Topic: Monday Rant: You Don't Need Synthetic Oil

[johngenx]

Maybe engineers could create designs that won't implode if you happen to buy a different brand of oil?

[Triple Bob]

Maybe engineers could create designs that won't implode if you happen to buy a different brand of oil?

How dare you bring your common sense to an internet discussion, be gone! 

[mlin32]

Darn, there's no popcorn icon. Sit back and enjoy the show though. 

Oil grade/type and petrol octane go on top of the list of most hotly-debated topics.

[HeliDriver]

Darn, there's no popcorn icon. Sit back and enjoy the show though. 

Oil grade/type and petrol octane go on top of the list of most hotly-debated topics.

Oh, and it's also possible that BMW engineers don't specify synthetic because of engine design or harsh conditions or whatever. Maybe synthetic is specified because environmental regulations call for extended drain intervals, or CAFE regulations make saving a tenth of a L/100kms important, or reducing tailpipe emissions by some fraction of a percent... All stuff that is very important to the company, but maybe of little importance to me as an owner.

Not saying, just hypothesizing.

[tooscoops]

yeah, but what "non-specified" oil are we talking here marcus? and a diesel is a more special case.

i'm assuming here, but i'm thinking the case of not listening to the book that ronnie is referring to is more ignoring the brand suggested, or maybe the particular top end of a particular manufacturer... and on more common engines.

buy a dodge journey and you can get whatever cheap oil meets minimum requirements... buy a ferrari and you might want to do what they suggest.

[rrocket]

I often wonder..How could they tell whether the oil is the right type? Even a test on used oil wouldn't be able to tell if it was a non specified oil. Especially since "specified" oil is often just a licensing deal.

[HeliDriver]

I often wonder..How could they tell whether the oil is the right type? Even a test on used oil wouldn't be able to tell if it was a non specified oil. Especially since "specified" oil is often just a licensing deal.

Probably as easy as asking to see your receipts.

[Northernridge]

I often wonder..How could they tell whether the oil is the right type? Even a test on used oil wouldn't be able to tell if it was a non specified oil. Especially since "specified" oil is often just a licensing deal.

[rrocket]

I often wonder..How could they tell whether the oil is the right type? Even a test on used oil wouldn't be able to tell if it was a non specified oil. Especially since "specified" oil is often just a licensing deal.

Probably as easy as asking to see your receipts.

Buy your oil from me...I'll give you any receipt you want.

[tpl]

yeah, but what "non-specified" oil are we talking here marcus? and a diesel is a more special case.

i'm assuming here, but i'm thinking the case of not listening to the book that ronnie is referring to is more ignoring the brand suggested, or maybe the particular top end of a particular manufacturer... and on more common engines.

buy a dodge journey and you can get whatever cheap oil meets minimum requirements... buy a ferrari and you might want to do what they suggest.

I bet that the sticker Marcus is talking about  for a TDI  specified a VW-50x number  and probably mentioned a brand of oil that would meat that specification.   Diesels are special nowadays because of the emission controls.

[tpl]

I often wonder..How could they tell whether the oil is the right type? Even a test on used oil wouldn't be able to tell if it was a non specified oil. Especially since "specified" oil is often just a licensing deal.

Probably as easy as asking to see your receipts.

Buy your oil from me...I'll give you any receipt you want.

I checked the Amsoil site today. I noticed that they quite specifically show oils for cars like the VW diesels that require a specific formulation for emissions. The site also mentions the VW 50x numbers and that the Amsoil products meet the VW specs depending on which exact spec and which exact oil.   I certainly believe that they do meet those specs but I saw no reference that their oil is on an VW approved list.

[Triple Bob]

I often wonder..How could they tell whether the oil is the right type? Even a test on used oil wouldn't be able to tell if it was a non specified oil. Especially since "specified" oil is often just a licensing deal.

Probably as easy as asking to see your receipts.

Buy your oil from me...I'll give you any receipt you want.

I checked the Amsoil site today. I noticed that they quite specifically show oils for cars like the VW diesels that require a specific formulation for emissions. The site also mentions the VW 50x numbers and that the Amsoil products meet the VW specs depending on which exact spec and which exact oil.   I certainly believe that they do meet those specs but I saw no reference that their oil is on an VW approved list.

You are probably OK if you meet the correct specs, synthetic, low ash and all that jazz.  I certainly wouldn't risk not following the VW specs given what I have read about the cost of replacing the particulate filters. 

[tpl]

^^^ My Q is a gas engine so many oils meet the spec for that (502)

[marcus_go]

I often wonder..How could they tell whether the oil is the right type? Even a test on used oil wouldn't be able to tell if it was a non specified oil. Especially since "specified" oil is often just a licensing deal.

Probably as easy as asking to see your receipts.

Buy your oil from me...I'll give you any receipt you want.

I checked the Amsoil site today. I noticed that they quite specifically show oils for cars like the VW diesels that require a specific formulation for emissions. The site also mentions the VW 50x numbers and that the Amsoil products meet the VW specs depending on which exact spec and which exact oil.   I certainly believe that they do meet those specs but I saw no reference that their oil is on an VW approved list.

You are probably OK if you meet the correct specs, synthetic, low ash and all that jazz.  I certainly wouldn't risk not following the VW specs given what I have read about the cost of replacing the particulate filters. 

That was my exactly my point. If your car's manufacturer specifies a certain oil standard than I would certainly adhere to it. And as other have mentioned the manufacturer can easily ask you to prove what oil you used if they suspected damage was caused from using the wrong oil. For vehicles that don't have specific requirements use whatever makes you feel good.

[marcus_go]

^^^ My Q is a gas engine so many oils meet the spec for that (502)

Our Audi A4 is the same. I use Castrol 0W-30 which is a group IV synthetic made in Germany. Can easily be found at Can Tire on sale for around $9 a quart.

[Neromanceres]

Nobody needs Synthetic unless it is specifically called out that the car needs Synthetic by the manufacturer.

However Synthetic is a better oil than conventional.  It maintains a better viscosity profile across it's temperature range (very cold to very hot).  Does not break down or oxidize as quickly so it lasts longer.

I used to own a Grand Caravan.  I used to have to change the oil every 6 months (~10,000kms).  I switched to synthetic.  The engine ran quieter got 0.5L/100kms better fuel economy and I switched to changing the oil every year (~20,000kms).  In the end it was less expensive.  I used the lower cost AMSOIL OE full synthetic. 

Now for all GM vehicles built after 2011 they require "dexos" oil.  Now Dexos is nothing special but conventional oils will not meet the standard.  To meet the standard you require a synthetic blend minimum.

My wife's Sonic has a required oil change interval of 1 year or when the oil life monitor tells her to change it.   She has changed the oil twice in two years and the oil life still showed fairly high.  However she does only drive ~8000kms per year.  The one year interval is why GM now specifies a synthetic blend minimum.

My Volt requires full synthetic. However the manual requires an oil change every two years or when the oil life monitor says to change it.  I've had my Volt for nearly 3 years and only changed the oil once.

[Solstice2006]

With new cars nowadays, I suspect more require synthetic then regular conventional oil.  Would be an interesting stat.

[Schmengie]

I don't need synthetic oil since the Versa gets free lifetime oil and filter changes done at the dealer every 6000kms or 4 months.  Between free dino juice changes a few times a year and expensive synthetic once a year, it's no contest.

[Triple Bob]

With new cars nowadays, I suspect more require synthetic then regular conventional oil.  Would be an interesting stat.

Yes they do, and the average oil change is also getting longer.

[ElectricMayhem]

One of the cars is a Mk6 diesel Golf.  The manual specifies low-ash oil that, as a practical matter, is only available at the dealer.  The reason is that there is a diesel particulate filter that can fill up with ash, and there is no really good way to clean it out.  It is at least $2000 to replace.

The VW spec is less than 0.8% ash content; some readily available oils are a little over 1.0%.  Would that make a big difference?  Probably not.  But my VW dealer only charges me $10.99 for a litre of the correct stuff, so I don't feel too gouged. And if anything happens during the warranty period I will have a paper record that I used dealer-supplied oil.