Topic: UAW members turn down Fiat Chrysler tentative agreement, move a step closer to strike position

[mixmanmash]

IIRC it is nearer 6 years for PEng.  4 year degree than working in a suitable job 'under the supervision of a PEng' for 2 years.   We had a guy came to work for us with a degree in engineering and I discovered that our division of the company had no PEng on staff... not surprising as we not in any way an engineering company.  The guy ended up leaving fairly soon.

It's 4 years under a P.Eng.  They purposely did this to keep wages low as long as possible.

[mixmanmash]

And who said they should make the same?

Start at a floor and work up. The stupidity is starting at the top and compressing wages down.

And when it comes to janitorial work, that has to be done locally. Engineering? My last company already has Indian offices that they are moving work to. They charge out the same, but the Indian engineers make Indian wages the company pockets the difference. The clients are oblivious because the PMs are good old Canadian boys.

Seen that happen where they use offices in India.

[rrocket]

Start at a floor and work up.

Well that's what the automakers are trying to do.  Start people at a lower wage and work them up.  The unions want them at full wage right from the get-go..and are 100% against Tiered wages.

So the automakers are trying to do what you suggest...but the unions are having none of it.

Nice to see you support the union's point of view on this. 

[CanuckS2K]

And once again people cheering for Canadian workers to earn less.  That's GREAT for the economy.

 

On the opposite end, manufacturing plants moving out of Canada to other Countries where labour is cheaper isn't great for the Canadian economy either.

I don't see anyone cheering.  I see people here seeing the writing on the wall with unions pricing themselves out of existence.

I wish CAW members could make $100 an hour.  But they can't and still be competitive with other countries/plants.

Yeah, I'm certainly not cheering for lower wages here in Canada, but as you're aware, if our wages are far too high compared to other places in the world, the manufacturers are simply going to pull out and then a ton of Canadians will be out of work.  Not good.  There has to be a happy medium here, and unfortunately with Unions involved, I don't see that happening.  I've been told that unskilled labour workers get paid at least $18/hr, is that accurate?

[rrocket]

$18?  Try mid $30s once you get your seniority!

[safristi]

soon MR ROBOTO will come to claim your AUTO provenance........ ...the HURT will
be enormous.... ..and down the line at any repetitive easily automated "job"

 Mc D's are introducing an auto pick line soon..and some restaurants a PAD self menu ordering
setup at the table...................soon even the default jobs,waitresses and bartenders will be
significantly reduced...ROBO pour me a double with a TWIST'ed sister on the side......

[mixmanmash]

soon MR ROBOTO will come to claim your AUTO provenance........ ...the HURT will
be enormous.... ..and down the line at any repetitive easily automated "job"

 Mc D's are introducing an auto pick line soon..and some restaurants a PAD self menu ordering
setup at the table...................soon even the default jobs,waitresses and bartenders will be
significantly reduced...ROBO pour me a double with a TWIST'ed sister on the side......

[CanuckS2K]

$18?  Try mid $30s once you get your seniority!

Holy, for unskilled labour?? 

[dirtyjeffer]

$18?  Try mid $30s once you get your seniority!

Holy, for unskilled labour??

yup...that's why all the plants are shutting down and moving elsewhere...when EMD (locomotive manufacturer) shut down in London a few years ago, it happened during a strike...the company wanted to reduce their unskilled labour workforce pay from about $36/hr down to $18 (trades were making $38/hr)...the union refused to accept the offer, the company said "take it or we leave"...the union went on strike, the company packed up and left (to Indiana).

a similar thing happened at the Kellogg's plant here a couple of years ago too...the company wanted to get rid of the 12 hour SAT/SUN shift (workers work 24 hours, get paid for 40)...this was the last plant to still have that shift (a relic from decades ago)...the union didn't want to eliminate that shift...they went on strike and a short term contract was eventually done (but i said at the time, they just cost themselves their jobs with that nonsense)...sure enough, as that contract was coming to a close, and the union was getting ready for its next round of demands, Kellogg's thanked everyone for their service and said none of them would be needed as they were close the factory.

even a few months ago, the inside city workers went on strike for 9 weeks...in the end, the deal they finally signed basically ended up similar to the offer the city had offered prior to them going on strike...all the things they said they wanted, they didn't get, and the pipe dream raises the union demanded ended up being a $56/year more...before you consider that tiny amount above what was already offered a win, they lost an average of $9000 in pay while on strike...the union is completely out of touch with reality and its members and it cost them (the members) dearly.

sadly, a TON of really good people in this area have been let go because of their jobs disappearing...while labour isn't the one and only challenge this region faces, it certainly has its moments...unfortunately, the union thinks it is still the 1950s, relatively closed markets and the sky is the limit, and their membership bear the brunt of their short sightedness.

[tenpenny]

I don't understand why people being 'offered' a 50% pay cut don't just take it and say thank you.

It will be interesting when the TPP kicks in, and all of the automotive related jobs in Ontario disappear.  I mean all, all the parts manufacturers and designers.  Gone.


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[dirtyjeffer]

I don't understand why people being 'offered' a 50% pay cut don't just take it and say thank you.

to be fair, that's a pretty big difference to swallow...i guess my thought is, if the union hadn't artificially inflated unskilled labour wages so much over the years, most of those people would still likely be employed and still making decent money.

[johngenx]

to be fair, that's a pretty big difference to swallow...i guess my thought is, if the union hadn't artificially inflated unskilled labour wages so much over the years, most of those people would still likely be employed and still making decent money.

No, they wouldn't.  Without the union, those would have been low paying jobs without benefits all along.

[tenpenny]

To be fair, if it wasn't for canadian content rules, EMD would never have had a plant in Canada in the first place.


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[johngenx]

To be fair, if it wasn't for canadian content rules, EMD would never have had a plant in Canada in the first place.

Negotiated trade to create local jobs.

[dirtyjeffer]

No, they wouldn't.  Without the union, those would have been low paying jobs without benefits all along.

maybe, maybe not...tough to tell.

considering how many people quote Henry Ford for paying his workers a decent wage, etc, he paid his labourers the equivalent of $15/hr (adjusted to today's dollar)...yes, it was a fair amount more than what others were paying, but it certainly wasn't this bastion of income many seem to imply...$15 isn't much more than our minimum wage currently is, although a few parties are proposing raising it to $17-$19/hr.

[rrocket]

$18?  Try mid $30s once you get your seniority!

Holy, for unskilled labour??

Yep. But that's not all. Per the CAW, the "all-in" figure which includes other benefits is $60-$65 hr. For unskilled labor!  It's the 2nd highest in the world apparently. Hard to be competitive with other auto assembly nations with figures like that. And frankly, it would be hard for me to blame a company who didn't want to pay that much for unskilled labor.

The CAW has never been interested in preserving jobs. Their main goal has been preserving wages. HUGE difference.

[Ex-airbalancer]

What is CAW ? Maybe unifor

[safristi]

  UNIFOR..MITY..........SENIORITY....VOTE RIGGING..BULLYING ....continue after yer 20 min smoke break
 and noon nap in the tire bin

[Sir Osis of Liver]

$18?  Try mid $30s once you get your seniority!

Holy, for unskilled labour??

Yep. But that's not all. Per the CAW, the "all-in" figure which includes other benefits is $60-$65 hr. For unskilled labor!  It's the 2nd highest in the world apparently. Hard to be competitive with other auto assembly nations with figures like that. And frankly, it would be hard for me to blame a company who didn't want to pay that much for unskilled labor.

The CAW has never been interested in preserving jobs. Their main goal has been preserving wages. HUGE difference.

Do what's fair. $10/hour? Mexico is still cheaper. And India, China, Taiwan, Indonesia etc etc. There is always someplace cheaper.

So lets get rid of the manufacturing sector altogether. Those people can always get jobs in call centres. Oh, no, I guess those low wage places have that wrapped up. How about McDonalds? No, actually a lot of those jobs are being filled with "guest workers" from the Philippines.

I'm sure there's something those guys can do right? 

 

[Railton]

$18?  Try mid $30s once you get your seniority!

Holy, for unskilled labour??

Yep. But that's not all. Per the CAW, the "all-in" figure which includes other benefits is $60-$65 hr. For unskilled labor!  It's the 2nd highest in the world apparently. Hard to be competitive with other auto assembly nations with figures like that. And frankly, it would be hard for me to blame a company who didn't want to pay that much for unskilled labor.

The CAW has never been interested in preserving jobs. Their main goal has been preserving wages. HUGE difference.

Do what's fair. $10/hour? Mexico is still cheaper. And India, China, Taiwan, Indonesia etc etc. There is always someplace cheaper.

So lets get rid of the manufacturing sector altogether. Those people can always get jobs in call centres. Oh, no, I guess those low wage places have that wrapped up. How about McDonalds? No, actually a lot of those jobs are being filled with "guest workers" from the Philippines.

I'm sure there's something those guys can do right? 

Well, what about Landscapers/grass cutters and Snow removal guys? Whoops, no, the firemen have those jobs.
Railton