Topic: Test Drive: 2015 Ford F-150 FX4 EcoBoost

[pcsp]

This 2.7 EB engine seems to be all that the 3.5 EB promised, but never really delivered. It's easy to compare apples and apples (Dodge ecodiesel vs hemi), but a valid comparison is between a comparable F150 (2.7) and Ram (Eco 3.0). I love diesels, but the cost of entry and cost of fuel is just too high. If one wants more power or towing capacity than the 2.7 EB, then one is a niche buyer with very specific needs. Get a large V8, but the 2.7 EB serves the broad majority of truck buyers.

[mixmanmash]

I'll take the Ram Ecodiesel please.  I find the interior is better in the Ram.  If I'm looking for real world fuel economy there's no substitute for diesel.  Everything I've read about these Ecoboost is that you can have either "Eco" or "Boost" but not both, meaning you can have fuel economy or maximum hp.  So to me this means I'd have to drive the Ecoboost like a Prius in order to get the claimed fuel economy, whereas the Ram I could drive it normally and possibly beat the posted fuel ratings.

Just don't use the Ecodiesel in sub-freezing temps.
Significant engine issues have been encountered with hydro-locking cylinders in such conditions.
As well, your post does not take into account higher initial purchase cost of the diesel engine - a $5,000 surcharge over the price of the Hemi, really poor real world payload capacity (800ish lbs), higher fuel prices and high regular maintenance costs.
I have a friend that purchased a 2008 Grand Cherokee with the diesel 3.0L. While it was about 25% better on fuel that a comparable V8, the ongoing engine maintenance issues, higher by at least 10% fuel prices vs gasoline and lack of competency at dealer for service had him buying a 2015 Santa Fe XL.

That 2008 Jeep GC had a Mercedes Benz sourced OM642 diesel.  This current truck uses a VM Motori (Fiat) diesel.

Personally, I wouldn't go with a diesel if you make a lot of short trips (less than 16-20km).  It's just trouble with all the modern emissions systems.

[Danno001]

That 2008 Jeep GC had a Mercedes Benz sourced OM642 diesel.  This current truck uses a VM Motori (Fiat) diesel.

Personally, I wouldn't go with a diesel if you make a lot of short trips (less than 16-20km).  It's just trouble with all the modern emissions systems.

Yup, living the dream. Running over a hundred of a version of the OM642 in my fleet now. Servicing is pricey at +$500 per service, frankly haven't lost an engine yet and have a few over 300,000 kms. Running 20,000 km OCIs.

[mixmanmash]

That 2008 Jeep GC had a Mercedes Benz sourced OM642 diesel.  This current truck uses a VM Motori (Fiat) diesel.

Personally, I wouldn't go with a diesel if you make a lot of short trips (less than 16-20km).  It's just trouble with all the modern emissions systems.

Yup, living the dream. Running over a hundred of a version of the OM642 in my fleet now. Servicing is pricey at +$500 per service, frankly haven't lost an engine yet and have a few over 300,000 kms. Running 20,000 km OCIs.

My dad has a 2006 E320CDI with the previous OM648 3.2L I6 turbo diesel.  He goes about 15k OCIs.  Average servicing at an Indy is about $200.  Sometimes more depending on what it needs (brakes, etc).  The best part of the old setup is less emissions systems.  There is no DEF, no DPF.  The only thing it has is a EGR.

[neil]

Truck reviews are fanboi bait, Here's my disappointments with the Beer-can150.

Ecoboost economy.  Noted above, I won't beat the horse.  Performance is pretty outstanding granted.

Body:  Spend $2B to create an all new truck, and make it look almost exactly like the last one, and pretty close to the one before that.  This "style" with tweaks and revisions is 12 years old now.

Aluminium.  Ford has a major problem on 5-6 year old expeditions right now that used Aluminum for the tailgate.  Almost all of them have bubbling paint.  Beyond costs for body repair, I hope Ford has it figured out, and we don't see a repeat of the cars from the 90's with peeling clear coats after the switch to environmentally friendly paint. 

Otherwise good review, and the video was well done.

[EV-Light]

Truck reviews are fanboi bait, Here's my disappointments with the Beer-can150.

Ecoboost economy.  Noted above, I won't beat the horse.  Performance is pretty outstanding granted.

Body:  Spend $2B to create an all new truck, and make it look almost exactly like the last one, and pretty close to the one before that.  This "style" with tweaks and revisions is 12 years old now.

Aluminium.  Ford has a major problem on 5-6 year old expeditions right now that used Aluminum for the tailgate.  Almost all of them have bubbling paint.  Beyond costs for body repair, I hope Ford has it figured out, and we don't see a repeat of the cars from the 90's with peeling clear coats after the switch to environmentally friendly paint. 

Otherwise good review, and the video was well done.

I think what you fail to understand here is that Ford has taken aluminium main stream...which means that they can now start applying it to their next generation of vehicles that will provide significant weight savings...the next generation Explorer will be the first one to benefit from it.

[Northernridge]

^
^
All reviews are fanboy and hater bait.

I'd say that for a first go, Ford has done an admirable job in making an aluminum truck.

What's likely to happen from here?

Some problems emerge that Ford will certainly fix.

F150 remains the best selling truck...if so the others will have to respond.

Ford's engine innovation advances putting more pressure on competitors.

Something really bad could happen but it just doesn't seem like that's the way the wind is blowing at Ford.

[neil]

Truck reviews are fanboi bait, Here's my disappointments with the Beer-can150.

Ecoboost economy.  Noted above, I won't beat the horse.  Performance is pretty outstanding granted.

Body:  Spend $2B to create an all new truck, and make it look almost exactly like the last one, and pretty close to the one before that.  This "style" with tweaks and revisions is 12 years old now.

Aluminium.  Ford has a major problem on 5-6 year old expeditions right now that used Aluminum for the tailgate.  Almost all of them have bubbling paint.  Beyond costs for body repair, I hope Ford has it figured out, and we don't see a repeat of the cars from the 90's with peeling clear coats after the switch to environmentally friendly paint. 

Otherwise good review, and the video was well done.

I think what you fail to understand here is that Ford has taken aluminium main stream...which means that they can now start applying it to their next generation of vehicles that will provide significant weight savings...the next generation Explorer will be the first one to benefit from it.

Why do you think I don't understand that.  I certainly never said that.  I am just concerned over Ford's previous issues with aluminum and QC.

[EV-Light]

Truck reviews are fanboi bait, Here's my disappointments with the Beer-can150.

Ecoboost economy.  Noted above, I won't beat the horse.  Performance is pretty outstanding granted.

Body:  Spend $2B to create an all new truck, and make it look almost exactly like the last one, and pretty close to the one before that.  This "style" with tweaks and revisions is 12 years old now.

Aluminium.  Ford has a major problem on 5-6 year old expeditions right now that used Aluminum for the tailgate.  Almost all of them have bubbling paint.  Beyond costs for body repair, I hope Ford has it figured out, and we don't see a repeat of the cars from the 90's with peeling clear coats after the switch to environmentally friendly paint. 

Otherwise good review, and the video was well done.

I think what you fail to understand here is that Ford has taken aluminium main stream...which means that they can now start applying it to their next generation of vehicles that will provide significant weight savings...the next generation Explorer will be the first one to benefit from it.

Why do you think I don't understand that.  I certainly never said that.  I am just concerned over Ford's previous issues with aluminum and QC.

I assumed you did when you criticized a 2Billion investment to bring aluminium as a main stream material along with a redesigned truck....


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[dragonfly]

 What I found very interesting about this engine's performance is that it's faster than the larger and more power 3.5 turbo...The figures given were: 2.7, 0-60  7.0 seconds, 3.5 0-60  7.2 seconds..Pretty durn fast, eh?  I don't like the black plastic grill in this model..Is this supposed to be upscale vis a vis the chrome grill??  More manly I guess...sheesh...Thanks..Nice review  Jackie

[neil]

I am in the business, but work for none of the big three, so don't have a dog in this hunt.  But I can add a perspective that so far is unique in this discussion.

I sell extended warranties for used cars, and the warranty providers base cost on actual claims frequency and expense.

I ran a few trucks through the calculator:  All fictional 2012 4x4 models with 70k.  2 year wrap warranty:

Ram 1500 Hemi  $993

F-150 ecoboost/ 5.0   $1802

Silverado lt 8cyl  $940

The cost of the warranty for the F-150 is double that of it's competitors.  Say what you want about what you hear about reliability, but real world numbers would suggest the Ford has been far less reliable/ more expensive to fix.

[mmret]

No diff between ecoboost and the V8?

[neil]

No diff between ecoboost and the V8?

No difference.

[johngenx]

Ford trucks have a fanatical following, but whenever I talk to owners, they are grinning through issues.  The Chev/GM trucks seem (anecdotal...) more durable.

If I wanted a V-8 truck (so not a Tacoma...) I'd go with a GM product.  They seem to make amazing V-8 drivelines.

[2JDM]

Interesting. I have always thought that the RAM was the least reliable domestic pickup.

[EV-Light]

I am in the business, but work for none of the big three, so don't have a dog in this hunt.  But I can add a perspective that so far is unique in this discussion.

I sell extended warranties for used cars, and the warranty providers base cost on actual claims frequency and expense.

I ran a few trucks through the calculator:  All fictional 2012 4x4 models with 70k.  2 year wrap warranty:

Ram 1500 Hemi  $993

F-150 ecoboost/ 5.0   $1802

Silverado lt 8cyl  $940

The cost of the warranty for the F-150 is double that of it's competitors.  Say what you want about what you hear about reliability, but real world numbers would suggest the Ford has been far less reliable/ more expensive to fix.

Interesting but it hardly means anything....when I was getting extended warranty quotes for my BMW 3-Series back in 2010, I got quotes - for a bumper to bumper warranty - all the way from $1300 to $5400, depending on the company...I ended up buying the extended warranty from BMW, which came at $2100....


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[neil]

That depends on the warranty provider. A couple flat rate, some actuary.

[G.Bombay]

Interesting. I have always thought that the RAM was the least reliable domestic pickup.

I used to think that too. Consumers reports last year says Ram is now the most reliable 1500. Give credit to Chrysler/Fiat for continually improving their products. Seems to be paying off as I see a lot of late models Ram 1500's driving around.

[EV-Light]

Interesting. I have always thought that the RAM was the least reliable domestic pickup.

I used to think that too. Consumers reports last year says Ram is now the most reliable 1500. Give credit to Chrysler/Fiat for continually improving their products. Seems to be paying off as I see a lot of late models Ram 1500's driving around.

when was it published??....in the current issue, the only domestic truck that doesn't receive the black mark from CR is the F150....

[tooscoops]

I am in the business, but work for none of the big three, so don't have a dog in this hunt.  But I can add a perspective that so far is unique in this discussion.

I sell extended warranties for used cars, and the warranty providers base cost on actual claims frequency and expense.

I ran a few trucks through the calculator:  All fictional 2012 4x4 models with 70k.  2 year wrap warranty:

Ram 1500 Hemi  $993

F-150 ecoboost/ 5.0   $1802

Silverado lt 8cyl  $940

The cost of the warranty for the F-150 is double that of it's competitors.  Say what you want about what you hear about reliability, but real world numbers would suggest the Ford has been far less reliable/ more expensive to fix.

Interesting but it hardly means anything....when I was getting extended warranty quotes for my BMW 3-Series back in 2010, I got quotes - for a bumper to bumper warranty - all the way from $1300 to $5400, depending on the company...I ended up buying the extended warranty from BMW, which came at $2100....


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getting quotes from random providers for a (slightly) different product is hardly controlling variables. neils point is actually quite an interesting one as it is fully controlled... same warranty, same provider, same coverage. it tells you that the ford has a higher chance of having more costs after the standard warranty has expired. doesn't mean all that much to every buyer other than that due to historical evidence and expected costs, the ford will have more estimated costs during that period of ownership.

thanks for that by the way neil... helpful stuff.