Topic: Test Drive: 2015 Lexus GS 350 AWD F-Sport

[Autos_Editor]

Sure it's good, but can it make you stop and look?
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[dencanad]

Loved this car when I took it for a test drive. One of the nicest cars I have ever driven.  It will be high on my "next-to-get" list when I replace my RX350.  Disappointed that the rear seats do not fold down, which was a main factor in not purchasing the car.  Hopefully will be remedied in a model refresh or the next generation.  I cannot wait to see the GS-F, that car will be awesome!

[whaddaiknow]

Sure it's good, but can it make you stop and look?

The car is NOT a looker at most angles and in most colours. That's why it doesn't sell. IMO. All other ingredients are there.

[nlm]

Although they are technically in different classes, based on price this and the just reviewed 435 GC would make an interesting comparo in terms of bang for buck.

[Noto]

This car is just a redesign away from coming back into people's minds (think IS-redesign; now with split-fold rear seats); however, differentiating it from the ES will be the major issue.  It's a BIG car, and the limitations (including no folding rear seats!) don't help.  I think it'd be better if they made it the same size as the ES, but more sporting compared to the ES's comfort-first nature.

The IS sells well as a luxurious, but entry-level (and priced!) Lexus.  The ES sells well as a comfortable, luxurious boat of a car.  The GS is just getting expensive (a relative bargain is still a lot of money) and does nothing better than its competition for many reasons.

...one of the biggest issues is that nobody can ever tell it apart from an ES!  They look so bloody similar...

[Northernridge]

^

Zero confusion among real buyers between the ES and GS. And, Lexus is probably less guilty than their rivals for making models look the same. The success/failure of the GS has nothing to do with the ES. Rather it's tied to the value proposition against the 5 Series, A6, E Class, etc. One of the advantages of the GS in this company is price...so you're wrong about that too.   

[Noto]

^

Zero confusion among real buyers between the ES and GS. And, Lexus is probably less guilty than their rivals for making models look the same. The success/failure of the GS has nothing to do with the ES. Rather it's tied to the value proposition against the 5 Series, A6, E Class, etc. One of the advantages of the GS in this company is price...so you're wrong about that too.   

I stand by my comments.  For return customers, I agree with you, but for conquest sales?

[Northernridge]

Same for me. The GS is on my hit list and the GS-F at $85k-ish would be v-good value.

[whaddaiknow]

^

Zero confusion among real buyers between the ES and GS. And, Lexus is probably less guilty than their rivals for making models look the same. The success/failure of the GS has nothing to do with the ES. Rather it's tied to the value proposition against the 5 Series, A6, E Class, etc. One of the advantages of the GS in this company is price...so you're wrong about that too.   

I stand by my comments.  For return customers, I agree with you, but for conquest sales?

I've never owned a Lexus, and last Fall when I was car-shopping, there was no confusion in my mind between the ES and GS. I may take one for another from a mile away but otherwise, two very different animals. Standing side by side in the showroom, you can see the GS is grade above the ES.
ES looks good in virtually any colour, the GS, in my eyes, should only wear a black (or very dark) suit.
Having driven the ES, I wouldn't call it a "boat" - the suspension is well sorted for a large FWD car.

[evil_twin]

This car is just a redesign away from coming back into people's minds (think IS-redesign; now with split-fold rear seats); however, differentiating it from the ES will be the major issue.  It's a BIG car, and the limitations (including no folding rear seats!) don't help.  I think it'd be better if they made it the same size as the ES, but more sporting compared to the ES's comfort-first nature.

The IS sells well as a luxurious, but entry-level (and priced!) Lexus.  The ES sells well as a comfortable, luxurious boat of a car.  The GS is just getting expensive (a relative bargain is still a lot of money) and does nothing better than its competition for many reasons.

...one of the biggest issues is that nobody can ever tell it apart from an ES!  They look so bloody similar...

This whole post confuses me.   I see a lot of suggestions for changing the GS but no explanation of why these changes would help sell more GS units (other than the split-fold rear seats).

The IS -> GS -> LS progression perfectly aligns with the competition, while the ES is really just the Lexus answer to Buick.

From most reviews it seems the GS is an excellent choice in this segment, and I honestly think the only thing holding it back is the polarizing (read: not beautiful) styling.

[mmret]

From most reviews it seems the GS is an excellent choice in this segment, and I honestly think the only thing holding it back is the polarizing (read: not beautiful) styling.

Well I think when people are spending that much coin they want German iron. Like it or not Lexus still isn't..quite there.

As for the CTS there are some old WASP D3 fans.

[evil_twin]

From most reviews it seems the GS is an excellent choice in this segment, and I honestly think the only thing holding it back is the polarizing (read: not beautiful) styling.

Well I think when people are spending that much coin they want German iron. Like it or not Lexus still isn't..quite there.

As for the CTS there are some old WASP D3 fans.

Totally agree.  I'd say most folks pecking order would go something like:
FGC (all 3 brands) > Lexus > Cadillac/Infiniti/Volvo > Acura > Buick >>>>> Lincoln.   

I suppose you can quibble with the bottom ranks, but most would give Lexus the "nearest to FGC status" silver medal. 

Given the lower entry price it presents a pretty nice value.

What do LS sales look like relative to the big German 3 over the last decade or so?   Surely they can emulate that success in the mid-size category if they can get enough buyers to lust over a Lexus (while saving some bucks and gaining reliability).

[mmret]

From most reviews it seems the GS is an excellent choice in this segment, and I honestly think the only thing holding it back is the polarizing (read: not beautiful) styling.

Well I think when people are spending that much coin they want German iron. Like it or not Lexus still isn't..quite there.

As for the CTS there are some old WASP D3 fans.

But you can get a fully loaded GS F-Sport for less than the starting price of a 535. Like Evil Says, review of the GS F-Sport have been very good. I think it's slotted perfectly NOT to compete directly with the others.

I"m not sure if you've actually drive a new GS but I have and I was very impressed.

Of course you can but I think most shoppers are looking for the badge. I think a lot of people would just take a 335i instead of the GS F-Sport.

Also lease payments might be less of a difference.

Remember people like us are not normal.

[Hannibalsmith]

GS F-Sport with RWD (car is slightly lower) in silver with red leather interior is quite the looker. If I was looking at a larger luxury sedan, it would be high on the shopping list, above the 5 series in my opinion.

[Snowman]

From most reviews it seems the GS is an excellent choice in this segment, and I honestly think the only thing holding it back is the polarizing (read: not beautiful) styling.

Well I think when people are spending that much coin they want German iron. Like it or not Lexus still isn't..quite there.

As for the CTS there are some old WASP D3 fans.

Totally agree.  I'd say most folks pecking order would go something like:
FGC (all 3 brands) > Lexus > Cadillac/Infiniti/Volvo > Acura > Buick >>>>> Lincoln.   

I suppose you can quibble with the bottom ranks, but most would give Lexus the "nearest to FGC status" silver medal. 

Given the lower entry price it presents a pretty nice value.

What do LS sales look like relative to the big German 3 over the last decade or so?   Surely they can emulate that success in the mid-size category if they can get enough buyers to lust over a Lexus (while saving some bucks and gaining reliability).

Agree 100% and I think the way Buick is going it might jump up one.

[evil_twin]

Of course you can but I think most shoppers are looking for the badge. I think a lot of people would just take a 335i instead of the GS F-Sport.

Again, I agree.  But how's Lexus supposed to combat that?  They offer a very competitive vehicle in the 335i weight class, so if the buyer is willing to sacrifice space they still have value trump card in the compact class with the IS350.   

I guess what I'm getting at is....this:

I'd actually like to hear what some of you people would like to see improved in the GS? Intangibles?

Lexus has a good (great even if you go by most the reviews) offering in this class.   The only thing I'd suggest they improve is the styling.   The rest really comes down to marketing and brand perception.

Lexus was the first to truly take on the FGCs with the LS.   Infiniti then did it with G.   

Never easy toppling the defacto market leaders, but having a good product is an excellent start.

[Snowman]

GS F-Sport vs CTS V-Sport

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9faBE_ceJY

Without watching it I would take the CTS V-Sport.

[evil_twin]

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/Cadillac/CTS/Thornhill/Ontario/5_23086719_ON20090112102238078/?ursrc=hl&showcpo=ShowCPO&orup=15_15_16

It would be very hard to ignore the value of those massively depreciating Vsports now that I can't get a manual in any of the mid-sizers....

[mmret]

http://www.autotrader.ca/a/Cadillac/CTS/Thornhill/Ontario/5_23086719_ON20090112102238078/?ursrc=hl&showcpo=ShowCPO&orup=15_15_16

It would be very hard to ignore the value of those massively depreciating Vsports now that I can't get a manual in any of the mid-sizers....

[Snowman]

FAck....$47k.