the two including the impact at the refinery level (gasoline vs diesel).

But diesel is for furrniers and trucks are MURICA
You can't just have your characters announce how they feel.
That makes me feel angry!

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Offline JohnnyMac

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Re: Road Trip: 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagon TDI
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2015, 08:38:34 am »
Quote
However, the Sportwagon was more than equal to the task in this regard. Because of the requirements of pickup point and timing, we actually ended up unloading a Tiguan into the little silver wagon, with some surprising results. While bigger and heftier feeling than any Golf, the Tiguan’s carrying capacity just quailed in the presence of the wagon’s cavernous trunk.

I wonder when the 4-motion Golf wagon shows up how it will affect the sales of the Tiguan.

With the new Tiguan on the way I'd say it won't effect it much at all.  If you want the maximum amount of cargo space, with best fuel economy, but feel you need AWD, you'll choose the wagon with 4Motion. 

Offline Noto

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Re: Road Trip: 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagon TDI
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2015, 09:02:45 am »
For me, I really want to like VW.  It's the only manufacturer that is bringing niche vehicles that are actually useful.  I'd love the AWD wagon, much more so than the Tiguan (hilariously autocorrected to "rubbish"- thanks, Android).

But beyond the scandal of lies, I maintain 3 issues with VW:
1) pricing.
2) questionable electronics gremlins.
3) swaths of hard plastic.

The first issue would not be an issue if not for the other two.  Perhaps other competitors offer more value for the price, but undeniably VW offers better engineered performance.  I'd be somewhat willing to deal with this if resale values were higher, and this scandal doesn't help those matters much.

The second issue is one of fear.  It is not a foregone conclusion, and can be mitigated (not resolved) with an extended warranty - but therein worsens issue #1.

And the third is better in the new MQB, but still not fantastic for the price premium commanded.

Now, if I could get an AWD sportwagen with any engine at a $4,000 discount to offset the cost of a 7 year ECP, I'd very much consider biting.  I'd of course like more off, but with a longer warranty I'd be more easily persuaded.

... But when I'm spending nearly $40,000 all in on an economy car underpinning, I have difficulties with concerns for costs later in ownership time.

I don't think the above is unreasonable, and is certainly worsened with the scandal... But the engines are a true blast.

Offline JohnnyMac

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Re: Road Trip: 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagon TDI
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2015, 09:15:55 am »
For me, I really want to like VW.  It's the only manufacturer that is bringing niche vehicles that are actually useful.  I'd love the AWD wagon, much more so than the Tiguan (hilariously autocorrected to "rubbish"- thanks, Android).

But beyond the scandal of lies, I maintain 3 issues with VW:
1) pricing.
2) questionable electronics gremlins.
3) swaths of hard plastic.

The first issue would not be an issue if not for the other two.  Perhaps other competitors offer more value for the price, but undeniably VW offers better engineered performance.  I'd be somewhat willing to deal with this if resale values were higher, and this scandal doesn't help those matters much.

The second issue is one of fear.  It is not a foregone conclusion, and can be mitigated (not resolved) with an extended warranty - but therein worsens issue #1.

And the third is better in the new MQB, but still not fantastic for the price premium commanded.

Now, if I could get an AWD sportwagen with any engine at a $4,000 discount to offset the cost of a 7 year ECP, I'd very much consider biting.  I'd of course like more off, but with a longer warranty I'd be more easily persuaded.

... But when I'm spending nearly $40,000 all in on an economy car underpinning, I have difficulties with concerns for costs later in ownership time.

I don't think the above is unreasonable, and is certainly worsened with the scandal... But the engines are a true blast.
Ummm, you're complaining about hard plastics and you drive a Subaru?  The only VW someone might be able to complain about the materials is the Jetta.  Pretty much all the other offerings are at or above average as far as materials are concerned.

You mention paying $40,000 all in on an economy car underpinning, but that's looking at it in a glass half full way.  The other way to look at it is a luxury vehicle underpinning at a discount (Audi).

I've always thought that VW's resale value are some of the strongest, maybe not quite at Subaru level but on par with the Toyota and Honda products.

Reliability is always going to be a concern with German vehicles.  Life is a trade off, I could have bought a Subaru WRX STi and not have any concerns with reliability, but I'd have to live with the crap interior and ride quality.

Offline Solstice2006

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Re: Road Trip: 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagon TDI
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2015, 09:21:16 am »
^ With the specific regards to the VW Golf, I find the interiors to be one of the best.  Soft touch dash, high quality looking matte textured plastics throughout.  With VW, I find pricing is kinda case by case basis, on the Golf I find it pretty good. You get what you pay for.  Aside from the diesel premium you pay for, which is much better now (meaning when this gen was launched), compared to the previous generation.  It's just the dealers don't have much incentives (even when paying cash), or as good financing than others.  They are probably the highest in the mainstream.   With this scandal things are a little different, but not much....

Offline redman

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Re: Road Trip: 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagon TDI
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2015, 09:40:09 am »
While the rigged TDIs aren't as clean as advertised, I am still not convinced that the overall environmental impact of a TDI is any worse than that of a Ford F-Series (the best selling vehicle in Canada and the US). I'd like to see a 100K km comparison of the two including the impact at the refinery level (gasoline vs diesel).

I'm sure cutting the lawn for 1 hour exposes one to more toxins than driving a TDI from Toronto to Ottawa and back.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-51841/Why-mowing-lawn-bad-you.html
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Offline Solstice2006

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Re: Road Trip: 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagon TDI
« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2015, 09:50:47 am »
While the rigged TDIs aren't as clean as advertised, I am still not convinced that the overall environmental impact of a TDI is any worse than that of a Ford F-Series (the best selling vehicle in Canada and the US). I'd like to see a 100K km comparison of the two including the impact at the refinery level (gasoline vs diesel).

I'm sure cutting the lawn for 1 hour exposes one to more toxins than driving a TDI from Toronto to Ottawa and back.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-51841/Why-mowing-lawn-bad-you.html

Damn, guess I shouldn't bother with RRSP!  As I cut over 16 lawns every week... or about 8 hours. 

Offline redman

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Re: Road Trip: 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagon TDI
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2015, 10:01:34 am »
While the rigged TDIs aren't as clean as advertised, I am still not convinced that the overall environmental impact of a TDI is any worse than that of a Ford F-Series (the best selling vehicle in Canada and the US). I'd like to see a 100K km comparison of the two including the impact at the refinery level (gasoline vs diesel).

I'm sure cutting the lawn for 1 hour exposes one to more toxins than driving a TDI from Toronto to Ottawa and back.



Damn, guess I shouldn't bother with RRSP!  As I cut over 16 lawns every week... or about 8 hours.

You can always employ a fleet of these : https://youtu.be/2MQ-7gnw5co
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 10:13:45 am by redman »

Offline johnny2017

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Re: Road Trip: 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagon TDI
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2015, 10:53:41 am »
Had a look at our dealer's lot yesterday to see if there were any options to consider.

What amused me was that all the TDI's were parked together in a cluster, just slightly to the side of the new '16 and leftover '15 TSI's.
And no caution tape!!!

Autotrader still lists a lot of new '15 TDI's from the 2 dealers' lots in our city.

Offline lebowski

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Re: Road Trip: 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagon TDI
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2015, 12:29:19 pm »
Well considering the 2016 Golf family will all be getting USB ports, larger screen (standard and optional), and upgraded navigation, the major issues you mention will be addressed. 


^This. Brendan, considering we're well into the 2016 model year, why would you harp so much on an infotainment issue that doesn't exist anymore in the new cars?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 12:31:09 pm by lebowski »

Offline Brendan McAleer

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Re: Road Trip: 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagon TDI
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2015, 01:10:21 pm »
Well considering the 2016 Golf family will all be getting USB ports, larger screen (standard and optional), and upgraded navigation, the major issues you mention will be addressed. 


^This. Brendan, considering we're well into the 2016 model year, why would you harp so much on an infotainment issue that doesn't exist anymore in the new cars?

Well, I wrote this a while ago, before the TDIs were pulled and before the '16 cars were readily available. However, with a review like this, sometimes what'll happen is that in a year or so somebody will google "2015 Golf Wagon TDI" or something, as they're looking at a used one, and the criticisms of the infotainment will apply to that model year. Sorry if I'm harping on it, but it is pretty terrible. Have yet to see what the improved version's like.

Let me further add something semi-related to this car. I recently replaced my WRX, as it was getting a little long in the tooth and also the engine blew up (a minor inconvenience). I wanted: hatchback, power, manual, all-wheel-drive. Well, the Golf R would handle all that, right? A little pricey, but it's all there. However, I just didn't trust VW (this was, again, before the emissions kerfuffle). Sludge, coil-packs, carbon buildup in the heads: all car companies have problems, but I just didn't want to get stuck with something. I usually recommend that people lease VWs as they get costly outside the warranty period, and VW can be fussy about warranty claims. I usually prefer buying my cars and keeping them a little longer than that.

So, I ended up with an older STI hatch (Subaru has its own issues too, hello ringlands), just because of a gut feeling about the brand. I wonder how many people will simply avoid buying a VW because of brand reputation, and buy something easy like a CRV or a Camry or a Mazda3 instead.

Offline Noto

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Re: Road Trip: 2015 Volkswagen Golf Sportwagon TDI
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2015, 01:51:57 pm »
Ummm, you're complaining about hard plastics and you drive a Subaru?  The only VW someone might be able to complain about the materials is the Jetta.  Pretty much all the other offerings are at or above average as far as materials are concerned.

You mention paying $40,000 all in on an economy car underpinning, but that's looking at it in a glass half full way.  The other way to look at it is a luxury vehicle underpinning at a discount (Audi).

I've always thought that VW's resale value are some of the strongest, maybe not quite at Subaru level but on par with the Toyota and Honda products.

Reliability is always going to be a concern with German vehicles.  Life is a trade off, I could have bought a Subaru WRX STi and not have any concerns with reliability, but I'd have to live with the crap interior and ride quality.
It's funny how my Forester always comes into question when I criticize another offering.

Yes, my fully loaded (for 2011) Forester XT Limited, with literally every available option, is awash in hard plastics.  And yet, it was $35,495 (MSRP) and we got a $3,200 discount for a new vehicle (current model year - the 2012 was not available in March of 2011 when mine was leased).  The residual buy-buck was under $17,000, with tax, and total lease cost was $20,886.48 with tax.  So, I paid under $38,000 total.

...but none of that matters.  I didn't say my Forester is perfect, and I have exactly that criticism of it, among others!  I did say this about the VW in reference to the plastics:
Quote
And the third is better in the new MQB, but still not fantastic for the price premium commanded.
I just said it's not fantastic.  I drove my buddy's 2015 GTI recently and still noticed the plastic, which was better than in the Jetta lineup, but certainly not perfect.  It itself would not preclude me from buying one of these.

What would, however, is that I can get a fully loaded Forester XT for about the same price.  Or a very nicely loaded Escape, Rogue, etc - choose your CUV.  Yes, a wagon is preferable to most in these forums, but IMO (which is just that - an opinion!), the ground clearance is more important to me.  That's why I don't consider the Rav4 an option, having only half an inch more ground clearance than a Corolla!  I ploughed many roads in the Corolla in the winter in the GTA - yes, we do on occasion have more than 5.6" of snow accumulated on the roads.  Yes, the Corolla has been stuck, even with winter tires and reasonable driver's skill.

So when I say that AWD is important to me, and this Sportwagen offers it, it excites me because I can have a more fun to drive vehicle with reasonable fuel economy (with any engine), tons of cargo space compared to a sedan, and the only downside (to me) is the car-like ground clearance.  That, I can live with.

...but then based on its price, which at $35,720 for the FWD, + taxes, will exceed $40,000 when 4Motion is added (assuming Highline).  For that, I remain sceptical as to what the costs will be out of warranty due to VW's reputation - and that reputation is not feigned by me - it's enshrined at the very least in Brendan's article, which is amazing given his reputation of being a fine, fair, and clear journalist.

I wholeheartedly support your purchase of the Golf R.  If I were to consider any VW, it would be an R, and now that the Sportwagen has 4Motion, perhaps that.

...and I'd even be ok with the pricing...except I'd view an ECP as mandatory (based on the above) and it's another $3,000-$4,000.  Hence my issue of pricing - to command such a premium, or to position oneself as a premium manufacturer, I would expect a good return on my investment of a depreciating asset.  What does that entail?  A below average, or at least average, running cost.  A premium initial outlay, following by a premium at servicing or in the event of repairs, is just too costly in terms of long-term overall cost of the vehicle.

And those are just MY thoughts.  I did not write an article, publish it to the world, and expect remuneration for it.  These are the comments to Brendan's article, the subject of which is a vehicle that, in 2015, had some shortcomings worthy of constructive criticism (especially as addressed in the 2016).  I don't think mentioning that the cost is a bit high in light of reliability concerns is something that is unreasonable or unfair.