Topic: First Drive: 2017 Audi A4

[ChaosphereIX]

The A4 ain't midsize.   It's compact.   A6/5/etc are midsize.

uh....no.

[Noto]

IIRC, the A4 was already the largest in the segment...(3-series, C-class), shorter than only the Q50 (which is arguably a tweener between compact and mid-size in terms of length, but compact in terms of width).

Again, IIRC, the A4 was about 186" long, whereas the 3-series is 182" and the C-class is 184".

The A4 ain't midsize.   It's compact.   A6/5/etc are midsize.

uh....no.

evil_twin is correct - the A4 is considered the 'compact' to the A6's midsize proportions.

[evil_twin]

The A4 ain't midsize.   It's compact.   A6/5/etc are midsize.

uh....no.

Hey don't shoot the messenger.   I acknowledge all cars have gotten bigger, but the 3/A4/C class is compact, 5/A6/E is midsize and 7/A8/S is full size.

The ugly truth being that though the cars have gotten bigger, I'm not sure rear sear leg room nor cargo capacity has actually grown proportionately.

[Fobroader]

So an A4 is in the same class as a Focus or a Civic??

[ChaosphereIX]

The A4 ain't midsize.   It's compact.   A6/5/etc are midsize.

uh....no.

Hey don't shoot the messenger.   I acknowledge all cars have gotten bigger, but the 3/A4/C class is compact, 5/A6/E is midsize and 7/A8/S is full size.

The ugly truth being that though the cars have gotten bigger, I'm not sure rear sear leg room nor cargo capacity has actually grown proportionately.

I stand corrected I guess. Well crap...guess I have even more ammo now in my rant against cars ballooning in size over the last decade. Always thought the A4/3 Series/C Class were midsize, the A6 etc. fullsize, and the A8 etc. ultra luxury size or whatever.

Ok, then for sure a "compact" should not be tasked with a tight back seat and cant take 4 sets of ski gear - it is a compact!

[Northernridge]

I've shopped the last couple (and current) generations of the 3 Series, A4 and C Class and have found the rear legroom to be unusable on a daily basis for adults. I would not subject a client to the rear seat of any of those cars. The E Class, A6, 5 Series provide a lot more rear legroom for grownups...and the trunks are huge. Do-you-really-need-a-wagon huge.

Having said that, these mid-sized cars are all too big.

[RaHorakhty]

I thought the days of scalable design were going to end at Audi, as per Audi head's comments in last year or two. And here we go again. Same old, same old.

[Fobroader]

I'm so confused....I always thought the A4/3 series/C class was a midsize like a Malibu or an Altima.

[ktm525]

The family car growing up was a Volvo 164 and later a Volvo 760. These sedans were able to accommodate a family of 5 on extended vacations. Now of course the increase of exterior dimensions with no corresponding increase in interior room is mostly due to safety systems. Still a shame that a large footprint car like the A4 really can't move much. Bring back the Avant at least. The new A4 is longer than the old 760.

[Northernridge]

I'm so confused....I always thought the A4/3 series/C class was a midsize like a Malibu or an Altima.

My last E Class (2009) was a tiny bit smaller that our 2005 Honda Accord (sat side-by-side in the garage) and had considerably less leg room than the Accord which was very well configured inside. My belief is that Mercedes, biases the whole interior of their smaller sedans to the front passengers which is fantastic if you are, well, in the front. My 6' 5" pals love the Berlin taxi.

[ktm525]

This is true for Volvo as well. I squished my son into the back seat of the 1800 on the weekend. 

[Northernridge]

We had a Volvo 745 wagon with the rear facing rumble seat when our kids were small.

It wouldn't win any reliability awards but it had tons of room.

[Noto]

So an A4 is in the same class as a Focus or a Civic??

That ultimately is the question, isn't it...I suppose that the traditional sizes are now in flux.

The 2009 335xi that Lady No-san's father had was 178.8" (2009 Corolla is 178.7") long...so, yeah, it was compact.  The new one being 3-4" longer...does that change things, or has the class entirely grown?

[ktm525]

I'm so confused....I always thought the A4/3 series/C class was a midsize like a Malibu or an Altima.

My last E Class (2009) was a tiny bit smaller that our 2005 Honda Accord (sat side-by-side in the garage) and had considerably less leg room than the Accord which was very well configured inside. My belief is that Mercedes, biases the whole interior of their smaller sedans to the front passengers which is fantastic if you are, well, in the front. My 6' 5" pals love the Berlin taxi.

Were they still mounting the engine longitudinal in the 2009 E class? Does Audi still do that? The major benefit to transverse mounting is the amount of cabin room it opens up (ala the Accord)

[Fobroader]

So an A4 is in the same class as a Focus or a Civic??

That ultimately is the question, isn't it...I suppose that the traditional sizes are now in flux.

The 2009 335xi that Lady No-san's father had was 178.8" (2009 Corolla is 178.7") long...so, yeah, it was compact.  The new one being 3-4" longer...does that change things, or has the class entirely grown?

Thats the thing, when someone says compact, I think Civic sized whatever.

[ktm525]

Oh I love big Sedans. Just don't like the Price or the fact they will be 1/2 that in 3 years.

[evil_twin]

So an A4 is in the same class as a Focus or a Civic??

That ultimately is the question, isn't it...I suppose that the traditional sizes are now in flux.

The 2009 335xi that Lady No-san's father had was 178.8" (2009 Corolla is 178.7") long...so, yeah, it was compact.  The new one being 3-4" longer...does that change things, or has the class entirely grown?

Thats the thing, when someone says compact, I think Civic sized whatever.

Right, but people have a perception that the FGC luxury cars are bigger (due to price?).  The 3/A4/C aren't all that much roomier (if at all) than a Civic sedan.

These are expensive cars to drive around 2 kids in the back or squeeze 2 adults (or 3 kids).

I've shopped the last couple (and current) generations of the 3 Series, A4 and C Class and have found the rear legroom to be unusable on a daily basis for adults.

Agreed.  If you're looking for a family sedan to drive 2 teenage kids and/or adults around in the rear on a daily basis, these cars are a little tight.

And honestly that's why it's so disappointing to see the death of manual transmissions in this class.   Most owners are likely not using an A4 as a daily family transport.  It's more likely just 1 or 2 occupants with rear seats available for the odd school pick-up/drop off or meal out with a few friends.   These should be sport sedans first, luxury sedans second.   If you want all the luxury trimmings, room for Timmy and Emma in the back and to not be fussed with switching your own gears, step up to a 5/A6/E class.   They're fabulous for that.

[Noto]

The major benefit to transverse mounting is the amount of cabin room it opens up (ala the Accord)

...at the cost of torque-steer and less ideal planar weight distribution.

Thats the thing, when someone says compact, I think Civic sized whatever.

[ChaosphereIX]

Oh I love big Sedans. Just don't like the Price or the fact they will be 1/2 that in 3 years.

buy CPO - miles ahead.

A friend's dad just bought a S8 V10 for about $45K with only about 20kms on the clock - a gem and in perfect shape - with an extended 5 year warranty.

I dont get buying new cars ever - especially premium ones.

[Noto]

I dont get buying new cars ever

Newest tech, 'warranty' security blanket, 'warranty' about knowing the vehicle's service /driving history.  Silly to some, financial to others, comfort to others still.