Topic: Tesla Model X revealed

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I was responding to this..

 if full lithium ion EVs are going to gain traction you've got to be able to plug in almost everywhere you go. 

By saying we are almost there I meant the we do have the ability to plug in almost everywhere we go. Look at the map..Plus you can plug in any 110V outlet overnight. So that works when you stay at hotels, friends etc.

Hydro Quebec spoke person mentioned this morning that the network could accommodate 1M EV's before requiring any major investment. Since there are 7,000 EV's or so in Quebec we have a long way to go!

That's not being almost there.  People aren't going to buy a full EV on the hope that they might find a place to plug in somewhere. There needs to be a major network of public charging stations. If someone is spending 50-130k on a vehicle it needs to have a reasonable outlets to recharge.  I live in downtown Toronto and I can't remember the last time I saw a charging station.  That's not reasonable.  Same goes for hydrogen.

Why? This thing has a nominal range of 400kms. The instance where people will need anything but their home charger is going to be pretty exceptional.

you are completely missing my point.  i'm talking about EVs being a viable alternative.  how is wanting to go on a trip beyond your city limits "exceptional". 

at the price of the model X, you still won't see people running to buy an EV en masse, so it's fine and dandy having a thin network of charging stations because the traction of full EVs is very small.  besides that, if you are paying 130k bucks for a car, you might want to drive it beyond the city, like maybe from toronto to ottawa or montreal etc. i.e. use it more than just a forest hill city car.

so let's say they come out with a more reasonably priced vehicle that gets 200-250km that costs 50-60k bucks.  this implies we will need a major investment in quick charging stations so people aren't lining up to charge their cars everywhere they go. people want range.

I don't see it as an issue, certainly not in anything like the near term. The vast majority of driving is commuting and running local errands. A 2-300km range is far more than adequate for a typical day. Then the car is plugged in at home. Repeat as necessary.

The few people I know with high end cars very rarely do long car trips. They fly.

[Guy]

I was responding to this..

 if full lithium ion EVs are going to gain traction you've got to be able to plug in almost everywhere you go. 

By saying we are almost there I meant the we do have the ability to plug in almost everywhere we go. Look at the map..Plus you can plug in any 110V outlet overnight. So that works when you stay at hotels, friends etc.

Hydro Quebec spoke person mentioned this morning that the network could accommodate 1M EV's before requiring any major investment. Since there are 7,000 EV's or so in Quebec we have a long way to go!

That's not being almost there.  People aren't going to buy a full EV on the hope that they might find a place to plug in somewhere. There needs to be a major network of public charging stations. If someone is spending 50-130k on a vehicle it needs to have a reasonable outlets to recharge.  I live in downtown Toronto and I can't remember the last time I saw a charging station.  That's not reasonable.  Same goes for hydrogen. 

The Toronto area map..

Then downtown Toronto.. 47 public charging stations in downtown Toronto..

47 public charging stations is nothing.  each location usually only has one point of charging.  i'm talking about mass adoption of EVs.  47 charging stations is a joke for the population of toronto.  i guess if we keep producing model Xs nobody will care since most people won't be able to afford an EV. 

How can you say that since you have never seen one?? 

Not a single one is used right now, green flag means it's available. Most EV's get recharged at home, very seldom does one use a public charger. And that picture is today, I do not know about Toronto but in Quebec new public chargers are added daily. Much easier to install one of these than to open a new gas station....

In one year I've used public chargers less that 10 times..

And there are other EV's available than the X.

[Gurgie]

I was looking forward to this thing... now it's a big "MEH, nothing special!" 

I need something that can tow, this covers that, I need all wheel drive for slippery boat ramps, this covers that, I need something that will get me from Ottawa to Caledon to visit the family, this doesn't cover that, I need to be able to put my Thule box on the roof for ski season, this doesn't cover that... guess I'll just wait to see if they come up with something that's actually usable for my needs... until then, maybe the next Wrangler will come with a diesel 

[Northernridge]

While I don't like the model X, I do like the idea of tech companies making vehicles. I hope Google and Apple hurry up and get on with it. I expect lots of their ideas will be dopey (e.g. falcon doors) but I also think that they will most likely bring something disruptive that puts heat on traditional car makers.

[Danno001]

I pay $170 a month for electricity in my home.   It's not political,  I only use 25kw a day

I use a little under 20KWh's a day.  I pay about $100 a month for electricity.  And this includes the $40 a month that my car consumes.

I don't know how I could use less.  Never more than 1 light on (LED), 1 fridge and 1 deep freezer which I thought of getting rid of but need it.  That's it.  Just sitting idle the house seems to use 20kw a day and I don't know why.....  Seems like the water pump is the biggest consumer.

Feels like your rural distribution fixed costs cost you way more than the actual electricity cost. I take it stove, dryer, furnace heat is on propane or other fuel?

[wing]

Yup propane.   Dryer is electric but we use a clothes line in the summer.

[Guy]

I wonder about the environmental impact for manufacturing and disposing of the batteries.

Please don't bring facts into the debate...

 

Well, here is a boatload of facts... Sorry about that. 

A study from the US, 3 years, 8300 EV's 125,000,000 miles driven. And nobody stranded...

[safristi]

Ya missed the bit that said the 8,300 drivers never strayed more than 80 Kms from
 their Psychiatrist OCD and RFO (Range Fear Obsession) treatments... ..HOME  HOME on the RANGE
 where the teslas  and  BUFF -HALOS roam and never was heard (HERD!) a discharging word.....

[Guy]

Ya missed the bit that said the 8,300 drivers never strayed more than 80 Kms from
 their Psychiatrist OCD and RFO (Range Fear Obsession) treatments... ..HOME  HOME on the RANGE
 where the teslas  and  BUFF -HALOS roam and never was heard (HERD!) a discharging word.....

As long as your psychiatrist is less than 60 km from home you are fine! 

[Guy]

I was responding to this..

 if full lithium ion EVs are going to gain traction you've got to be able to plug in almost everywhere you go. 

By saying we are almost there I meant the we do have the ability to plug in almost everywhere we go. Look at the map..Plus you can plug in any 110V outlet overnight. So that works when you stay at hotels, friends etc.

Hydro Quebec spoke person mentioned this morning that the network could accommodate 1M EV's before requiring any major investment. Since there are 7,000 EV's or so in Quebec we have a long way to go!

If I was staying at a friend's place I would not ask to plug my car in 

Why not? It cost about $1.00 to recharge. You can always give him a loonie!

[rrocket]

I wonder about the environmental impact for manufacturing and disposing of the batteries.

Please don't bring facts into the debate...

 

Well, here is a boatload of facts... Sorry about that. 

A study from the US, 3 years, 8300 EV's 125,000,000 miles driven. And nobody stranded...

Funny...I've read several magazine tests where they were stranded. Either by lack of juice or by mechanical reasons. I can recall 2 stranding in articles from this year alone.

I have my doubts than anyone who REALLY believed in EVs and bought one would ever admit to being stranded anyways.

[wing]

Or they aren't so dumb as to drive past the range?

[Guy]

I wonder about the environmental impact for manufacturing and disposing of the batteries.

Please don't bring facts into the debate...

 

Well, here is a boatload of facts... Sorry about that. 

A study from the US, 3 years, 8300 EV's 125,000,000 miles driven. And nobody stranded...

Funny...I've read several magazine tests where they were stranded. Either by lack of juice or by mechanical reasons. I can recall 2 stranding in articles from this year alone.

I have my doubts than anyone who REALLY believed in EVs and bought one would ever admit to being stranded anyways.

Well, I wasn't. If it would happen, then you can call Nissan and they will tow you home or to a charging station; whichever is closest.

[Guy]

Or they aren't so dumb as to drive past the range?

Funny, I never ran out of juice on the Leaf but ran out of gas 3 times with ICE cars in 40 years. 

[Neromanceres]

I wish people also included hydro Delivery charges in  there rates
By the way I think the Volt system would work the best for our travelling patterns, wish they had a CUV with the system 
Mark

I agree that a CUV or better yet a wagon would be awesome.  My dream vehicle would be a Regal Wagon Voltec.  GM has an all new Regal on the way and rumour has it that a sedan version is not in the works.

Of note my rates I quoted included delivery charges.

http://www.kwhydro.on.ca/en/residential/residential-electricity-rates.asp?_mid_=21232

I am fortunate as our distributor is Kitchener Wilmot Hydro which is owned mostly by the city of Kitchener and a little by Wilmot township and has fairly reasonable distribution and delivery charges.

I know some home owners are getting hosed by their local distributors in Ontario.

In the Region of Waterloo, Waterloo North and Cambridge North Dumfries hydro have similar costs to us.

Also for those that think we don't pay the real cost of electricity in Ontario we do.   Power generation rates are set by the IESO in Ontario.  Many buisness pay the realtime rates and residental rates are adjusted every six months pending market conditions.  The IESO is an arms length non-profit organization.  The electricity rates we pay are not subsidized.  Contract prices for FIT solar and wind projects are rolled into the overall cost factor.  But considering that Wind and Solar are a little less than 10% of our power mix (on average) the costs are not significant.

www.ieso.ca