Author Topic: Test Drive: 2015 Toyota Prius  (Read 9506 times)

Offline bortojo

  • Learner's Permit
  • *
  • Posts: 3
  • Carma: +0/-0
  • member
    • View Profile
  • Cars: Highlander Hybrid / Lexus CT200h
Re: Test Drive: 2015 Toyota Prius
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2015, 05:10:51 pm »
"Frustratingly, the little battery level gauge still never read full – always one bar below. "

Just to be clear,  All Toyota hybrids operate this way.  I have a Highlander Hybrid with the same issue.  Battery life is shortened overall if the battery is frequently fully charged or discharged.  In order to maximize the battery's lifetime, the computer will try and keep the charge level between 30% and 80%.  The only time I ever saw it go full on my 2011 Highlander was on a long decent through the mountains in West Virginia.  Working as designed...

Offline JohnM

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1132
  • Carma: +70/-99
  • member
    • View Profile
Re: Test Drive: 2015 Toyota Prius
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2015, 05:19:28 pm »
And from the commentary above, Jacob learns that many people don't read well or read the whole thing and to inject complexity is to invite confused and misguided responses.

I suggest if you want to cover a complex subject that you give the final result first and then discuss the deviations and details.  Many brain cells don't continue firing all the way to the end of string of details where the final conclusion might lie unviewed, and uncomprehended.   I include myself in the easily fatigued synapse crowd.

Cheers,
John M.

Offline rrocket

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 76339
  • Carma: +1255/-7217
    • View Profile
Re: Test Drive: 2015 Toyota Prius
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2015, 05:24:12 pm »
Some people are humble enough to learn more when given the chance.  :rofl2:

There wasn't much to learn in any hybrid...at least in that regard.  The one that took the most "training" was my Insight.  It had a lean burn mode (22:1  :o ).  The throttle position had to be just so..and you could gently...very gently..feel it activate.  That was the trickiest hypermilling technique I had to do.  The others (pulse and glides, etc) were not hard at all IMO.

YMMV.
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline X-Traction

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1981
  • Carma: +58/-96
  • member
    • View Profile
Re: Test Drive: 2015 Toyota Prius
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2015, 06:29:42 pm »
"Frustratingly, the little battery level gauge still never read full – always one bar below. "

Just to be clear,  All Toyota hybrids operate this way.  I have a Highlander Hybrid with the same issue.  Battery life is shortened overall if the battery is frequently fully charged or discharged.  In order to maximize the battery's lifetime, the computer will try and keep the charge level between 30% and 80%.  The only time I ever saw it go full on my 2011 Highlander was on a long decent through the mountains in West Virginia.  Working as designed...

I know the Escape Hybrid has some sort of an occasional battery "conditioning" mode, where it either fully discharges and/or charges.
And some cretins think I hate cars.

Offline X-Traction

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1981
  • Carma: +58/-96
  • member
    • View Profile
Re: Test Drive: 2015 Toyota Prius
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2015, 06:41:34 pm »
If the car is not warmed up then short 3km trips might well produce ridiculous numbers.  If you do a lot of that kind of thing then the plug-in is the ticket.  A block heater helps a lot as well.


Absolutely.  You'll get much worse mileage on a short trip if you start with the car and battery very cold.  Or if the trip averages uphill, or if the stop&go traffic is so bad the engine is running more to keep things warm than to move the car.

A non-hybrid will also use more fuel in the same circumstances, to warm up the engine etc.  The non-hybrid doesn't have the big battery to warm up, but likely has a larger ICE to warm up.  And the battery only needs to be warm, not hot like an ICE.  So the difference for the battery isn't huge.

One difference is that a hybrid's engine, exhaust etc. are kept much closer to temperatures that minimize pollution than a non-hybrid.  There's a mileage penalty to that.

I think it is possible to get very bad mileage with a hybrid.  Very cold temperatures, shut it off just as the system reaches normal operating levels, and let it cool off before repeating.  Sort of like the abysmal mileage you'd get if you let a car idle without ever moving it.

Realistically, using a hybrid in a manner that would yield "worst possible" mileage is as irrelevant to a hybrid discussion as it would be with a non-hybrid.

Offline X-Traction

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1981
  • Carma: +58/-96
  • member
    • View Profile
Re: Test Drive: 2015 Toyota Prius
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2015, 06:55:35 pm »
Tough sell right now with how good fuel economy of normal gas engines are now in cars, add in cheaper gas, and an old design, and you got a recipe for low sales.  That being said the Prius is still a leader in the category, just too bad the category is such a small player.

True to some extent.  But as I never grow weary of saying, some people would buy hybrids and ev's even if gas was free.

Offline X-Traction

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1981
  • Carma: +58/-96
  • member
    • View Profile
Re: Test Drive: 2015 Toyota Prius
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2015, 07:02:36 pm »
" I struggled the first few days with the Prius. Biting cold and half a dozen trips of less than 10 km each (school runs) resulted in a woeful 10 L/100 km. I never even got to use the battery on those -5 and below days."
Having now bothered to read the article after posting comments....

This seems odd.  -5 (assuming Centigrade) is not that cold.  The only time the Escape Hybrid shows such reluctance to go into ev mode is when the 15km drive starts at that temperature at 3000' elevation and goes down to sea level at 70-100kph.  In normal city use at that temperature, it will go into ev mode within about 10 blocks or 5 minutes.

In the current 22-25 degree C., in normal city use, it can go into ev from a cold start in 2-3 blocks.  And it will regenerate/store energy even sooner.

Offline johngenx

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 33323
  • Carma: +758/-938
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2009 Toyota Corolla, 2004 Toyota Highlander V-6 4WD, 2001 Subaru Forester, 1994 Mazda Miata
Re: Test Drive: 2015 Toyota Prius
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2015, 07:22:33 pm »
Put me in the "why would I want a CVT that "changes gears?" camp. To me, the wonderful thing about the CVT is that it can hold the engine at the torque peak while accelerating.  That to me seems like one serious benefit of them.  The RX-h and Highlander Hybrids I've driven have done exactly that.

The hybrid brakes I've driven feel different than conventional brakes and it took me two stops to adjust.

Offline JacobBlack

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • ****
  • Posts: 2593
  • Carma: +440/-499
  • Gender: Male
  • member
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2008 Ford F-150
Re: Test Drive: 2015 Toyota Prius
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2015, 08:21:31 pm »

There wasn't much to learn in any hybrid...at least in that regard.  The one that took the most "training" was my Insight.  It had a lean burn mode (22:1  :o ).  The throttle position had to be just so..and you could gently...very gently..feel it activate.  That was the trickiest hypermilling technique I had to do.  The others (pulse and glides, etc) were not hard at all IMO.

YMMV.

Wow! Thank goodness we have your immense driving prowess on hand to help us all out!  :rofl:
In all seriousness though, hypermiling is not complex or hard, but like anything when I had a chance to get feedback and tips to be better from someone who'd been doing it professionally for years - you can bet your bottom dollar I took that training. Same as bikes, I've been riding for 15+ years but when a more experienced/faster person is on hand, I listen to them.

Offline rrocket

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 76339
  • Carma: +1255/-7217
    • View Profile
Re: Test Drive: 2015 Toyota Prius
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2015, 08:24:06 pm »

There wasn't much to learn in any hybrid...at least in that regard.  The one that took the most "training" was my Insight.  It had a lean burn mode (22:1  :o ).  The throttle position had to be just so..and you could gently...very gently..feel it activate.  That was the trickiest hypermilling technique I had to do.  The others (pulse and glides, etc) were not hard at all IMO.

YMMV.

Wow! Thank goodness we have your immense driving prowess on hand to help us all out!  :rofl:
In all seriousness though, hypermiling is not complex or hard, but like anything when I had a chance to get feedback and tips to be better from someone who'd been doing it professionally for years - you can bet your bottom dollar I took that training. Same as bikes, I've been riding for 15+ years but when a more experienced/faster person is on hand, I listen to them.

No need to have special prowess to drive a hybrid properly.  YMMV though.   :stick:

Oh, so you'll listen to me when we meet up?   ;D

Seriously though...what is a professional hypermiler??  Like a taxi driver?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 08:30:48 pm by rrocket »

Offline JacobBlack

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • ****
  • Posts: 2593
  • Carma: +440/-499
  • Gender: Male
  • member
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2008 Ford F-150
Re: Test Drive: 2015 Toyota Prius
« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2015, 08:33:23 pm »
Oh, so you'll listen to me when we meet up?   ;D

Seriously though...what is a professional hypermiler??  Like a taxi driver?

If you're really faster!  :rofl2:
People who've set hypermiling records in cars for fun and profit.



Offline ArticSteve

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 27890
  • Carma: +310/-6817
    • View Profile
  • Cars: Hobby Car: 15 Mustang Vert, V6, manual, 3.55 lsd; 2024 MDX Aspec; 2022 F150 TREMOR lifted
Re: Test Drive: 2015 Toyota Prius
« Reply #31 on: June 10, 2015, 08:37:01 pm »
What's the lesson of this thread?    Don't buy a Prius if you intend on driving 3km in sub zero temps.

Very informative.

Offline rrocket

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 76339
  • Carma: +1255/-7217
    • View Profile
Re: Test Drive: 2015 Toyota Prius
« Reply #32 on: June 10, 2015, 08:40:04 pm »
Oh, so you'll listen to me when we meet up?   ;D

Seriously though...what is a professional hypermiler??  Like a taxi driver?

If you're really faster!  :rofl2:
People who've set hypermiling records in cars for fun and profit.

That would be fun, eh? I've roadraced, hare and hound/cross country and drag raced competitively.  Man..that would be fun to have a sort of motorcycle racing triathlon, eh?

And those professional hypermilers that you speak of are lunactics.  They're the same ones who draft 18 wheelers... :o

Offline JacobBlack

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • ****
  • Posts: 2593
  • Carma: +440/-499
  • Gender: Male
  • member
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2008 Ford F-150
Re: Test Drive: 2015 Toyota Prius
« Reply #33 on: June 10, 2015, 08:41:55 pm »
I've said this in other reviews too, a non-plugin hybrid is not a good option for people who do short trips or do a lot of winter. I think parking on P3 at home hurt too, as a lot of these trips were basically uphill out of the parking. Traffic jam. Idle at traffic light. Traffic jam. In super cold -5 was the best day, the other two were less than 10.

But of the hybrids that suffered in the cold, the Prius was the worst of them - cold hurt it more than the others.
The other thing is the Prius suffered more than other hybrids from "regular" driving. Hypermile = awesome. Half-hypermile = still awesome. Use any more than half throttle at any time in the drive and you're screwed.

Which, as I said in the C-Max review, is why I'd buy that instead.

The review has other points too, but that seems to be the one causing most consternation so thought I'd try to clarify it for ya.  :)

Offline ArticSteve

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 27890
  • Carma: +310/-6817
    • View Profile
  • Cars: Hobby Car: 15 Mustang Vert, V6, manual, 3.55 lsd; 2024 MDX Aspec; 2022 F150 TREMOR lifted
Re: Test Drive: 2015 Toyota Prius
« Reply #34 on: June 10, 2015, 08:55:24 pm »
I've said this in other reviews too, a non-plugin hybrid is not a good option for people who do short trips or do a lot of winter.

Hybrid in winter is quite good if it's left outside.  Go out, open driver's door.  Put foot on brake and hit start.  Push the windshield defrost button and the electric mirror/rear window button.  Set seat heater to high and then go inside and enjoy breakfast.  The car will melt all the ice and snow and turn it's self off.

Offline rrocket

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 76339
  • Carma: +1255/-7217
    • View Profile
Re: Test Drive: 2015 Toyota Prius
« Reply #35 on: June 10, 2015, 08:56:11 pm »
I've said this in other reviews too, a non-plugin hybrid is not a good option for people who do short trips or do a lot of winter.

Hybrid in winter is quite good if it's left outside.  Go out, open driver's door.  Put foot on brake and hit start.  Push the windshield defrost button and the electric mirror/rear window button.  Set seat heater to high and then go inside and enjoy breakfast.  The car will melt all the ice and snow and turn it's self off.

Or park it in the garage maybe?   ;D

Offline Ex-airbalancer

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 40151
  • Carma: +729/-1584
  • Gender: Male
    • View Profile
  • Cars: 2011 Silverado 1500 LTZ ext ended cab , 2013 Lexus RX-350 F Sport
Re: Test Drive: 2015 Toyota Prius
« Reply #36 on: June 10, 2015, 10:10:26 pm »
I've said this in other reviews too, a non-plugin hybrid is not a good option for people who do short trips or do a lot of winter.

Hybrid in winter is quite good if it's left outside.  Go out, open driver's door.  Put foot on brake and hit start.  Push the windshield defrost button and the electric mirror/rear window button.  Set seat heater to high and then go inside and enjoy breakfast.  The car will melt all the ice and snow and turn it's self off.
Our Prius has never been in a garage , no problems in winter driving , just need to get heated seats installed

Offline X-Traction

  • Drunk on Fuel
  • ****
  • Posts: 1981
  • Carma: +58/-96
  • member
    • View Profile
Re: Test Drive: 2015 Toyota Prius
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2015, 10:28:01 pm »
I've said this in other reviews too, a non-plugin hybrid is not a good option for people who do short trips or do a lot of winter. I think parking on P3 at home hurt too, as a lot of these trips were basically uphill out of the parking. Traffic jam. Idle at traffic light. Traffic jam. In super cold -5 was the best day, the other two were less than 10.

But of the hybrids that suffered in the cold, the Prius was the worst of them - cold hurt it more than the others.
The other thing is the Prius suffered more than other hybrids from "regular" driving. Hypermile = awesome. Half-hypermile = still awesome. Use any more than half throttle at any time in the drive and you're screwed.

Which, as I said in the C-Max review, is why I'd buy that instead.

The review has other points too, but that seems to be the one causing most consternation so thought I'd try to clarify it for ya.  :)

I'd say a lot of short trips in cold weather AND time for the car to cool off between them.  If the trips are relatively close together, like taxi use, then the system doesn't have time to cool off.  I'd really have to see the mileage of an equivalent non-hybrid to see if the hybrid mileage was suffering more than a non-hybrid. 

And if that's not the case, then I'd like someone to explain better than I have, why the hybrid would get significantly worse mileage than a non-hybrid doing spaced, short trips in very cold weather.  If the problem was for real, then there must be an explanation.

I have a theory to offer.  This may relate to how a hybrid "idles" to warm itself up.  They (at least my Escape Hybrid) does not idle at 750rpm, which is about what I'm used to with non-hybrids.  The Hybrid "idles" at around 1500 rpm.  It doesn't have a "normal" idle.  It can drive on highways at lower rpm than it "idles".

And I can tell from the mileage readout that it just slurps gas while doing so.  If all this is being done to keep itself warm, and it won't go into ev mode unless it's warm, then maybe they need a mode where you tell it to idle calmly and forget ev mode.

For instance, I can't get 2 blocks from home before having to wait at a stop light.  The Hybrid sits at the light with the motor racing at 1500 rpm, guzzling gas.  (By the next light it's warm enough to shut down the engine while stopped.)  So I've started to shut it off if it looks like it will be a long wait at the light.  I understand the newer Escape Hybrids did this by themselves, but I don't know for sure.  And I don't know how the Prius handles this.

The upside from all this is that presumably a Hybrid is less polluting because the catalytic converter etc. is more likely to be doing what it's supposed to do.  But I suppose that has to be balanced against the fact it's using more gas to accomplish that.

Offline Noto

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 13583
  • Carma: +774/-2132
  • This forum is making me almost as bitter as SirO
    • View Profile
  • Cars: '23 Mazda CX-50 Turbo; '24 Crosstrek Wilderness
Re: Test Drive: 2015 Toyota Prius
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2015, 09:08:25 am »
Both routinely get 45mpg in mixed rolling hills and flat terraine. 35mpg around town, which is all up and down. Mileage declines in the winter to 39mpg.
35 mpg = 6.7L/100km; 45 = 5.22L/100km.  I can get >30mpg in the summer in my parents' RX400h, but they struggle to even get 20mpg in the winter.  Yes, cold weather affects hybrids. 

Dandelion (aka Jacob) got 5.9L/100km in the winter in this Prius.  What's your problem?  Now I know you ain't gone and disrespect Jacob Black...



;D

Offline Noto

  • Car Crazy
  • *****
  • Posts: 13583
  • Carma: +774/-2132
  • This forum is making me almost as bitter as SirO
    • View Profile
  • Cars: '23 Mazda CX-50 Turbo; '24 Crosstrek Wilderness
Re: Test Drive: 2015 Toyota Prius
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2015, 09:13:55 am »
"Frustratingly, the little battery level gauge still never read full – always one bar below. "

Just to be clear,  All Toyota hybrids operate this way.  I have a Highlander Hybrid with the same issue.  Battery life is shortened overall if the battery is frequently fully charged or discharged.  In order to maximize the battery's lifetime, the computer will try and keep the charge level between 30% and 80%.  The only time I ever saw it go full on my 2011 Highlander was on a long decent through the mountains in West Virginia.  Working as designed...
...and just so ya'll know, neither of you have ever gotten the battery totally full, since there are TWO bars above the point you're referring to ;)



There's one more bar above the latter photo!  I've only got it once, when I was in a particular rush with a particularly heavy foot and particularly poor fuel economy.  ;D