Topic: Comparison Test: 2015 Hyundai Genesis 3.8 versus 2015 Lexus GS 350 AWD

[JacobBlack]

    ^ FFS man, I give up with you.  You win, everyone that purchases a certain brand is all about impressing someone else.

FFS yourself buddy. Not once, in ANY post, have I EVER said anything is ever "all about impressing someone" - merely that impressing people is a factor in many purchases, even if only subconsciously. Don't deliberately misrepresent me just to make your point stronger. 

And anyway, I'm not talking about Lexus vs Genesis - you're totally right, that is very, very much about a lot of different things.

I'm talking about someone who WOULD buy a Hyundai Genesis, but only if it wasn't called a Hyundai.

[Guy]

I'd argue that every single thing we buy that is anything beyond the minimum required to get the task done is some form of self-expression...basically, we're trying to impress ourselves. Which is worse than trying to impress others...and the entire reason that marketing works. Thank Christ.

Human nature...embrace it and profit from it.

Well I'm afraid that at least 50% of BMW's I see on the streets are not driven anywhere near where you can feel the difference in handling with a previous gen Avalon. So, if they never push the performance enveloppe onf their cars, why did they buy a BMW? To get a small interior and be jarred by run flat tires and a stiff suspension? 

[Fobroader]

I'd argue that every single thing we buy that is anything beyond the minimum required to get the task done is some form of self-expression...basically, we're trying to impress ourselves. Which is worse than trying to impress others...and the entire reason that marketing works. Thank Christ.

Human nature...embrace it and profit from it.

Well I'm afraid that at least 50% of BMW's I see on the streets are not driven anywhere near where you can feel the difference in handling with a previous gen Avalon. So, if they never push the performance enveloppe onf their cars, why did they buy a BMW? To get a small interior and be jarred by run flat tires and a stiff suspension? 

I was held up on an on ramp this weekend by a guy with an M3.....while pulling my trailer....so yeah I get what you are saying.

[JacobBlack]

I was held up on an on ramp this weekend by a guy with an M3.....while pulling my trailer....so yeah I get what you are saying.

Sorry, was perving on you in my rearview mirror and got distracted...

[CanuckS2K]

    ^ FFS man, I give up with you.  You win, everyone that purchases a certain brand is all about impressing someone else.

FFS yourself buddy. Not once, in ANY post, have I EVER said anything is ever "all about impressing someone" - merely that impressing people is a factor in many purchases, even if only subconsciously. Don't deliberately misrepresent me just to make your point stronger. 

Any anyway, I'm not talking about Lexus vs Genesis - you're totally right, that is very, very much about a lot of different things.

I'm talking about someone who WOULD buy a Hyundai Genesis, but only if it wasn't called a Hyundai.

But why can't you accept the fact that some people simply buy stuff for themselves with no subconsciously BS as you proclaim. 

If I test drove the Genesis and it was the vehicle I liked the best, I couldn't care less if it was a freakin' Hyundai or whatever other hood symbol was attached to the hood.  I have two Hondas and a Nissan in my garage, so it's not like I'm a badge whore. 

[Fobroader]

I was held up on an on ramp this weekend by a guy with an M3.....while pulling my trailer....so yeah I get what you are saying.

Sorry, was perving on you in my rearview mirror and got distracted...

 

[JacobBlack]

But why can't you accept the fact that some people simply buy stuff for themselves with no subconsciously BS as you proclaim. 
If I test drove the Genesis and it was the vehicle I liked the best, I couldn't care less if it was a freakin' Hyundai or whatever other hood symbol was attached to the hood.  I have two Hondas and a Nissan in my garage, so it's not like I'm a badge whore.

I can!
The fact you can buy a Genesis regardless of the badge is awesome, the example given was if someone decided to not to buy a car JUST because it was called a Hyundai - in that case, THAT hypothetical person, is a badge whore. We're talking about a specific example.

Many people will buy the Genesis regardless of the badge, because those people are clever people.
Some people would only buy it if it had a "luxury brand" name behind it, which is silly - this is the point I'm making.

I think pretty much everyone on this forum would buy it if they liked it better, we're lucky to have a forum pretty much devoid of badge whores.

[Ontariodriver]

I think pretty much everyone on this forum would buy it if they liked it better, we're lucky to have a forum pretty much devoid of badge whores.

 

[Northernridge]

What? I call bull$hit on the no badge whore thing.

Fanboy = badge whore
Hater = whore to some other badge

At minimum, we're all a bunch of little badge whore-lets. 

[Fobroader]

But why can't you accept the fact that some people simply buy stuff for themselves with no subconsciously BS as you proclaim. 
If I test drove the Genesis and it was the vehicle I liked the best, I couldn't care less if it was a freakin' Hyundai or whatever other hood symbol was attached to the hood.  I have two Hondas and a Nissan in my garage, so it's not like I'm a badge whore.

I can!
The fact you can buy a Genesis regardless of the badge is awesome, the example given was if someone decided to not to buy a car JUST because it was called a Hyundai - in that case, THAT hypothetical person, is a badge whore. We're talking about a specific example.

Many people will buy the Genesis regardless of the badge, because those people are clever people.
Some people would only buy it if it had a "luxury brand" name behind it, which is silly - this is the point I'm making.

I think pretty much everyone on this forum would buy it if they liked it better, we're lucky to have a forum pretty much devoid of badge whores.

It would be great if that were true....but no.......

[JacobBlack]

:surrender:

We have badge whores - but not everyone is a badge whore, and even badge whores don't always buy the brand to impress others... am I there yet?

[DriverJeff]

So, there's a $20k SRP difference between these two cars. I wonder how the margins compare and, if they are about the same, what (if any) material differences has Lexus built in to the GS for the extra $20k. Or the inverse, what has Hyundai left out (if anything)?

Cynics will say 'marketing' but the GS didn't cost $20k more than the Genesis to promote. Is there $20k in additional value in materials...technology...features...R&D?

Could it be efficiency...has Hyundai figured out how to build the same car as Lexus for $20k less...and learned how in a fraction of the time? Maybe, but it would seem un-Toyota-like for Lexus to be that bad at manufacturing.

Again, if the margins are about the same and the Lexus costs $20k more, where'd the money go?

People sometimes say that you get what you pay for...does it hold true here?

Thats my main issue, there is no way you are going to convince me that the Lexus is worth an extra $20K for any reason. Its not like its got twice the power,gets twice the mileage, has some advanced features that Hyundai can't even begin to explain or somehow is built $20k better. Even the badge, its a Lexus, this isn't a Maybach or something.

I'm not arguing that it's worth $20k more, I'm asking where that money is.

A would expect that some of that money is stuff under the skin.

Like what, Lexus uses better plastics, hardware or wire??

Put both up on a hoist.

Yup, and we'd likely see a few things there.  Also, as I mentioned in the review, there are a few other things like the door sills, the way the plastic airbag cap on the steering wheel doesn't align flush with the Hyundai's column the way it does on the Lexus, etc. that one notices when the two cars are examined under a microscope. 

There's also a whole separate dealership experience (which I also referenced) that may make the Lexus worth (and cost) a lot more money too. 

And of course the badge. 

But when comparing apples to apples with these two cars, is there really $20k of tangible benefit to the Lexus?  Are a handful of details and a dealership experience worth $20k to you?  If the Genesis drove poorly or had some glaring flaw, it would be easier to justify that gap, but it is an exceptional, well-built machine that is luxurious in feel and truly excellent to drive. 

[rrocket]

Lexus attention to detail for stuff under the skin borders on OCD. For example, in my LS, many of the electronic connectors were gold plated.  Having poked around my GS, there are really nice engineering touches...stuff that makes you say "wow, cool!".  I've found several of these little things in IQ's IS too.

I have no idea if this applies to the new GS..or even the Hyundai.  But on the Lexus we've owned..that's been the case.


Jeff....I also think the peerless long-term reliability of the Lexus is worth some extra $$$$.  Or lots depending on the brand you're comparing it to.


Lexus tops by a wide margin for a 3 year old vehicle....Hyundai near the bottom.

[CanuckS2K]

But why can't you accept the fact that some people simply buy stuff for themselves with no subconsciously BS as you proclaim. 
If I test drove the Genesis and it was the vehicle I liked the best, I couldn't care less if it was a freakin' Hyundai or whatever other hood symbol was attached to the hood.  I have two Hondas and a Nissan in my garage, so it's not like I'm a badge whore.

I can!

Actually, you can't. 

A couple of snippets from the other thread that you posted.

I think it's all well and noble to claim that one doesn't do anything with status or other people's perception of them in mind, but it's also massively deluded.

How do you know what goes through other people's minds when they decide to purchase one item or another?   You're claiming something as fact when simply it's just your opinion.

Unless, all your jeans are the same colour and shape, and all your shirts are the same colour of bonds t-shirts and all your shoes are work boots, you've considered how that thing you bought appears to others.

And again maybe......just maybe some folks like to look good for themselves and themselves ONLY and not to impress anyone else.  Strange concept eh? 

Yep. Unless you spend a lot of time looking at yourself in the mirror, "looking good" means "other people will enjoy looking at me".


Same comment as my last post. 


Bought with not even any sub or semi-conscious thought to how other people would respond to it? Absolute bollocks.

And again, you seem to think you know why everyone buys what they buy, even subconsciously.  I don't care one bit how anyone around me responds to any of my purchases.

My point is that some people just don't give a sh!t what others think when they purchase something and in no way it becomes part of their buying decision. 

[rrocket]

But why can't you accept the fact that some people simply buy stuff for themselves with no subconsciously BS as you proclaim. 
If I test drove the Genesis and it was the vehicle I liked the best, I couldn't care less if it was a freakin' Hyundai or whatever other hood symbol was attached to the hood.  I have two Hondas and a Nissan in my garage, so it's not like I'm a badge whore.

I can!

Actually, you can't. 

A couple of snippets from the other thread that you posted.

I think it's all well and noble to claim that one doesn't do anything with status or other people's perception of them in mind, but it's also massively deluded.

How do you know what goes through other people's minds when they decide to purchase one item or another?   You're claiming something as fact when simply it's just your opinion.

Unless, all your jeans are the same colour and shape, and all your shirts are the same colour of bonds t-shirts and all your shoes are work boots, you've considered how that thing you bought appears to others.

And again maybe......just maybe some folks like to look good for themselves and themselves ONLY and not to impress anyone else.  Strange concept eh? 

Yep. Unless you spend a lot of time looking at yourself in the mirror, "looking good" means "other people will enjoy looking at me".


Same comment as my last post. 


Bought with not even any sub or semi-conscious thought to how other people would respond to it? Absolute bollocks.

And again, you seem to think you know why everyone buys what they buy, even subconsciously.  I don't care one bit how anyone around me responds to any of my purchases.

My point is that some people just don't give a sh!t what others think when they purchase something and in no way it becomes part of their buying decision. 

Shane...I hear you're building a brewery just to impress people....

[JacobBlack]

My point is that some people just don't give a sh!t what others think when they purchase something and in no way it becomes part of their buying decision. 

Yes and I already conceded this point in the other thread.
RE THIS thread, which you seem now hell bent on deliberately ignoring the facts of, is that if someone chooses not to buy a car purely because of the name of it, that's done purely to impress someone and is stupid.

[wing]

After owning two Lexus now.   I understand even more than  before.

The little details are everywhere and good engineering practices as well.

Little things like foot well and door lighting and adjustability.

But unlike the Germans they don't give you infinite adjustments,  but they go with what just makes sense.

I actually did at night is when the little touches come out the most.

[aquadorhj]

My point is that some people just don't give a sh!t what others think when they purchase something and in no way it becomes part of their buying decision. 

Yes and I already conceded this point in the other thread.
RE THIS thread, which you seem now hell bent on deliberately ignoring the facts of, is that if someone chooses not to buy a car purely because of the name of it, that's done purely to impress someone and is stupid.

I was ambivalent until this post.

Now I'm with Shane, because let's say I don't buy BMW because of my past experience or my neighbors\friemds\familys .  instead I buy Lexus.  That means I'm not buying BMW purely bacause of the name\brand.  That has nothing to do with impressing others.

[Kris78]

My point is that some people just don't give a sh!t what others think when they purchase something and in no way it becomes part of their buying decision. 

I'd argue that every single thing we buy that is anything beyond the minimum required to get the task done is some form of self-expression...basically, we're trying to impress ourselves. Which is worse than trying to impress others...and the entire reason that marketing works. Thank Christ.

Human nature...embrace it and profit from it.

I put these quotes together as I think many people are agreeing and not noticing!

Every car purchasing decision beyond the bare necessities of transportation has to be some form or self expression. If I put two options in front of you, and you chose one, there had to be a reason for it, right?

For some - like CanuckS2K - they may take a purely pragmatic approach of which car they like more. Badge or no. This is expressing a value, but it isn't being a badge whore per se.

Confession: I am kind of a badge whore.

There are some brands I really like, and some I dislike. I like the fact that my Civic is built in Canada, has a strong reputation for quality, is fun(ish) to drive 'cus its a Honda Civic and that is the way they are, right? Marketing. With some facts. Some.

And I think I'm in the majority. Just look at the sales charts - it isn't a list of vehicles based on merit.

[JacobBlack]

I was ambivalent until this post.

Now I'm with Shane, because let's say I don't buy BMW because of my past experience or my neighbors\friemds\familys .  instead I buy Lexus.  That means I'm not buying BMW purely bacause of the name\brand.  That has nothing to do with impressing others.

You're right, that is another reason someone might choose not to buy something called a "Hyundai" for example, and it would be a solid reason. But just renaming the brand wouldn't fix that, so if they then went and bought a "Genesis Sedan" because it was called a Genesis instead of a Hyundai, that would still be silly. In that case, it would just be about prestige labels, and not about anything else.