Author Topic: The things that make me sad, angry, and upset  (Read 2496844 times)

Offline JohnnyMac

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Re: The things that make me sad, angry, and upset
« Reply #14740 on: September 18, 2024, 04:43:57 pm »
This is definitely related to the current conversation, and happened just yesterday when I was driving to my kid's school after work.

https://youtu.be/oGqIqSKGznw

Had I been going any faster, that kid would have been toast, as both of our reaction times would have been reduced.
Let’s break this down, not a cross walk, you weren’t speeding, school bus did not have their lights blinking, so a stupid kid hasn’t be taught how to look both ways before crossing the road.  This was one way our generation weeded out some dumb people, and yet you would have been painted a monster for hitting a kid.

This is one thing I read all the time (especially on local neighbourhood FB pages).  A kid hasn't been taught, or parents you need to teach your kids....

Kids do stupid things (as do adults).  Its doesn't mean they haven't been taught.  Sometimes you can tell them something a million times and because they are young and their brains aren't mature they don't do as they are taught and they put themselves in harms way.  You can tell a 4 year old to look both ways before crossing the street and 9 times out of 10 they will just dart out to grab their ball or to join their friends. 

Also, just because a kid does something stupid doesn't mean they are stupid.
Of I get that, kids have always done stupid :censor:, always have.  The difference is there are less consequences or dangers for said kids nowadays.  Kids get less freedom and are supervised most of the time.  This leads to young adults unable to deal with simple things in society and get angry when things don’t work out for them.

It’s not just parents, it’s the school system, government, and society in general.


It’s the classic hard times create hard people, hard people create soft times, soft times create soft people, soft people create hard times.  That cycle just keeps going, we are not in a good part of that cycle.

Offline JohnnyMac

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Re: The things that make me sad, angry, and upset
« Reply #14741 on: September 18, 2024, 04:46:17 pm »
Yeah, and that's why the 30 km/hr 'slow zones' get enlarged to not just in front of schools but for a good chunk on either side of them, like our neighborhood.

Edmonton dropped to 40 km/hr in regular residential, and it's not that crazy when you think about it. There really isn't much time if a kid darts out like that
I disagree with moving to 40kph in regular residential.  Can we agree that modern vehicles stop quicker, handle better, and have safety systems to make them safer like auto braking.  So what has changed with humans? 

Offline tortoise

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Re: The things that make me sad, angry, and upset
« Reply #14742 on: September 18, 2024, 04:56:14 pm »
You think it should be higher?

Vehicle dynamics don't play nearly as big of a factor at slow speeds. Human reaction time does, and it hasn't changed.

I guess it depends on the neighborhood, but we don't have sidewalks and often have cars parked on the street. 40 is plenty fast. Larger streets with sidewalks might be a different story.
Only the slow and dim know where they're going in life, and seldom is it worth the trip. - Tom Robbins.

Offline JohnnyMac

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Re: The things that make me sad, angry, and upset
« Reply #14743 on: September 18, 2024, 05:11:27 pm »
You think it should be higher?

Vehicle dynamics don't play nearly as big of a factor at slow speeds. Human reaction time does, and it hasn't changed.

I guess it depends on the neighborhood, but we don't have sidewalks and often have cars parked on the street. 40 is plenty fast. Larger streets with sidewalks might be a different story.
Nope, I don’t think it should be faster.  I think 50 is a good speed.  We as drivers and pedestrians should be taking more ownership in how to drive safely and how to cross a street or play by a road safely.

In your situation, wouldn’t adding a sidewalk or widening the street be a way to fix the issue and not have to reduce the speed limit?
« Last Edit: September 18, 2024, 05:12:59 pm by JohnnyMac »

Offline tortoise

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Re: The things that make me sad, angry, and upset
« Reply #14744 on: September 18, 2024, 05:25:57 pm »
By "higher", I meant higher than 40. Sorry.

It's not practical to add sidewalks to our street/neighborhood. I think the limit should be 30 (currently 40) on our street since it sees a fair bit of pedestrian traffic.

Also, it's a short street so it wouldn't inconvenience anyone.

Offline JohnnyMac

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Re: The things that make me sad, angry, and upset
« Reply #14745 on: September 18, 2024, 05:34:03 pm »
By "higher", I meant higher than 40. Sorry.

It's not practical to add sidewalks to our street/neighborhood. I think the limit should be 30 (currently 40) on our street since it sees a fair bit of pedestrian traffic.

Also, it's a short street so it wouldn't inconvenience anyone.
Certainly talking in generalities, there is certainly times when 30 or 40 would be warranted and acceptable.

Offline OliverD

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Re: The things that make me sad, angry, and upset
« Reply #14746 on: September 18, 2024, 06:29:34 pm »
Yeah, and that's why the 30 km/hr 'slow zones' get enlarged to not just in front of schools but for a good chunk on either side of them, like our neighborhood.

Edmonton dropped to 40 km/hr in regular residential, and it's not that crazy when you think about it. There really isn't much time if a kid darts out like that
I disagree with moving to 40kph in regular residential.  Can we agree that modern vehicles stop quicker, handle better, and have safety systems to make them safer like auto braking.  So what has changed with humans?

What has changed is that we are finally realizing that for the past ~80 years we have been prioritizing the car over every other method of personal transportation and that has resulted in making streets much more dangerous than they need to be. All the things we do that allow cars to go faster – wider lanes, high radius street corners, removing trees beside streets, etc. – make things dangerous not only for pedestrians and cyclists but also for drivers and passengers.

We can try to put the onus on pedestrians as much as we want but it doesn't change a very fundamental truth: When a pedestrian makes a mistake and gets hit by a car (as nearly happened in GBA's video), the chance of death or serious injury is extremely high. When a driver makes a similar mistake and hits a pedestrian, the chance of injury or death is nearly zero. And even if as a pedestrian you follow all the rules, so many drivers who are low skilled to begin with are further enabled to drive faster and remain ignorant of their surroundings thanks to poor street design, that being a pedestrian is still inherently much more dangerous than it should be.

I think that lowering limits to 40 or even 30 in residential areas is good. The problem is that it isn't good enough. If a street is designed for higher speeds, people will drive faster. It needs to be in combination with actual design changes like bump outs at intersections, raised crosswalks, street trees, expanding on street parking, narrower lanes, etc.

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Re: The things that make me sad, angry, and upset
« Reply #14747 on: September 18, 2024, 07:30:10 pm »
I'm all for reducing vehicle speed in residential neighborhood to 40 km/h.  In my neighborhood 50 is too much as some of the streets are too narrow.  I think, without getting into a rant,  the way the country is going  people are not trustworthy enough for good judgment at all.   Just this weekend a kid was hit by a car in my neighborhood.   My kid now have to cross a street to take the bus in the morning,  limit is 50 but guarantee cars are doing 65 on it, an impact at that speed is 99% done.  Just last night I went for a walk, crossing the street at a roundabout, which are made super safe, some of the cars barely stops.  One of them actually speed faster to avoid stopping for me.  Another couldn't way for me the get across and was basically a foot from me before I left the intersection.

Offline HeliDriver

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Re: The things that make me sad, angry, and upset
« Reply #14748 on: September 18, 2024, 07:59:12 pm »
The speed limit in my neighbourhood used to be 50 km/h, which I always thought was completely insane. Narrow streets, parked cars, lots of roadside shrubs and bushes, and no sidewalks, so there are often pedestrians and little kids on bikes in the street...

Okay, I'm human too, so sometimes I'd be in a rush and catch myself thinking Holy :censor: I'm going too fast, better slow it down a bit... only to look at the speedo and see I was only doing 50 km/h, so perfectly legal.  ::)

I've always tried to keep it to 30 km/h, which is plenty reasonable. Very little traffic in this neighbourhood, so was never an issue with me holding anyone up. And on the odd occasion some impatient asshat was on my bumper, well too bad for them.

Anyway, in the past year or so the Town has come to its senses and the new speed limit everywhere is 30 km/h, unless posted otherwise.

Offline OliverD

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Re: The things that make me sad, angry, and upset
« Reply #14749 on: September 18, 2024, 09:44:12 pm »
I'm all for reducing vehicle speed in residential neighborhood to 40 km/h.  In my neighborhood 50 is too much as some of the streets are too narrow.  I think, without getting into a rant,  the way the country is going  people are not trustworthy enough for good judgment at all.   Just this weekend a kid was hit by a car in my neighborhood.   My kid now have to cross a street to take the bus in the morning,  limit is 50 but guarantee cars are doing 65 on it, an impact at that speed is 99% done.  Just last night I went for a walk, crossing the street at a roundabout, which are made super safe, some of the cars barely stops.  One of them actually speed faster to avoid stopping for me.  Another couldn't way for me the get across and was basically a foot from me before I left the intersection.

There's a street parallel to mine that is residential but it leads to the front entrance of the University of New Brunswick, so it's fairly busy and also a bus route. People tend to speed heavily on that street. Last year the city installed bumpouts and marked crosswalks at several of the cross streets. Literally weeks after they did that a young girl got hit crossing at one of them. This year they painted a centre line for the first time and moved all parking to the side of the street with the bumpouts. It does make the street feel narrower and hopefully will have a bit of an effect.

I think most drivers would change their habits if they actually had experience being a pedestrian for utilitarian purposes. I don't mean taking the dog around the neighbourhood at night. I mean walking to work, running errands, etc. Crossing streets with actual traffic. It's quite eye opening just how bad so many drivers are. You might as well be invisible to them.


Offline Serniter

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Re: The things that make me sad, angry, and upset
« Reply #14750 on: September 18, 2024, 11:07:36 pm »
Yeah, and that's why the 30 km/hr 'slow zones' get enlarged to not just in front of schools but for a good chunk on either side of them, like our neighborhood.

Edmonton dropped to 40 km/hr in regular residential, and it's not that crazy when you think about it. There really isn't much time if a kid darts out like that
I disagree with moving to 40kph in regular residential.  Can we agree that modern vehicles stop quicker, handle better, and have safety systems to make them safer like auto braking.  So what has changed with humans?

What has changed is that we are finally realizing that for the past ~80 years we have been prioritizing the car over every other method of personal transportation and that has resulted in making streets much more dangerous than they need to be. All the things we do that allow cars to go faster – wider lanes, high radius street corners, removing trees beside streets, etc. – make things dangerous not only for pedestrians and cyclists but also for drivers and passengers.

We can try to put the onus on pedestrians as much as we want but it doesn't change a very fundamental truth: When a pedestrian makes a mistake and gets hit by a car (as nearly happened in GBA's video), the chance of death or serious injury is extremely high. When a driver makes a similar mistake and hits a pedestrian, the chance of injury or death is nearly zero. And even if as a pedestrian you follow all the rules, so many drivers who are low skilled to begin with are further enabled to drive faster and remain ignorant of their surroundings thanks to poor street design, that being a pedestrian is still inherently much more dangerous than it should be.

I think that lowering limits to 40 or even 30 in residential areas is good. The problem is that it isn't good enough. If a street is designed for higher speeds, people will drive faster. It needs to be in combination with actual design changes like bump outs at intersections, raised crosswalks, street trees, expanding on street parking, narrower lanes, etc.

Well said.

Online rrocket

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Re: The things that make me sad, angry, and upset
« Reply #14751 on: September 18, 2024, 11:39:53 pm »
I have to be honest.

 Pedestrians are pretty low on my list of "cares" because I know if I ever hit one it won't be my fault. I give them the widest of berths.

Wake me up when there's some REAL, meaningful penalties for drunk drivers...who are responsible for over 25 percent of ALL road fatalities.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2024, 11:41:47 pm by rrocket »
How fast is my 911?  Supras sh*t on on me all the time...in reverse..with blown turbos  :( ...

Offline valuator

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Re: The things that make me sad, angry, and upset
« Reply #14752 on: September 19, 2024, 07:46:00 am »
My little guy's arm, it turns out, had a cyst causing a weak spot where it broke.  Here's hoping it heals well and doesn't reoccur.  :-[

He has been pretty good about catching up on his schoolwork that his teacher sent home.  We've made some healthy gains and progress on French reading (being able to do say 3 x 20 minute sessions throughout the day rather then fitting it in during the evening after a long day has been great).  We met his teacher yesterday to plan a return-to-school, he heads back on Monday.  I confirmed with her that he's up to date on what they've been working on in class, and we reviewed the weekly schedule to work out at what point he needs some accommodations.  Anyway, holy hell there is not a lot of real "learning time" when you really scrutinize it.  I mentioned this to my wife after we left, and she said school is all about "learning to learn", socialization, etc.  Apparently my wife could keep up the curriculum in 1-2 hours a day if we home schooled.  If you have the time/schedule to accomplish it, I totally get the home schooling thing now.  I don't think it's for us, but it makes more sense than I ever thought... 

Offline JohnnyMac

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Re: The things that make me sad, angry, and upset
« Reply #14753 on: September 19, 2024, 09:08:48 am »
My little guy's arm, it turns out, had a cyst causing a weak spot where it broke.  Here's hoping it heals well and doesn't reoccur.  :-[

He has been pretty good about catching up on his schoolwork that his teacher sent home.  We've made some healthy gains and progress on French reading (being able to do say 3 x 20 minute sessions throughout the day rather then fitting it in during the evening after a long day has been great).  We met his teacher yesterday to plan a return-to-school, he heads back on Monday.  I confirmed with her that he's up to date on what they've been working on in class, and we reviewed the weekly schedule to work out at what point he needs some accommodations.  Anyway, holy hell there is not a lot of real "learning time" when you really scrutinize it.  I mentioned this to my wife after we left, and she said school is all about "learning to learn", socialization, etc.  Apparently my wife could keep up the curriculum in 1-2 hours a day if we home schooled.  If you have the time/schedule to accomplish it, I totally get the home schooling thing now.  I don't think it's for us, but it makes more sense than I ever thought...
It's good to hear your little guys healing well and I'm sure he's excited to return back to school.

I work with a guy who during the pandemic they decided to start home schooling their 4 kids.  But it's a rather unique situation as his wife has a masters degree, has always done tutoring, and due to how many kids is a stay at home mom, so the transition made a lot of sense,  They decided it was working so well to continue on beyond that point.  They still do a lot of different activities for socialization.  When they reach highschool grades they will return to public school to finish off their schooling and really get the teenage experience.  It works for them, but as I said, it's a rather unique situation.

Offline OliverD

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Re: The things that make me sad, angry, and upset
« Reply #14754 on: September 19, 2024, 09:21:47 am »
The biggest problem with home schooling is there is a great chance your kids will grow up to be total weirdos. Doesn't help that many of the people who home school are total weirdos themselves.  :P

My brother in law's kids are going to be home schooled, and they are religious nuts to boot. I feel bad for those kids.

Offline valuator

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Re: The things that make me sad, angry, and upset
« Reply #14755 on: September 19, 2024, 09:40:58 am »
The biggest problem with home schooling is there is a great chance your kids will grow up to be total weirdos. Doesn't help that many of the people who home school are total weirdos themselves.  :P

My brother in law's kids are going to be home schooled, and they are religious nuts to boot. I feel bad for those kids.

We've long concluded that the social aspects outweigh whatever academic benefits we would get from home schooling, and it doesn't really work with two parents that both supposedly work full time  :rofl2:

And yes, I do remember when kids would transition from either home schooling or the local private Christian academy into public school, and it was always a disaster.

Offline PJungnitsch

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Re: The things that make me sad, angry, and upset
« Reply #14756 on: September 19, 2024, 09:47:02 am »
limit is 50 but guarantee cars are doing 65 on it...

I think a big part of the problem is cars are getting better, ironically. Vehicles have way more power than they used to have, are quieter, have better traction, smoother engines, etc. They drive faster but at the same time don't feel as fast while doing it. We had an Explorer for a while in the fleet and it was interesting how it turned you into 'that guy', everyone else seemed to be driving way slower than they should

At the same time visibility is often much worse with large roof pillars, small windows, and big hoods.

Safety systems are very advanced to protect the driver, with 10 airbags etc but have not progressed the same (yet) to stop in case of things like a child running out. The Subaru system just upgraded last year to help recognize smaller objects like people but even then there is physics to deal with

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Re: The things that make me sad, angry, and upset
« Reply #14757 on: September 19, 2024, 10:09:39 am »
just coming back from Europe, specially the Netherlands.  The traffic seams more chaotic over there than here but in a sense it feels safer for everyone not in a vehicle.  In my opinion, the number one major issues is the size of the vehicles,  almost all vehicle are too high and the hood is too tall which creates massive blinds spots in pretty much every directions.

Offline OliverD

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Re: The things that make me sad, angry, and upset
« Reply #14758 on: September 19, 2024, 10:14:28 am »
limit is 50 but guarantee cars are doing 65 on it...

I think a big part of the problem is cars are getting better, ironically. Vehicles have way more power than they used to have, are quieter, have better traction, smoother engines, etc. They drive faster but at the same time don't feel as fast while doing it. We had an Explorer for a while in the fleet and it was interesting how it turned you into 'that guy', everyone else seemed to be driving way slower than they should

At the same time visibility is often much worse with large roof pillars, small windows, and big hoods.

Safety systems are very advanced to protect the driver, with 10 airbags etc but have not progressed the same (yet) to stop in case of things like a child running out. The Subaru system just upgraded last year to help recognize smaller objects like people but even then there is physics to deal with

Not to mention how many people are driving large vehicles that are just inherently more dangerous but with little consequence to the operators.

Offline Great_Big_Abyss

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Re: The things that make me sad, angry, and upset
« Reply #14759 on: September 19, 2024, 10:48:33 am »
Yeah, and that's why the 30 km/hr 'slow zones' get enlarged to not just in front of schools but for a good chunk on either side of them, like our neighborhood.

Edmonton dropped to 40 km/hr in regular residential, and it's not that crazy when you think about it. There really isn't much time if a kid darts out like that
I disagree with moving to 40kph in regular residential.  Can we agree that modern vehicles stop quicker, handle better, and have safety systems to make them safer like auto braking.  So what has changed with humans?

What has changed is that we are finally realizing that for the past ~80 years we have been prioritizing the car over every other method of personal transportation and that has resulted in making streets much more dangerous than they need to be. All the things we do that allow cars to go faster – wider lanes, high radius street corners, removing trees beside streets, etc. – make things dangerous not only for pedestrians and cyclists but also for drivers and passengers.

We can try to put the onus on pedestrians as much as we want but it doesn't change a very fundamental truth: When a pedestrian makes a mistake and gets hit by a car (as nearly happened in GBA's video), the chance of death or serious injury is extremely high. When a driver makes a similar mistake and hits a pedestrian, the chance of injury or death is nearly zero. And even if as a pedestrian you follow all the rules, so many drivers who are low skilled to begin with are further enabled to drive faster and remain ignorant of their surroundings thanks to poor street design, that being a pedestrian is still inherently much more dangerous than it should be.

I think that lowering limits to 40 or even 30 in residential areas is good. The problem is that it isn't good enough. If a street is designed for higher speeds, people will drive faster. It needs to be in combination with actual design changes like bump outs at intersections, raised crosswalks, street trees, expanding on street parking, narrower lanes, etc.

This.  So much This. 

Even just walking the dog around the neighbourhood, I'll notice drivers slow down for a stop sign then run it, even though I'm standing there waiting to cross. 

My Daughter rides her bike to school most days, and sometimes at lunch or after school, her and a friend will ride their bikes to McDonalds to get an ice cream or a small snack.  She's 11, and for us parents that sort of thing is an important part of her developing some self-reliance and learning how to interact in the world without her parents to guide her through it. 

She has to cross a regional street to get to McDonalds from our neighbourhood.  There is a crosswalk (unsignaled, just a sign and some lines on the ground) that she needs to use to cross that street.  I've lost count of the number of times that people driving completely miss or willfully ignore that there is somebody waiting to cross at the crosswalk, and a line of cars just keeps driving through until eventually there is a break in traffic, or SOMEBODY stops to let the pedestrian cross.  We've taught my daughter to be VERY cognizant of the fact that drivers just don't or won't see her, so to be extra cautious when crossing at that location. 

A few years ago in Grade six she was a crossing guard at her school.  She had the yellow vest and flag - the whole kit.  She was still in the crosswalk flagging someone across when some douchebag in a work truck just drove right through and came within inches of hitting her. 


I think that Johnny Mac's argument of blaming pedestrians holds very little water.  I think the onus is much more on terrible drivers.  Or poor street design.  Our streets are designed to allow cars go faster than they should be going, especially in residential neighbourhoods, or high pedestrian areas.