Topic: Comparison Test: Honda Odyssey vs Kia Sedona vs Toyota Sienna

[tooscoops]

yeah, they have come too far to write them off... as a salesman, sure i use that line of reasoning all the time, but in reality, they make a pretty solid car... they just have strengths in different area than the honda or toyota.

funny going back to the old comparison in 13... you guys have found a way to cover a little more and relate more usable info now... good job!

anyway, even though the t&c is too outdated to compete in this group, figured i'll add the pricing for it if anyone really wanted to look at one of those new... the top of the line limited with every option possible selected has a price (just with incentives off) of 45804 including freight. obviously room to discount, but so do those prices listed in the comparison. tough to justify against the competition, but for some people, it's still what they want.

[mixmanmash]

As a long-term minivan owner since 2003 (two Odysseys and one MPV as 2nd car for a few years), after 6 seconds in the Kia I just said "No.", and so did a good number of dads around the van at the Auto Show in January. The Sedona has the same issue the Quest had: minivan exterior, SUV interior. People buy vans for the room and utility, not for their looks. Remove the ability to move from 1st to 2nd row, remove 3rd row room and make the 2nd row nearly unremovable and you have a terrible van. Had I been on that comparo, my scores would have sent the Kia deeper in 3rd place.

Just did a 1200km stint in my Ody, still don't understand the numb steering comment from Jacob (10.6 l/100km, loaded to the windows with cargo, through New England mountains).

Ody vs Sienna is pretty much a draw, and personal opinions will vary per trim. I loved the SE, but it was pricier than my Ody EX, while the price-matched Sienna LE looked much cheaper inside. The 'yota has a few flaws, like 3rd row hinges resting on the floor in the rear well, and poor storage prior to the recent redesign of the interior. I also don't like the grey plastics in the Honda, the reason why I got a black one - they come in taupe colour scheme, very Audi-esque in its difference from the usual beiges and greys (my previous Ody had the likewise unique olive interior).

This.  I had a new Sedona as a rental a few months back while on vacation.  SUV interior with a minivan exterior is absolutely the best description.  And I totally don't get the Odyssey loose steering issue.  Definitely never was as present as Jacob seems to be describing on my Odyssey.  I wonder if there was something else  wrong with the test vehicle.  It was a little there until the OEM tires wore down (after 5kish kms), but not so loose to be dangerous or cause concerns with heavy cross winds).

Sienna interior was a let down when I was looking.   Now that Toyota fixed it, it would have been harder for me to decide.  But one thing in my honest opinion is that comparing similar trim levels (Touring vs. Limited in my case), Odyssey drove way more like a car than the Sienna.  The third row is more comfortable as well.  Having twins in rear facing seats at the time made the Odyssey the more obvious choice as I could put them side-by-side in the middle row, while still having the other seat free to flip forward to gain access to the third row.  Try doing that in any of the other minivans that only offer captain's chairs in the third row.  Makes third row access difficult, if not impossible.  I know it would be impossible in the Kia and Grand Caravan.  The Sienna would have been a bit better since the captain's chairs have more travel.  So using LATCH with the car seat would allow you to slide it back, to allow entry and then one would have to slide the seat forward to get into the third row.  A little awkward, but doable.

We recently had some friends visit from Florida with their 6mo old daughter.  We all fit in the Odyssey - my 2 girls in the middle row next to each other in forward facing seats, their daughter in the third row with a rear facing seat.  We fit 8 people in the van including the 3 kids in child seats!

As well, Sienna offers 2 sunroofs in the top trim and still maintains the flip down DVD screen.  I still like the idea of having the DVD screen as I can control when, how much and what my kids are watching.  In the Odyssey, it has a HDMI port so I can still connect my tablet to it and play videos off of it.

[vasyapirh]

The Sedona has the same issue the Quest had: minivan exterior, SUV interior.

bingo... When I was shopping for the van that was the reason why i did not consider Sedona.

[vasyapirh]

The Kia is a budget van plain and simple and it shows.

not the new one.

[dirtyjeffer]

The Kia is a budget van plain and simple and it shows.

not the new one.

exactly...while it didn't win the comparo, it is still impressive that it hangs with the Sienna and Odyssey...to me, that is a very good achievement, especially considering the previous generation.

[dkaz]

Ontariodriver doesn't like anything that isn't Toyota or Honda.

[Snowman]

Ontariodriver doesn't like anything that isn't Toyota or Honda.

Ontariodriver is aka Mr. Meow. He has proven to be a complete moron over the years and any post he/she makes should be ignored as most regulars do.

[mixmanmash]

Ontariodriver doesn't like anything that isn't Toyota or Honda.

Ontariodriver is aka Mr. Meow. He has proven to be a complete moron over the years and any post he/she makes should be ignored as most regulars do.

There should be a running list of usernames...

[tooscoops]

The Kia is a budget van plain and simple and it shows.

not the new one.

exactly...while it didn't win the comparo, it is still impressive that it hangs with the Sienna and Odyssey...to me, that is a very good achievement, especially considering the previous generation.

while true, the big reason for it originally being a budget van was because... well, you could buy it on a budget.. it was less money for the same type of options...

now, at about 48g's (with i think 1 grand discount for cash purchases), it is the same money for maybe a couple little tricks up it's sleeve, but it is no longer any less money... so it should compete. i don't think just being competitive at the same price is much of an accomplishment. competitive and cheaper, sure... but being not too much worse and not saving any money seems kinda silly.

[dirtyjeffer]

while true, the big reason for it originally being a budget van was because... well, you could buy it on a budget.. it was less money for the same type of options...

now, at about 48g's (with i think 1 grand discount for cash purchases), it is the same money for maybe a couple little tricks up it's sleeve, but it is no longer any less money... so it should compete. i don't think just being competitive at the same price is much of an accomplishment. competitive and cheaper, sure... but being not too much worse and not saving any money seems kinda silly.

you are looking at it wrong...Kia has been trying to bring its products up market...from a used car alternative a decade ago, to actual well made, nicely featured affordable vehicles that hang with the dominant players, is a success...they've been making cars for many decades less than the biggest players, but are starting to hold their own in the market...i'm not saying their perfect, just that they have done a great job not only in bringing solid products to the market, but also forcing the hands of its (complacent) competitors to up their game as well...eve if you don't buy a Kia/Hyundai, you can thank them for features like NAV and heated seats (possibly even heated steering wheel) being available in cars like the Corolla and Civic...it's a win for consumers either way...while many will still likely pick the Honda/Toyota, having a strong competitor in the market helps make their products better too...that's how i meant it.

[dkaz]

I just noticed something on the Sedona page on www.kia.ca :


"Available 8 passenger seating"

I count 11 seats.

[tooscoops]

while true, the big reason for it originally being a budget van was because... well, you could buy it on a budget.. it was less money for the same type of options...

now, at about 48g's (with i think 1 grand discount for cash purchases), it is the same money for maybe a couple little tricks up it's sleeve, but it is no longer any less money... so it should compete. i don't think just being competitive at the same price is much of an accomplishment. competitive and cheaper, sure... but being not too much worse and not saving any money seems kinda silly.

you are looking at it wrong...Kia has been trying to bring its products up market...from a used car alternative a decade ago, to actual well made, nicely featured affordable vehicles that hang with the dominant players, is a success...they've been making cars for many decades less than the biggest players, but are starting to hold their own in the market...i'm not saying their perfect, just that they have done a great job not only in bringing solid products to the market, but also forcing the hands of its (complacent) competitors to up their game as well...eve if you don't buy a Kia/Hyundai, you can thank them for features like NAV and heated seats (possibly even heated steering wheel) being available in cars like the Corolla and Civic...it's a win for consumers either way...while many will still likely pick the Honda/Toyota, having a strong competitor in the market helps make their products better too...that's how i meant it.

oh i do agree... i think they make a good car. they have their issues, but so does every brand. and yes, they have come a long way and the consumers are (sort of*) benefiting.

but i wouldn't say i'm looking at anything "wrong"...

yes, a good car....

BUT... no less money for a car that based on every review is close to equal to it's competition... that does not compute... either it should be cheaper and worse, the same price and equal, or better and more expensive... that's how value works. you find cheaper and better, you win! you get more expensive and worse, you lose.

the sedans, the style is what makes it still a value option... in a van, the style is not going to be important enough to bump its value proposition (to many)...

*is it really benefiting anyone when brands are finding ways to cheapen all their options so that they can afford to put it on cars? for example, would you prefer nav to only be on top end cars but be amazing, or put it on entry levels and be crappy and outdated?

just my opinion. ymmv of course

[Noto]

I just noticed something on the Sedona page on www.kia.ca :


"Available 8 passenger seating"

I count 11 seats.

Photoshop fail at its finest.

[Fobroader]

I just noticed something on the Sedona page on www.kia.ca :


"Available 8 passenger seating"

I count 11 seats.

Thats like a mini Hutterite van....

[dkaz]

I count 11 seats.

Photoshop fail at its finest.

Yea, they forgot to photoshop out the fourth row the Koreans get. lol. I wonder why we don't get four rows here? Could be a safety thing but there are questionable third rows in some vehicles including my old Mazda 5.

Thats like a mini Hutterite van....

Modern day Hutterite families only have an average of 5 children nowadays, down from an average of 10 in 1954. Ok, who's the wise guy who introduced birth control to them?

[johngenx]

Even in Korea that fourth row looks to be "amputees only please."

[mixmanmash]

Even in Korea that fourth row looks to be "amputees only please."

8 adults and 3 children.  Lol.

[dirtyjeffer]

BUT... no less money for a car that based on every review is close to equal to it's competition... that does not compute... either it should be cheaper and worse, the same price and equal, or better and more expensive... that's how value works. you find cheaper and better, you win! you get more expensive and worse, you lose.

it is priced smack dab in the middle of the two vans tested...the Sienna is about $2k cheaper, the Odyssey is about $2k more...this Sedona is fully loaded though...if the Sienna was the V6 XLE model (fully loaded model), it would have been very comparable in price to the Sedona and Odyssey (as that model is $46,225 plus freight, etc, so i figured $48k and change).

i don't have a feature for feature comparo, but i would still imagine the Sedona to be pretty solid on the value comparison, if the Sienna (like the Sedona and Odyssey) was a top trim model (fully loaded)...considering how tight this result was, that may have made the difference for the Toyota to win...would the Sedona have notched an extra point or two, putting it marginally in the lead, if the Sienna were $3k more?

also, how about a Town & Country??...the top trim (Limited) model with NAV and sunroof is $53,560...of course, Chrysler has $10,500 on the hood right now, bringing that down to a much lower $43,060...at $53,560, how does the T&C compare?

[tooscoops]

already stated the exact price of a t&c limited with every option ticked off earlier. and why would you compare the msrp when you know the transaction price? i used the 1k discount available from kia in my comparison, just like i would use the 11600 (yeah, i know, crazy) off the loaded t&c.

and why would the van that came in third pass the van that came in first if the runner up changed anything in their model they used in the test?

i'm all for this kind of chatting, but i just don't see what you are getting at, no offense at all meant.

[dirtyjeffer]

and why would the van that came in third pass the van that came in first if the runner up changed anything in their model they used in the test?

i'm all for this kind of chatting, but i just don't see what you are getting at, no offense at all meant.

none taken.

the point spread between these vehicles was tiny (half a point between first and last)...my point was simply that perhaps if the Toyota was a bit more money, it may have meant a little extra may have went to the Kia (which likely would have ended being the least expensive, despite being fully equipped), pushing it from 3rd (last) to 1st.

as i said before, with such a small difference in scores, it pretty much says that all three of these vehicles are great...and like you would likely say, take them all out for a test drive and review the features that match your wants/needs and pick your favourite...in the end, i don't think you can really go wrong with any of them...but as i said, if it were me, it would still be tough to NOT get the Toyota...partly because a few of my friends have them and they love them, partly for resale/reliability (although i am sure the Kia and Honda are still very good) and partly because i kind of like the way it looks (not a fan of the Honda, and the Kia isn't bad either, but i think i prefer the Toyota's looks the most)...things like interest rates/payments would also likely play a big factor...if i liked the Sedona and Sienna equally, but the Sedona had 0.9% and the Toyota had 2.9%, that would make a decent sized difference in payments over the term too (especially if a longer term like 72 months).