Topic: Monday Rant: You Don't Need Synthetic Oil

[mlin32]

There are low-ash motor oils available out there not at the dealership, but like you said, the cost is about the same when you factor in shipping. I paid 10,99 $US/litre once for some low-ash motor oil (Motul X-clean 5W-30) for the 325i. So a 1,50 $/litre premium over my usual 0W-30 Castrol or 10,50 $ over 7 litres.

Her car goes about 25-30k between changes though.

[stargazer68]

Justin,

You should have mentioned the API seal that is on bottles of oil.  As long as the bottle of oil you buy as the API seal on it, it's good enough for you to run in your car, given the right viscosity, of course.

There was also no mention of the so-called different (by the oil companies) oils on the shelves. I refer to the high-mileage oils, which are purported to be better for older, higher mileage cars, and which carry the API seal, and, other than the paragraph on the package that asserts that it will protect the engine better than "regular" oils, don't contain anything that the other stuff does not.  I think this is just a marketing idea someone came up with to extract a few extra bucks from drivers who like to keep their cars a long time.

[stargazer68]

I'm also a fan of saving money and getting value. That's why I don't seek out the most expensive synthetic and change it every 3,000-5,000 km. I choose synthetic because of the PROVEN benefits (not the anecdotal stuff), it has in both everyday driving and extreme use. No one can know when they will subject their vehicle to occasions of extreme use.

One thing the oil people do state which is true is telling us that many (most?) of us subject our cars to extreme conditions often, not just occasionally.
Stop-and-go traffic, short trips in town which don't allow the drive train to reach, much less maintain, full operating temperature, extended idling (where oil pressure drops quite low on many, if not most, engines) are all examples of extreme conditions.
Synthetic will provide better protection than dino for a small premium, as long as you do your own work and buy when it's on sale.

[Triple Bob]

Justin,

You should have mentioned the API seal that is on bottles of oil.  As long as the bottle of oil you buy as the API seal on it, it's good enough for you to run in your car, given the right viscosity, of course.

There was also no mention of the so-called different (by the oil companies) oils on the shelves. I refer to the high-mileage oils, which are purported to be better for older, higher mileage cars, and which carry the API seal, and, other than the paragraph on the package that asserts that it will protect the engine better than "regular" oils, don't contain anything that the other stuff does not.  I think this is just a marketing idea someone came up with to extract a few extra bucks from drivers who like to keep their cars a long time.

High Mileage oil is really targeted at people who use non-synthetic, it's not really needed for high mileage cars that have had regular synthetic changes.

The additional additives over conventional oil help to clean the engine more than conventional would, plus it usually contains chemicals that condition seals to help prevent leaks.  It can also have less phosphorus, which can help prevent a catalytic converter failure on older cars.  Some are also a part-syn blend, so you get that benefit also.

[stargazer68]

It took 17 replies to this article before anyone mentioned a filter by brand (specifically Fram).
But what about the ro;e of that device? Everywhere you go, you hear different opinions about this brand or that one. I have heard several professional mechanics swear that they would never put a Fram filter in their vehicle, yet this brand is more readily available in stores, and is probably the biggest seller. If those filters are so bad, why are they still on the market? Why don't the naysayers promote their preference?
Beyond brands, is there a difference between a regular filter and an extended-use version of the same make? It seems strange to me that these "premium" filters only started to appear a few years ago. Is it just marketing that creates these?
WhatI am asking, ultimately, is where can I go to get honest, unadulterated information (not just opinions) on quality and reliability of oil and filter products. 

[rrocket]

It took 17 replies to this article before anyone mentioned a filter by brand (specifically Fram).
But what about the ro;e of that device? Everywhere you go, you hear different opinions about this brand or that one. I have heard several professional mechanics swear that they would never put a Fram filter in their vehicle, yet this brand is more readily available in stores, and is probably the biggest seller. If those filters are so bad, why are they still on the market? Why don't the naysayers promote their preference?
Beyond brands, is there a difference between a regular filter and an extended-use version of the same make? It seems strange to me that these "premium" filters only started to appear a few years ago. Is it just marketing that creates these?
WhatI am asking, ultimately, is where can I go to get honest, unadulterated information (not just opinions) on quality and reliability of oil and filter products.

Some companies who have extreme confidence in their products have done testing.  One of those companies is Amsoil.  I prefer their filters because they are 100% synthetric media rather than paper.

[stargazer68]

High Mileage oil is really targeted at people who use non-synthetic, it's not really needed for high mileage cars that have had regular synthetic changes.

The additional additives over conventional oil help to clean the engine more than conventional would, plus it usually contains chemicals that condition seals to help prevent leaks.  It can also have less phosphorus, which can help prevent a catalytic converter failure on older cars.  Some are also a part-syn blend, so you get that benefit also.
[/quote]

Good to know. The packages don't always make this info clear.
Thanks for the prompt follow-up.

[.l..]

What I am asking, ultimately, is where can I go to get honest, unadulterated information (not just opinions) on quality and reliability of oil and filter products.

There's TMI out there. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=oil+filter+comparison

I used only reg dino oil, changed every 5000 km, factory mfg filter...totalled the car off, tore the engine down for fun...clean as a whistle with nearly 400,000 km on it. Mechanic friend was impressed.  Bah...oil's oil. No one keeps a car long enough nowadays for it to matter. (assuming reg oil changes that is, of course)

[Triple Bob]

It took 17 replies to this article before anyone mentioned a filter by brand (specifically Fram).
But what about the ro;e of that device? Everywhere you go, you hear different opinions about this brand or that one. I have heard several professional mechanics swear that they would never put a Fram filter in their vehicle, yet this brand is more readily available in stores, and is probably the biggest seller. If those filters are so bad, why are they still on the market? Why don't the naysayers promote their preference?
Beyond brands, is there a difference between a regular filter and an extended-use version of the same make? It seems strange to me that these "premium" filters only started to appear a few years ago. Is it just marketing that creates these?
WhatI am asking, ultimately, is where can I go to get honest, unadulterated information (not just opinions) on quality and reliability of oil and filter products.

Some companies who have extreme confidence in their products have done testing.  One of those companies is Amsoil.  I prefer their filters because they are 100% synthetric media rather than paper.

I heard good stuff about Purolator PureONE, so got some of them for the bike.

[stargazer68]

I heard good stuff about Purolator PureONE, so got some of them for the bike.
[/quote]

I just went to Puro's site, and the only supplier they showed me for Canada is Auto Value. Auto Value, at least in Calgary, does not carry Puro.
Any suggestions where I might find them? I remember KMart sold them, but they've been gone from Canada for decades!

[rrocket]

It took 17 replies to this article before anyone mentioned a filter by brand (specifically Fram).
But what about the ro;e of that device? Everywhere you go, you hear different opinions about this brand or that one. I have heard several professional mechanics swear that they would never put a Fram filter in their vehicle, yet this brand is more readily available in stores, and is probably the biggest seller. If those filters are so bad, why are they still on the market? Why don't the naysayers promote their preference?
Beyond brands, is there a difference between a regular filter and an extended-use version of the same make? It seems strange to me that these "premium" filters only started to appear a few years ago. Is it just marketing that creates these?
WhatI am asking, ultimately, is where can I go to get honest, unadulterated information (not just opinions) on quality and reliability of oil and filter products.

Some companies who have extreme confidence in their products have done testing.  One of those companies is Amsoil.  I prefer their filters because they are 100% synthetric media rather than paper.

I heard good stuff about Purolator PureONE, so got some of them for the bike.

It is a very good filter.  Problem (for me) is that it's the same price as an Amsoil filter.

[Triple Bob]

I bought the filters off Amazon.ca , they have quite a decent selection of bike stuff. Got a great filter wrench too.

[rrocket]

I bought the filters off Amazon.ca , they have quite a decent selection of bike stuff. Got a great filter wrench too.

Man...a good filter wrench is such an overlooked piece of kit.  Definitely worth mentioning, Bob.

[Fobroader]

I bought the filters off Amazon.ca , they have quite a decent selection of bike stuff. Got a great filter wrench too.

Man...a good filter wrench is such an overlooked piece of kit.  Definitely worth mentioning, Bob.

You mean a screwdriver, jam through filter and spin.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

[rrocket]

I bought the filters off Amazon.ca , they have quite a decent selection of bike stuff. Got a great filter wrench too.

Man...a good filter wrench is such an overlooked piece of kit.  Definitely worth mentioning, Bob.

You mean a screwdriver, jam through filter and spin.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

Let me know how that works on cartridge style filters, OK?   

[Fobroader]

I bought the filters off Amazon.ca , they have quite a decent selection of bike stuff. Got a great filter wrench too.

Man...a good filter wrench is such an overlooked piece of kit.  Definitely worth mentioning, Bob.

You mean a screwdriver, jam through filter and spin.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

Let me know how that works on cartridge style filters, OK?   

I've never owned a Beetle lol

Sent from my Galaxy S3

[rrocket]

I bought the filters off Amazon.ca , they have quite a decent selection of bike stuff. Got a great filter wrench too.

Man...a good filter wrench is such an overlooked piece of kit.  Definitely worth mentioning, Bob.

You mean a screwdriver, jam through filter and spin.

Sent from my Galaxy S3

Let me know how that works on cartridge style filters, OK?   

I've never owned a Beetle lol

Sent from my Galaxy S3

Me either.  My IS350 was also cartridge.

[stargazer68]

You mean a screwdriver, jam through filter and spin.

Sent from my Galaxy S3
[/quote]

A bit messy, and somewhat painful if the engine is hot (which it should be to maximise the quality of the drain, i.e. suspended particles).

[Triple Bob]

I bought the filters off Amazon.ca , they have quite a decent selection of bike stuff. Got a great filter wrench too.

Man...a good filter wrench is such an overlooked piece of kit.  Definitely worth mentioning, Bob.

This was what I bought, super cheap too.

[Waterlooresident]

THERE IS ONLY 2 TIMES YOU NEED SYNTHETIC OIL in your car:
1 - Extreme cold weather starting.
2 - Extreme short trips.

with #1, the synthetic oil helps because its not so thick.

with #2, the engine never gets hot enough to burn off the water vapor that has condensated from the engine combustion gasses, so if you use regular oil this water gets all mixed up with the oil and you get SLUDGE formation.    Synthetic oil does not form this type of sludge so you are safe, that's why a lot of owners of front-drive V6 Toyota engines use synthetic;  because those engines are known to sludge up so easily.

If you don't have #1,  or #2, and you don't drive a front-drive V6 Toyota, you are okay with using just the regular non-synthetic oil.