Topic: 2015 407 Etr rates

[superukr]

You can quibble about the price they sold it at (though the future of investment monies is always nebulous) but you cannot quibble with the concept of selling it.

I mean if they were offered a high enough price then why not? 

The route is operated privately under a 99-year lease agreement with the provincial government. The lease was sold in 1998 for approximately C$3.1 billion to a consortium of Canadian and Spanish investors operating under the name 407 International Inc.
...
When Mike Harris was elected Premier in 1995 on his platform of the Common Sense Revolution, the Ontario government faced a $11 billion annual deficit and a $100 billion debt. Seeking to balance the books, a number of publicly owned services were privatized over the following years. Although initially spared, Highway 407 was sold quickly in the year leading up to the 1999 provincial elections.
...
On October 5, 2010, the Canadian Pension Plan announced that an agreement was reached with the owners of the roadway to purchase 10% stake for $894 million.[30] This implies a value of close to $9 billion for the highway in its current state. However, in 1998, Minister of Provincial Parliament (MPP) E.J. Douglas Rollins found that as much as $104 billion had been spent by the province to that point.

Source: Stupid Wikipaedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Highway_407
So, cost us $104 Billion to build, and we sold it for $3.1 Billion.  Great deal, Harris, ya d!ck.

Revenues could have been used for road maintenance, OR, y'know, education, healthcare, lawyers' salaries, etc.

article is kind of misleading
majority of funds were used for purchasing the land on which HW was built, and that land still belong to province
dont forget that it is lease but not purchase

[mmret]

The land (if its just related to the strip that the 407 is on) only has value if it has productive purpose, though. So it has to be included in a way.

Also with 99 years its pretty much the entire value of the thing. Even at rates this low the PV of cashflows 99+ years out is basically nil.

Anyways, I fully believe they did sell it at a dumb price to balance one year's books (which is beyond retarded, but that is politics for you).

My point, however, is that you can't say that the government should never sell off infrastructure to private investors.

[Rupert]

  You don't give away your undergarments to foreign countries. Drake would have jumped overboard. Yeah, stay off it. Snowman can then have it and pay more to sail the Main. I can't afford it anymore.
  Not being able to use the wide property for Rapid Transit is a huge blunder I think, if true. Still we don't know where entitlements might have taken it by now and a financial return for general Joe Soap public might not be in the offing at this point.
   Anyway, the sale was a later event by a government which included the cancellation of photo radar in it's election plank; as I recall. Which may have netted many votes. I can't seem remember which party it was now but do seem to recall common sense was a theme.

[quadzilla]

Anyway, the sale was because of speeders if you remember....most of the folk on here with the 300hp raves. The Common Sense was a promise to cancel Photo Radar, if I recollect correctly and you guys all jumped on board and the rest is history. You only have yourself to blame. Too bad we all had to take a bath.

[mmret]

Anyway, the sale was because of speeders if you remember....most of the folk on here with the 300hp raves. The Common Sense was a promise to cancel Photo Radar, if I recollect correctly and you guys all jumped on board and the rest is history. You only have yourself to blame. Too bad we all had to take a bath.

I, too, am confused.

[Rupert]

Yeah ok I see the confusion. I modified it.

[tpl]

Speeders and the 407.    When the road was in the late planning stages when Bob Rae was in charge the plan was to make it a higher limit to make up for paying tolls to use it, like the French Autoroutes.   Sadly the OPP objected and the government paid attention to them.

[Rupert]

   Not that my opinion stands for much...but I have no problem with a higher speed limit on suitable highways and even though across town, the 407 seemed such a one. The problem is what limit do you set. 400 highways outside of towns might be set a bit higher too. Policing highways is a dangerous job I think and perhaps, with photo radar, higher limits would be more palatable. It's a mares nest.

[Ex-airbalancer]

Need to do 2 jobs in Burlington on Wednesday, it only about 160 km away 

It is also the day they start charging for 407 eastern section which is only 20 km , at 19 cents a km,
The cost to go about 120 km would be $40 

[Noto]

Yup, pretty sickening.

While I'm not sad to have moved to Ottawa, it seems like I may be moving back to Guelph in July (or New York, or California, whatever), in which case those transponders of ours will start getting weekend workouts

[Allen]

Worth every penny.. the 401 is a $hit show 7 days a week.. I even use it on weekends if I am going right across the city

[Blueprint]

While I'm not sad to have moved to Ottawa, it seems like I may be moving back to Guelph in July (or New York, or California, whatever),

The Capital not working out for you? I'll be in Ottawa for business at the end of April - let's have a pint! 

[Noto]

While I'm not sad to have moved to Ottawa, it seems like I may be moving back to Guelph in July (or New York, or California, whatever),

The Capital not working out for you? I'll be in Ottawa for business at the end of April - let's have a pint! 

I'm absolutely down for a pint!

...and it's not that Ottawa isn't working for me, it's that I follow my wife so she can continue with her career path.  It sucks, because I actually love Ottawa and my job here, but I move where I gotsta move.

[ArticSteve]

Need to do 2 jobs in Burlington on Wednesday, it only about 160 km away 

It is also the day they start charging for 407 eastern section which is only 20 km , at 19 cents a km,
The cost to go about 120 km would be $40 

Every dog has had it's day.

The GTA is completely facked now.  Still OK for Vampires.

[Ex-airbalancer]

Need to do 2 jobs in Burlington on Wednesday, it only about 160 km away 

It is also the day they start charging for 407 eastern section which is only 20 km , at 19 cents a km,
The cost to go about 120 km would be $40 

Every dog has had it's day.

The GTA is completely facked now.  Still OK for Vampires.

I will leave the house about 4:30 am, get there about 6:30 missing traffic across the GTA , I have the code to get into the place , hopefully be leaving the GTA before 3 pm

[ArticSteve]

I understand.  It's like a military covert mission now.  Planning and luck.

East bound across Toronto horrible.  I'd say maybe 1:00 pm from Pearson east is a crap shoot.  Me, I always come down the 410 to 427 south to QEW east into downtown and rarely get screwed.  Always see the 401 east stopped at 427 onward.  You remember what is was like in the olden days     .   It's still impossible to accept ppl can withstand that even ONCE a year! 

[Ex-airbalancer]

I understand.  It's like a military covert mission now.  Planning and luck.

East bound across Toronto horrible.  I'd say maybe 1:00 pm from Pearson east is a crap shoot.  Me, I always come down the 410 to 427 south to QEW east into downtown and rarely get screwed.  Always see the 401 east stopped at 427 onward.  You remember what is was like in the olden days     .   It's still impossible to accept ppl can withstand that even ONCE a year! 

In the mid '80's you could get on the 401 at Hwy 10 at 6:45 am and across the GTA without traffic , the good old days , 1/2 the people on the forum were still in kindergarten than 

[Mike]

I understand.  It's like a military covert mission now.  Planning and luck.

East bound across Toronto horrible.  I'd say maybe 1:00 pm from Pearson east is a crap shoot.  Me, I always come down the 410 to 427 south to QEW east into downtown and rarely get screwed.  Always see the 401 east stopped at 427 onward.  You remember what is was like in the olden days     .   It's still impossible to accept ppl can withstand that even ONCE a year! 

Westbound through Mavis is a parking lot from about 1 pm onward. I just look out the office windows and see everyone crawling along.

[Ex-airbalancer]

I understand.  It's like a military covert mission now.  Planning and luck.

East bound across Toronto horrible.  I'd say maybe 1:00 pm from Pearson east is a crap shoot.  Me, I always come down the 410 to 427 south to QEW east into downtown and rarely get screwed.  Always see the 401 east stopped at 427 onward.  You remember what is was like in the olden days     .   It's still impossible to accept ppl can withstand that even ONCE a year! 

Westbound through Mavis is a parking lot from about 1 pm onward. I just look out the office windows and see everyone crawling along.

Let's just agree the 401 is fack across the GTA 

[carcrazed]

Not just 401, everywhere in the GTA 6:30am-7:30pm is a gongshow.
I see the 401/Bayview out my window when I get home around 6pm, facing west. It's like having a Christmas light show every evening!

I'll miss the view when I move to Newmarket in a couple of weeks.