Topic: Monday Rant: You Don't Need Synthetic Oil

[Triple Bob]

I wonder what my Honda's  0/20 'full' synthetic is?
Is it a 'true' synthetic as some are just dino based with synthetic additives 

When they make synthetic out of dino oil base stocks, the break it down to a molecular level, and then build it back up to a 'synthetic' base.  In simple terms, the reason why hydrocracked oils can be called synthetic is that they are built at a molecular level, just like you would build/design a compound that was completely man made.

See here:

http://www.hocl-oils.com.au/faqs.html

Are Group II Base Oils synthetic?

A recent ruling from a respected advertising self-regulatory body decided a case on the use of the term synthetic. It found that synthetic base stocks are not limited to PAOs. The decision said that the key requirement for calling a base stock synthetic is that it be the result of conversion or processing of one complex mixture. Group II base oils clearly meet the test.

For some reason people perpetuate the myth that hydrocracked oils are just dino oils with additives in, this isn't the case at all.  The molecular structure is much more uniform, like a PAO.

[Firm]

I am all for Synthetic if the manufacture calls for it, or if you've got a "pampered" newer car that you don't mind spending a few extra dollars on. My caution (and the reason I run dino, unless the manufacture calls for synthetic) is that synthetic will more easily find ways to leak out of an older engine.

[greengs]

Changing oil every 4 months on a mainstream car to keep warranty would be a deal breaker for me.  Toyota is every 6 months and that's annoying.  Our van is usually every 10 months and my BMW is once a year.  All of them are time related an not mileage related.

[wing]

Yes because time is what wears oil.....

[Firm]

Right. I can see oil degrading and absorbing moisture over a period of years, but definitely not as quick as many would suggest. My SLK is going on 2-years since I've changed the oil (and about 2000kms), I am going to do it this week just for peace of mind. It's the one car where I do run expensive Mobil 1 0-40 and the overpriced MB fleece filter. Oil still looks brand new on the dipstick...

[Solstice2006]

Changing oil every 4 months on a mainstream car to keep warranty would be a deal breaker for me.  Toyota is every 6 months and that's annoying.  Our van is usually every 10 months and my BMW is once a year.  All of them are time related an not mileage related.

Its the Mazda warranty, not the dealership.  I would do it anyway, regardless of their schedule.  With the type of driving I do.  Practically 90% city, my average speed per tank is less than 40km, the engine barely warms up.  I don't like the oil schedule thing in the Odyssey.  It's like every 15k with non-synthetic.  I do it every 6-8k, and the van does about 70% highway.  Not a deal breaker for me.  Especially since it's non dealer serviced, so the cost is less. 

[tpl]

Changing oil every 4 months on a mainstream car to keep warranty would be a deal breaker for me.  Toyota is every 6 months and that's annoying.  Our van is usually every 10 months and my BMW is once a year.  All of them are time related an not mileage related.

The BMW is interesting.  I presume your 2004 is the last of the E46 cars?   My 2003 330xi had a 25000 km interval that was variable, for me it went on at 22000 KM while I was working and commuting.    I looked into this. Early 2000s the oil change indicator computed cold starts,journey length, engine hours and some other stuff to adjust the 25000 kms.  I discovered that for 2003 and presumably 2004  BMW simplified this after their research and adjusted based on the amount of fuel that went through the engine. On the basis that heavy fuel consumption would mean harsh driving conditions such as continual high speeds, cold conditions or many short trips.

[Angry Chicken]

Funny the OP hasn't chimed in on this.

My summary 2 cents (but pretty much what others said)...I buy Castrol Edge full synthetic 5W40 on sale at Canadian Tire for about $35.00 for 5 litres.  I use it and an OEM Audi filter to change my oil a couple of times over the spring-fall track season months then use the good stuff (Amsoil) and an Amsoil filter from rrocket as an extra treat for my car over the winter.  I doubt that there's much benefit in using the Amsoil, but it makes me feel good and I'm pretty sure my car sighs with relief when it gets that special stuff.  I will never, never, never use dino because it's not really that much cheaper to begin with, and my engine has now done > 300,000 km with nary a problem.

[jaari]

I wonder what my Honda's  0/20 'full' synthetic is?
Is it a 'true' synthetic as some are just dino based with synthetic additives 

When they make synthetic out of dino oil base stocks, the break it down to a molecular level, and then build it back up to a 'synthetic' base.  In simple terms, the reason why hydrocracked oils can be called synthetic is that they are built at a molecular level, just like you would build/design a compound that was completely man made.

See here:

http://www.hocl-oils.com.au/faqs.html

Are Group II Base Oils synthetic?

A recent ruling from a respected advertising self-regulatory body decided a case on the use of the term synthetic. It found that synthetic base stocks are not limited to PAOs. The decision said that the key requirement for calling a base stock synthetic is that it be the result of conversion or processing of one complex mixture. Group II base oils clearly meet the test.

For some reason people perpetuate the myth that hydrocracked oils are just dino oils with additives in, this isn't the case at all.  The molecular structure is much more uniform, like a PAO.

My point was most are still dino based just modified

[RoadRageous]

Going by my experience, Justin's probably right. I've owned (second hand ) two high-mileage cars : a 1990 Celica 1.8l with about 200k, and a 2002 protege with 160k. when choosing them, the one thing I looked for was regular oil changes, done according to schedule. Using the 2-cycle emissions test to guage wear, those engines had a projected life of about 30 years, even when the rest of the cars stopped working. The emissions were close to the minimums, and didn't really change.

My head says that as long as I stick to the manufacturers's grade, viscosity, and change interval specs, the nature of the oil does not matter.

Now, when it comes to my baby, the car that I plan to be in at my funeral, nothing says "I care" like full synthetic.

[X-Traction]

1. Who wears out their engines any more?

2. Isn't excessive idling a bit threat to healthy oil?  I've heard it dilutes the oil with fuel.

3. Wouldn't a car primarily driven at highway speeds rather than city traffic, and never pushed really hard, and never started below -20C, be pretty easy on the oil?

[blur911]

Interesting that the article doesn't mention (as many of the comments have), that in regards to motor-oil found in North America, "synthetic" is a marketing term not pertaining to ingredients.

[johngenx]

two high-mileage cars : a 1990 Celica 1.8l with about 200k, and a 2002 protege with 160k.

That's just broken in!

The Scoob quite a ways back



One of the MB's I owned...

[Sir Osis of Liver]

1. Who wears out their engines any more?

2. Isn't excessive idling a bit threat to healthy oil?  I've heard it dilutes the oil with fuel.

3. Wouldn't a car primarily driven at highway speeds rather than city traffic, and never pushed really hard, and never started below -20C, be pretty easy on the oil?

Basically this. Engines don't fail when following oil change schedules by the book. Anything over and above that is wasted money/resources.

What kills cars are failed electronics and body rot. No amount of weekly mink-oil changes are going to help that.

[chignectohead]

Logic would dictate that some good regular oils are better than some poor synthetics. The only place I've seen on the internet where someone has tested oil for film strength is this:

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/

It was updated on May 25, 2015.  This is where a mechanical engineer has tested 159 oils for wear resistance. It's incredibly long and boring and apparently has upset some of the "I believe in magic" oil "gurus" propounding various oils and additives. The format I believe has been chosen so that someone cannot swipe a nice neat table from his site and just post the results somewhere, so you have to be prepared for a slog through the words.

All these old wives' tales about oil have always bothered me, because my cars never used oil even back in the 1960s - my Volvo needed 4000 rpm to cruise at just about 100 kph, which would cause the average car nut these days to have conniptions. And gasoline was laced with tetraethyl lead to raise octane back then as well..

Taking just one manufacturer, Mobil 1 varies considerably between viscosities, with 5-30 being by far the best. But all manufacturers vary greatly, not just Mobil. The other thing to avoid in general is high zinc formulation oil.

Double overhead cam engines need less wear resistance from their oil in general than pushrod engines, because valve spring pressures are lower and cam profiles easier. Most modern engines are of this type, except for Chev and Hemi V8's and that wacky pushrod V6 you can get in some GM pickups.

Anyway, it shows that some regular oils are just fine. And some synthetics are pathetic. What a surprise.

[wing]

I've seen my fair share of exploded engines lol

[mixmanmash]

Without doing a used oil analysis, how do you know a particular oil is protecting your engine adequately?

When my friend bought his new Nissan 350Z brand new, he started doing UOAs.  He found that the Nissan branded oil was getting sheared down and losing it's viscosity within 500kms.  He tried many conventional oils and a similar thing was happening.  Then he started trying synthetics and found they were much better.  However, he found when he moved to Group IV synthetics, the shearing effect went away and he could easily go 10k kms or more.

I have done many UOAs in my 300ZX twin turbo and found Mobil 15W50 works great for my application.

[mlin32]

All of the cars we own use/require synthetic oil. But I've spent most of my driving life with a car that required it, so it is for me normal. I remember synthetic used to cost 7 $/litre.....now the same is 9 $ US/litre. Multiply that by 7 and it adds up. Good thing the oil change intervals are long.

[Triple Bob]

I wonder what my Honda's  0/20 'full' synthetic is?
Is it a 'true' synthetic as some are just dino based with synthetic additives 

When they make synthetic out of dino oil base stocks, the break it down to a molecular level, and then build it back up to a 'synthetic' base.  In simple terms, the reason why hydrocracked oils can be called synthetic is that they are built at a molecular level, just like you would build/design a compound that was completely man made.

See here:

http://www.hocl-oils.com.au/faqs.html

Are Group II Base Oils synthetic?

A recent ruling from a respected advertising self-regulatory body decided a case on the use of the term synthetic. It found that synthetic base stocks are not limited to PAOs. The decision said that the key requirement for calling a base stock synthetic is that it be the result of conversion or processing of one complex mixture. Group II base oils clearly meet the test.

For some reason people perpetuate the myth that hydrocracked oils are just dino oils with additives in, this isn't the case at all.  The molecular structure is much more uniform, like a PAO.

My point was most are still dino based just modified

The first step is dino based oil, from there the process and ingredients are completely different.  One thing it isn't is just dino oil with stuff added.

[ronniefung]

I use synthetics because all my cars see track use. If it was a naturally aspirated street car that never saw track use, I'd do with regular oil.

I go with synthetics for any turbo car, regardless of street or track because of how hot things get. The constant extreme heat cycling that happens on a turbo street car begs for any additional protection.