Topic: Tesla Losing $4k on Every Car Sold

[bye]

This is a sly article that manipulates data for the short-term over the long-term gain.

Exactly.

This is how I feel:
 http://gas2.org/2015/08/11/reuters-tesla-article-fails-badly-unless-intent-is-to-mislead/

The article is a blatant attempt to mislead.

[rrocket]

This is a sly article that manipulates data for the short-term over the long-term gain.

Exactly.

This is how I feel:
 http://gas2.org/2015/08/11/reuters-tesla-article-fails-badly-unless-intent-is-to-mislead/

The article is a blatant attempt to mislead.

Yea..and article by "EV Obsession" I'm sure has no bias at all, eh?   

[EV Dan]

Tesla survived the 2008 crisis, the time when they had to buy parts at near "retail" prices due to limited production numbers. No reason for concern now IMO. The moment first Panasonic cells are made in the US there will be no stopping them. Their cars will compete head to head with luxury analogs from they coal age, and will win ppl's cash more often than FGC makers can imagine 
(what bias?)

[rrocket]

Tesla survived the 2008 crisis, the time when they had to buy parts at near "retail" prices due to limited production numbers. No reason for concern now IMO. The moment first Panasonic cells are made in the US there will be no stopping them. Their cars will compete head to head with luxury analogs from they coal age, and will win ppl's cash more often than FGC makers can imagine 
(what bias?)

I read an article where it says they won't turn a profit until 2020.  And it was Musk saying that himself.

That has to be a bit of a reason for concern IMO.

Plus they are offering more stock to try and raise $500 million   http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-500-million-stock-offering-2015-8

[EV Dan]

No one denies they are short on cash since they are building a Giga- factory, a Super- charging network and I imagine a costly production line for their second model (it would hurt less if it was 12th and other 11 were selling at the time), while developing another one (Model III). Big plans need big money (hence stock sale), yet taking big but justified risks is what sets brilliant business people apart from the rest of us.

[CSH]

Amazon barely makes profits or makes small losses but it thrives, is respected for it's innovation and is now giving best buy, walmart etc a run for its money. I compare this to Telsa, they are the pioneers in this field and are now forcing the i5's and the Audi etrons and the bolts to be manufactured. I am happy that people are paying premium for the P85D so that TELSA can make model III a reality.

My only Fear for TELSA is that they are betting very big on the gigafactory to lower the price of batteries. If LG or other manufacturers supply batteries of similar specs to other auto companies (Hyundai, Audi, BMW, Nissan etc) then they may not have the pricing advantage anymore and face a lot of competition. If it becomes a volume game for battery cost it will be hard for TELSA to compete with the GM's and Toyota's of the world with their dealer network etc.

The good thing that has come out of it is in less than 5 years we will all be able to buy a <$40,000 all electric car with atleast 200 mile range. Also no ICE will result in lower maintenance cost and no fuel cost. A very 2nd car option for a lot of families.

It is hard to deny that TELSA accelerated this change which is very positive overall for everyone

[EV Dan]

Amazon barely makes profits or makes small losses but it thrives, is respected for it's innovation and is now giving best buy, walmart etc a run for its money. I compare this to Telsa, they are the pioneers in this field and are now forcing the i5's and the Audi etrons and the bolts to be manufactured. I am happy that people are paying premium for the P85D so that TELSA can make model III a reality.

My only Fear for TELSA is that they are betting very big on the gigafactory to lower the price of batteries. If LG or other manufacturers supply batteries of similar specs to other auto companies (Hyundai, Audi, BMW, Nissan etc) then they may not have the pricing advantage anymore and face a lot of competition. If it becomes a volume game for battery cost it will be hard for TELSA to compete with the GM's and Toyota's of the world with their dealer network etc.

The good thing that has come out of it is in less than 5 years we will all be able to buy a <$40,000 all electric car with atleast 200 mile range. Also no ICE will result in lower maintenance cost and no fuel cost. A very 2nd car option for a lot of families.

It is hard to deny that TELSA accelerated this change which is very positive overall for everyone

I wonder if Korean made cells have some import tax or duty. Tesla reportedly will make new cells slightly bigger, specifically 20mm by 700mm. It is only one of the ways to make them cheaper per kWh.

[CSH]

Import duties would not be a consideration one way or the other sooner or later..
The technology behind the battery is the game changer

[CSH]

I was referring to the following comment  "Tesla reportedly will make new cells slightly bigger, specifically 20mm by 700mm"

My point was that TELSA cannot survive long just on the basis of import duty restrictions on froeign made batteries..  Their battert technology has to be different if they need to survivie

[johngenx]

elon is quite a salesman though.  he says the losses keep piling up because of the development costs of the gigafactory and the development costs of the model x & model 3 then he springs a 683 million dollar dilution of their stock and the stock goes up.  it's mind boggling.

I know a few people that have stock.  They are well off folks that haven't risked anything they can't walk away from.  What they see is two-fold:

1. This guy is is trying to change the way things work and how people think - and for the better.  The vision is about long term change - not quarterly profits.  This is long game.

2. It might be the next Google - and then who will be laughing?  No one saw the potential of a search engine (how do you monetize it?) and now the people that got in early are looking like visionaries.

[Snowman]

Elon can't change the world because its too late. There are much much much bigger issues to resolve and EV's are only a drop in the bucket. Any real change in how humans are destroying the planet will take one or two generations.

[rrocket]

Plus he thinks robots and drones will wipe out humanity!   

[bye]

asking not to use supercharging stations after telling everybody they are free to use emphasizes one of the many issues  ... In fact they haven't built one yet in downtown Toronto so that won't be a problem for us up here.

The didn't tell everybody, a small percentage of owners got a letter regarding their supercharging habits. 
I didn't get one, and have supercharged a lot in the last month.

they haven't built one yet in downtown Toronto so that won't be a problem for us up here.

Supercharged our Tesla in Toronto yesterday on the way back home.  Very convenient and easy to add 200 km of range in the time it took us to get a snack at Timmies.

[rrocket]

The didn't tell everybody, a small percentage of owners got a letter regarding their supercharging habits. 

Still....it's somewhat bad business.  The slogan was "free forever".  And from their website "“Customers are free to use the Supercharger network as much as they like.” They tout and talk up the superchargers like mad, then they tell certain owners to curb their use?  Tesla was supposed to be different.  This move strikes me as no different than any other corporation.

[Guy]

Some owners were parking their cars at the charging stations, leaving them there and blocking other owners in need of a charge. Electricity cost is so low, iI doubt very much it was a factor.

[rrocket]

Some owners were parking their cars at the charging stations, leaving them there and blocking other owners in need of a charge. Electricity cost is so low, iI doubt very much it was a factor.

I read several of the posts.  Something must be screwy in how they determined who got a letter.  One guy had used the charger ~4 times in 9,000 miles.  Another just a couple times in 18 months.

They both got the letter.  And were offended.

[bye]

The gigafactory will reduce battery costs enough to make the Model 3 priced similar to a BMW 3xx. 
There is a gaping hole in the market for a mid-priced premium sedan with performance and 400 km real world range.

[CSH]

maybe E cars of the future will never need to stop for re-charging http://money.cnn.com/2015/08/18/technology/uk-electric-cars-roads/index.html

[bye]

How will the giga factory reduce costs to the point that they will be able to make money on a car the same size as the i3?   

Right now, Tesla's battery costs are half those of it's competition, without the gigafactory.
Elon Musk states that the minimum cost improvement is 30% with gigafactory.

That puts a battery ~2.5 times the range of it's competition into a car the size/scope/cost of it's competition.

[rrocket]

How will the giga factory reduce costs to the point that they will be able to make money on a car the same size as the i3?   

Right now, Tesla's battery costs are half those of it's competition, without the gigafactory.
Elon Musk states that the minimum cost improvement is 30% with gigafactory.

That puts a battery ~2.5 times the range of it's competition into a car the size/scope/cost of it's competition.

Link?