Topic: Comparison Test: Compact Crossover SUVs

[Noto]

^ Didn't read the article, but they didn't have any other major volume sellers like the Escape or GM twins to test?

After being graciously invited to help in these tests, one thing becomes very clear:

Not every test can be the proverbial sh!t in terms of being perfect, with no stone left unturned, and no questionable attributes.  "That one's too big."  "That one's a Juke."  "That one didn't have winter tires."  "That one's too expensive."

Having tried to get a press vehicle (rather unsuccessfully for several months now), I can assure you that booking the exact right cars to compare as ideally as the readers would like is impossible.

So, too, did CR's test as posted take a lot of time, planning, etc. all to show what we already know - winter tires are necessary.  But, it did show how the chassis will behave when there is limited traction, and it was fun to read/watch (sorta)....so, whatever, take these comparos at face value and always thank the writers for giving you something to read

[SaskSpecV]

....so, whatever, take these comparos at face value and always thank the writers for giving you something to read

Especially for a CR reports article - most of them are hidden behind the paywall.  I was surprised this one was free.

As for my winter tires gripe, it's not that I expect CR to test the vehicles on winter tires after testing them on stock tires (that type of test would be more up a tire dealer's alley...hence who tire rack does those exact tests).  But I do expect CR to mention that when driving in snow/ice, actual winter tires are helpful (not just that "tires are part of the picture for overall vehicle performance").  The stopping distance test was an especially good time to work that little nugget in...

[Fobroader]

That should be the only way they test during the winter and they should have a big, red exclaimer at the beginning of every article, "PLEASE BUY AND USE WINTER TIRES TO GET FULL BENEFITS OUT OF YOUR AWD/4X4 VEHICLE!!!".

[Noto]

....so, whatever, take these comparos at face value and always thank the writers for giving you something to read

Especially for a CR reports article - most of them are hidden behind the paywall.  I was surprised this one was free.

As for my winter tires gripe, it's not that I expect CR to test the vehicles on winter tires after testing them on stock tires (that type of test would be more up a tire dealer's alley...hence who tire rack does those exact tests).  But I do expect CR to mention that when driving in snow/ice, actual winter tires are helpful (not just that "tires are part of the picture for overall vehicle performance").  The stopping distance test was an especially good time to work that little nugget in...

Oh, then I fully agree - they could have worked the piece more into a "WE DO NOT RECOMMEND DRIVING EVEN THE EXCELLENT FORESTER IN THE WINTER SANS WINTER TIRES!"

[redman]

I would like a see a more concise breakdown of a 4x4 or AWD as advertised. Most of the systems mentioned here and part-time or slip a grip varietal

The 4x4 and AWD designation has become more of badge vs function.

The systems vary greatly and most do nothing but the bare minimum. As in engage front and rear drives from a standstill and cut off shortly after. Vehicles do more than just take off in a straight line.
Factor in turning in snow, rain, loose gravel etc and the slip and grip systems do nothing beyond their fwd counterparts but still get the designation 4x4 / AWD.

[Fobroader]

I would like a see a more concise breakdown of a 4x4 or AWD as advertised. Most of the systems mentioned here and part-time or slip a grip varietal

The 4x4 and AWD designation has become more of badge vs function.

The systems vary greatly and most do nothing but the bare minimum. As in engage front and rear drives from a standstill and cut off shortly after. Vehicles do more than just take off in a straight line.
Factor in turning in snow, rain, loose gravel etc and the slip and grip systems do nothing beyond their fwd counterparts but still get the designation 4x4 / AWD.

So really the only vehicles that would get a passing grade would be actual 4x4 trucks and SUVs, Subarus, Quattros and the Acura SH-AWD.....slip and grip is not really comparable to a proper awd/4x4 system

[redman]

I would like a see a more concise breakdown of a 4x4 or AWD as advertised. Most of the systems mentioned here and part-time or slip a grip varietal

The 4x4 and AWD designation has become more of badge vs function.

The systems vary greatly and most do nothing but the bare minimum. As in engage front and rear drives from a standstill and cut off shortly after. Vehicles do more than just take off in a straight line.
Factor in turning in snow, rain, loose gravel etc and the slip and grip systems do nothing beyond their fwd counterparts but still get the designation 4x4 / AWD.

So really the only vehicles that would get a passing grade would be actual 4x4 trucks and SUVs, Subarus, Quattros and the Acura SH-AWD.....slip and grip is not really comparable to a proper awd/4x4 system

Now your talking. Most other pseudo systems spend more on the 4x4 and AWD badging than they do in mechanics.

I would include a few more in the passing grade. Mitsubishi s-awc and any system with torque vectoring.

[Fobroader]

I would like a see a more concise breakdown of a 4x4 or AWD as advertised. Most of the systems mentioned here and part-time or slip a grip varietal

The 4x4 and AWD designation has become more of badge vs function.

The systems vary greatly and most do nothing but the bare minimum. As in engage front and rear drives from a standstill and cut off shortly after. Vehicles do more than just take off in a straight line.
Factor in turning in snow, rain, loose gravel etc and the slip and grip systems do nothing beyond their fwd counterparts but still get the designation 4x4 / AWD.

So really the only vehicles that would get a passing grade would be actual 4x4 trucks and SUVs, Subarus, Quattros and the Acura SH-AWD.....slip and grip is not really comparable to a proper awd/4x4 system

Now your talking. Most other pseudo systems spend more on the 4x4 and AWD badging than they do in mechanics.

I would include a few more in the passing grade. Mitsubishi s-awc and any system with torque vectoring.

Yup, Mitsubishi as well. Im talking about same conditions, same tires and lets see who does better, a Forester or a CR-V, a Legacy vs a 200...that kind of thing, but it has to be side by side, same tires so no one can debate the validity of the results.

[Noto]

So really the only vehicles that would get a passing grade would be actual 4x4 trucks and SUVs, Subarus, Quattros and the Acura SH-AWD.....slip and grip is not really comparable to a proper awd/4x4 system

Don't forget Mitsu's AWC

[Noto]

Yup, Mitsubishi as well.

Damn, you beat me to it

[Fobroader]

So really the only vehicles that would get a passing grade would be actual 4x4 trucks and SUVs, Subarus, Quattros and the Acura SH-AWD.....slip and grip is not really comparable to a proper awd/4x4 system

Don't forget Mitsu's AWC

I always forget that under the minivan-esque form of the Mitsu CUVs actually likes a decent drivetrain. Great legs, shame about the face.

[johngenx]

Ugh - Toyota advertises that the new slip/grip is much more capable.  Hhhhmmm.  Still pales in comparison to the Subaru.

Hey, Toyota, you guys used to make wicked full time AWD systems.  What was wrong with that?  The system on my Highlander is right on the heels of Subaru.

[Fobroader]

Ugh - Toyota advertises that the new slip/grip is much more capable.  Hhhhmmm.  Still pales in comparison to the Subaru.

Hey, Toyota, you guys used to make wicked full time AWD systems.  What was wrong with that?  The system on my Highlander is right on the heels of Subaru.

I thought the older Rav4 systems were pretty good too werent they??

[johngenx]

Ugh - Toyota advertises that the new slip/grip is much more capable.  Hhhhmmm.  Still pales in comparison to the Subaru.

Hey, Toyota, you guys used to make wicked full time AWD systems.  What was wrong with that?  The system on my Highlander is right on the heels of Subaru.

I thought the older Rav4 systems were pretty good too werent they??

RAV had the full time system from 2001 to 2005.  It's good.

[Fobroader]

So this new fangled obsession with on demand systems, as far as I can tell its just a fuel mileage thing because beyond that, they offer no benefit over a real 4x4/awd system.

[johngenx]

they offer no benefit over a real 4x4/awd system.

None.  And Subaru now proves that you can have comparable economy AND full time AWD.  Really, did I just write that Subaru has excellent economy?  How the world has changed!!

If I'm paying for AWD, I want AWD.

[Fobroader]

That really ticks me off when I see 4x4 on the back of CUVs that I know damn well do not have real 4x4. Isn't that false advertising??

[Solstice2006]

^ Didn't read the article, but they didn't have any other major volume sellers like the Escape or GM twins to test?

After being graciously invited to help in these tests, one thing becomes very clear:

Not every test can be the proverbial sh!t in terms of being perfect, with no stone left unturned, and no questionable attributes.  "That one's too big."  "That one's a Juke."  "That one didn't have winter tires."  "That one's too expensive."

Having tried to get a press vehicle (rather unsuccessfully for several months now), I can assure you that booking the exact right cars to compare as ideally as the readers would like is impossible.

So, too, did CR's test as posted take a lot of time, planning, etc. all to show what we already know - winter tires are necessary.  But, it did show how the chassis will behave when there is limited traction, and it was fun to read/watch (sorta)....so, whatever, take these comparos at face value and always thank the writers for giving you something to read

I still would think with CR budget, they could get more CUVs to test.  Look at the size of this little website.  Still decent comparo's here. 

[mixmanmash]

These weak slip and grip systems should be called All Wheel Assist and not All Wheel Drive.

[johngenx]

This shows that the slip/grip can add a lot in terms of forward traction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orysh1VuueU

What is lacking in this test is the significant advantage that full time AWD can give in cornering.  Put them on a slalom and I bet things would be very different.