Topic: Tesla Model X revealed

[Neromanceres]

Well let's see environmentally.  Most electricity in Canada is produced using fairly clean methods.  In Ontario only about 10% of electricity is produced using Natural Gas the rest is Nuclear (>50%), Hydro Electric (~30%), Wind/Solar/Biomass (~10%).

Quebec is nearly 100% Hydro electric and BC has a very high percentage of hydro electric production.  Some places in the prairies and Atlantic Canada has some fairly dirty electricity however it's still cleaner than running gas or diesel.

I live in Kitchener Ontario.  After transmission costs/debt retirement charge/taxes all considered I pay an off peak electricity rate of 11.9 cents/KWh (I do 99% of my charging off peak).  My Chevrolet Volt takes 13KWh's for a full charge.  So that puts my cost at $1.54 to fully charge.  In the summer I only use ~60% of my battery on most days so my charging cost would be less than a dollar.

I drive close to 2000kms per month and I spend around $40 a month on electricity and around $20 a month on gasoline (typically) for my car.  My last vehicle cost me over $350 a month on gasoline.

I pay more for two cell phones in our household than I do for electricity (including my car).  So I never really understood the anger at the electricity rates in Ontario. Seems the hate is more political than rational.

[Red G8R]

Definitely not an SUV.  The ground clearance is no different than an average car. With all the techno gizmos, why not add an air suspension to adjust clearance.
Definitely not for me. Like other Teslas, the looks are boring.

[wing]

I pay $170 a month for electricity in my home.   It's not political,  I only use 25kw a day

[EV Dan]

I wonder about the environmental impact for manufacturing and disposing of the batteries.

Please don't bring facts into the debate...

 

Disposing of the batteries? Just let me know if any one has a battery to be scrapped. I will take it off their hands for free (I'd love some cells for my ebike) 
As a fact though, Nissan will sell you a new battery for 5-6k for as long as you give back the old one. I think they will use it for energy storage first and eventually it will be recycled. Old or new, Li-ion cells are expensive so I bet they won't be found in the city dumps any time soon.

[Neromanceres]

I pay $170 a month for electricity in my home.   It's not political,  I only use 25kw a day

I use a little under 20KWh's a day.  I pay about $100 a month for electricity.  And this includes the $40 a month that my car consumes.

[Ex-airbalancer]

Well let's see environmentally.  Most electricity in Canada is produced using fairly clean methods.  In Ontario only about 10% of electricity is produced using Natural Gas the rest is Nuclear (>50%), Hydro Electric (~30%), Wind/Solar/Biomass (~10%).

Quebec is nearly 100% Hydro electric and BC has a very high percentage of hydro electric production.  Some places in the prairies and Atlantic Canada has some fairly dirty electricity however it's still cleaner than running gas or diesel.

I live in Kitchener Ontario.  After transmission costs/debt retirement charge/taxes all considered I pay an off peak electricity rate of 11.9 cents/KWh (I do 99% of my charging off peak).  My Chevrolet Volt takes 13KWh's for a full charge.  So that puts my cost at $1.54 to fully charge.  In the summer I only use ~60% of my battery on most days so my charging cost would be less than a dollar.

I drive close to 2000kms per month and I spend around $40 a month on electricity and around $20 a month on gasoline (typically) for my car.  My last vehicle cost me over $350 a month on gasoline.

I pay more for two cell phones in our household than I do for electricity (including my car).  So I never really understood the anger at the electricity rates in Ontario. Seems the hate is more political than rational.

I wish people also included hydro Delivery charges in  there rates
By the way I think the Volt system would work the best for our travelling patterns, wish they had a CUV with the system 


Mark

[rrocket]

I pay $170 a month for electricity in my home.   It's not political,  I only use 25kw a day

I use a little under 20KWh's a day.  I pay about $100 a month for electricity.  And this includes the $40 a month that my car consumes.

you aren't paying what it costs to actually produce that energy.  in fact, it's all political. 

the model X is a big fat, over priced pig that won't make any impact into replacing the internal combustion engine.

At that price..no.  It's merely a rich person's toy.

[Guy]

Well they seem to have issues in California.

http://venturebeat.com/2015/07/25/california-fuel-cell-car-drivers-say-hydrogen-fuel-unavailable-stations-dont-work-updated/

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2015/08/20/hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-draws-attention-excitement-but-lack-of-fueling-stations-a-worry/

And you know about the Whistler BC fuel cell buses, decommissioned after a couple of years of service. The hydrogen was trucked in from Quebec.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bc-transit-s-90m-hydrogen-bus-fleet-to-be-sold-off-converted-to-diesel-1.2861060

The only appeal of the Fuel cell car is that I maintain the current paradigm of car driving, ie you have a 500 km or so of range and you can fuel it in 5-10 minutes and resume driving. It also maintain another paradigm.. The hydrogen will be distributed by the same petro companies which have taken advantage of us for many years.

Are the gas companies any worst then Hyrdo One ? Probably not   

I don't know, but Hydro Québec seem just fine. My annual electricity bill went up $200. for the year I have had the Leaf. Factor in Québec had a record cold winter (My house uses electric heating) and the 1.2% price increase, I'm not sure if my car cost me anything to run 20,000 km last year..

When is the lease up on Churchhill River2041 I wonder what will happen to your rates ? I will probably be as bad as Ontario lol

2041?? I'll be 84 then and probably drive 5K km/year. Even if they multiply electricity rate by a factor of 10, it will still be cheaper than buying gasoline. 

[Guy]

I wonder about the environmental impact for manufacturing and disposing of the batteries.

The main threat to the environnent is not the lithium, it's the green house gases.

[Guy]

I wonder about the environmental impact for manufacturing and disposing of the batteries.

The main threat to the environnent is not the lithium, it's the green house gases. And yes, the batteries can be re-used.

[Guy]

I wonder about the environmental impact for manufacturing and disposing of the batteries.

  if full lithium ion EVs are going to gain traction you've got to be able to plug in almost everywhere you go. 

In Québec, we are almost there..

[X-Traction]

BC's electricity is 90% hydro generation.  I don't know where all of the rest comes from since there's no nukes and the single natural gas plant has been mothballed.  Maybe surplus thermal generation from lumber mills or the US.  There's a very small amount of wind generation recently.  No tidal, unfortunately.

As for Tesla styling, it's a challenge to come up with something different and attractive while not penning ridiculously complex designs.   And since so many comment on Tesla styling, why does no one point out that the fake grille is fake.  Are we so conditioned that a car can't look like a car without a grille?  I guess that's a yes, since rear fender skirts are verbotten, even though they improve mileage.

[Guy]

I wonder about the environmental impact for manufacturing and disposing of the batteries.

Here's a very good video about this question. In french with subtitles..

The battery mass is only 1% lithium BTW.

https://youtu.be/4zSWTT0qCzQ

[Guy]

I was responding to this..

 if full lithium ion EVs are going to gain traction you've got to be able to plug in almost everywhere you go. 

By saying we are almost there I meant the we do have the ability to plug in almost everywhere we go. Look at the map..Plus you can plug in any 110V outlet overnight. So that works when you stay at hotels, friends etc.

Hydro Quebec spoke person mentioned this morning that the network could accommodate 1M EV's before requiring any major investment. Since there are 7,000 EV's or so in Quebec we have a long way to go!

[quadzilla]

By saying we are almost there I meant the we do have the ability to plug in almost everywhere we go. Look at the map..Plus you can plug in any 110V outlet overnight. So that works when you stay at hotels, friends etc.

Where did you get this map?

[wing]

I pay $170 a month for electricity in my home.   It's not political,  I only use 25kw a day

I use a little under 20KWh's a day.  I pay about $100 a month for electricity.  And this includes the $40 a month that my car consumes.

I don't know how I could use less.  Never more than 1 light on (LED), 1 fridge and 1 deep freezer which I thought of getting rid of but need it.  That's it.  Just sitting idle the house seems to use 20kw a day and I don't know why.....  Seems like the water pump is the biggest consumer.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I was responding to this..

 if full lithium ion EVs are going to gain traction you've got to be able to plug in almost everywhere you go. 

By saying we are almost there I meant the we do have the ability to plug in almost everywhere we go. Look at the map..Plus you can plug in any 110V outlet overnight. So that works when you stay at hotels, friends etc.

Hydro Quebec spoke person mentioned this morning that the network could accommodate 1M EV's before requiring any major investment. Since there are 7,000 EV's or so in Quebec we have a long way to go!

That's not being almost there.  People aren't going to buy a full EV on the hope that they might find a place to plug in somewhere. There needs to be a major network of public charging stations. If someone is spending 50-130k on a vehicle it needs to have a reasonable outlets to recharge.  I live in downtown Toronto and I can't remember the last time I saw a charging station.  That's not reasonable.  Same goes for hydrogen.

Why? This thing has a nominal range of 400kms. The instance where people will need anything but their home charger is going to be pretty exceptional.

[quadzilla]

I pay $170 a month for electricity in my home.   It's not political,  I only use 25kw a day

I use a little under 20KWh's a day.  I pay about $100 a month for electricity.  And this includes the $40 a month that my car consumes.

I don't know how I could use less.  Never more than 1 light on (LED), 1 fridge and 1 deep freezer which I thought of getting rid of but need it.  That's it.  Just sitting idle the house seems to use 20kw a day and I don't know why.....  Seems like the water pump is the biggest consumer.

I was curious to how much I use. Did I calc this wrong?

9.167 / day

Adjusted Usage = 568.37 kWh
Number of Days = 62

This was from Mar 27 - May 28, 2015

[Guy]

By saying we are almost there I meant the we do have the ability to plug in almost everywhere we go. Look at the map..Plus you can plug in any 110V outlet overnight. So that works when you stay at hotels, friends etc.

Where did you get this map?

www.plugshare.com

You can click on each flag and see details and pictures of the location. Some of these flags are for multiple charging stations.

[Guy]

I was responding to this..

 if full lithium ion EVs are going to gain traction you've got to be able to plug in almost everywhere you go. 

By saying we are almost there I meant the we do have the ability to plug in almost everywhere we go. Look at the map..Plus you can plug in any 110V outlet overnight. So that works when you stay at hotels, friends etc.

Hydro Quebec spoke person mentioned this morning that the network could accommodate 1M EV's before requiring any major investment. Since there are 7,000 EV's or so in Quebec we have a long way to go!

That's not being almost there.  People aren't going to buy a full EV on the hope that they might find a place to plug in somewhere. There needs to be a major network of public charging stations. If someone is spending 50-130k on a vehicle it needs to have a reasonable outlets to recharge.  I live in downtown Toronto and I can't remember the last time I saw a charging station.  That's not reasonable.  Same goes for hydrogen. 

The Toronto area map..

Then downtown Toronto.. 47 public charging stations in downtown Toronto..