Topic: Electric Vehicle News Thread

[revalations]

Hmmmm…..cheap Chinese EV’s. What could possibly go wrong? 

[BWII]

https://mobile.guideautoweb.com/articles/74420/jeep-sabre-le-prix-du-grand-cherokee-4xe-qui-devient-admissible-aux-rabais/

Grand Cherokee PHEV base price reduced from $77K to $60K and becomes eligible to $7.5K of subsidies! 

Saw that too, 18k price reduction ! Dealers must be dealing with pissed pre-reduction customers.

It's still a Jeep.  Though.  So... 

[PJungnitsch]

Hmmmm…..cheap Chinese EV’s. What could possibly go wrong? 

Something for the neighbors to buy first maybe, preferably not one next door. 

That being said, doesn't look like these guys build cheap stuff. Maybe more the iPhone side of Chinese manufacturing than the dollar store

BYD is one of the world's biggest battery makers. It builds electric trains, buses (hundreds of them running in London, under Alexander Dennis bodies), grid storage units, cars, and batteries for all the above as well as for electronic gadgets. BYD has 600,000 employees of which a slightly staggering 50,000 are engineers.

One employee you might have heard of is BYD's design boss, Wolfgang Egger. He did the Alfa 8C Competizione and 156 during his time as head designer there, and then went to Audi and produced the Q2.






https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/byd/seal

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/byd/atto-3

[WP v3.32]

That truck looks descent. MSRP?

[Blueprint]

That truck looks descent. MSRP?

The Mexican equivalent of $50k-ish USD according to MotorTrend.

[Blueprint]

Hmmmm…..cheap Chinese EV’s. What could possibly go wrong? 

Something for the neighbors to buy first maybe, preferably not one next door. 

That being said, doesn't look like these guys build cheap stuff. Maybe more the iPhone side of Chinese manufacturing than the dollar store

While no fan of Chinese democracy and economics, I got to say this - the Polestar 2 I drove, a car more Geely than Volvo, is the best-screwed together car I ever reviewed - and EV's show no mercy for rattles and squeaks. The S90 PHEV I drove was also real tight.

Quality will vary of course - my neighbour's Model Y - probably Chinese, there's no "made in" sticker, conveniently - has panel alignment issues (the hatch rubs when closing). But the big players like BYD and Geely have left their Vinfast days way behind.

[rrocket]

. Competition like this is necessary;

So it is indeed obtuse then! Good for you!

You're totally clueless on the difference between competition...and unfair competition.

[rrocket]

The base monthly wage at BYD is 2,400 yuan.

Or about $425 Canadian per month.

[rrocket]

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/inside-story-elon-musks-mass-firings-tesla-supercharger-staff-2024-05-15/

[Allen]

And we keep pi$$ing into the wind...
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/money/topstories/green-canada-accelerating-ev-investments-as-automakers-reverse-course/ar-BB1ms8VX?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=8e643f806a664aff82d42afbddcd37ff&ei=20

[Guy]

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/inside-story-elon-musks-mass-firings-tesla-supercharger-staff-2024-05-15/

He's beyond nuts..

[Ontariodriver]

. Competition like this is necessary;

So it is indeed obtuse then! Good for you!

You're totally clueless on the difference between competition...and unfair competition.

You do realize that Tesla uses child labor and exploitation?  all carmakers in fact. Tesla, are really ramping up their efforts to make more electric vehicles in the U.S. That's great for the environment, but there's a bit of a snag. You see, a lot of the batteries for these cars need cobalt, and a big chunk of that cobalt comes from mines in the Congo, where children are often involved in the mining process under really unsafe conditions. A recent study found that car companies aren't doing enough to make sure they're not getting cobalt mined by kids. Even though Tesla says they're not directly buying from these mines, they still end up with cobalt from them through middlemen. It's a tough situation because the cobalt from these unsafe mines often gets mixed up with cobalt from bigger, safer operations, making it hard to separate the two. So, even if companies try to avoid it, they still end up with some of this problematic cobalt. Governments need to step in and regulate these small mines better, making them safer and ensuring fair labor practices. But right now, not much is being done beyond just acknowledging the issue.

 https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2023/02/08/battery-push-by-tesla-and-other-ev-makers-raises-child-labor-concerns/?sh=6e2266a67789

USA, just like china, uses child labour and exploitation and unfair practices. It's up 69% since the pandemic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/07/us/child-labor-us-companies.html

Companies like McDonald’s, Costco, Ford, and others are taking steps to address child labor in their supply chains. McDonald’s is having private inspectors check overnight shifts at meat suppliers after reports of children as young as 13 working there. Ford is increasing audits and implementing stricter identification checks for workers. Auditors are now focusing more on night shifts and those employed by outside contractors. Other big names like Starbucks, Whole Foods, and PepsiCo are also revising their audit requirements to address this issue. The problem is widespread, with children working in dangerous conditions across various industries. Auditors have often missed these violations.

BYD, is already here in Canada and some cities are using china-made buses.

https://en.byd.com/news/byd-electric-buses-rollout-across-canadas-largest-city/

[Blueprint]

^^ A few BYD taxicabs made their way here too, legally through some early EV adoption program of sorts.

[rrocket]

. Competition like this is necessary;

So it is indeed obtuse then! Good for you!

You're totally clueless on the difference between competition...and unfair competition.

You do realize that Tesla uses child labor and exploitation?  all carmakers in fact. Tesla, are really ramping up their efforts to make more electric vehicles in the U.S. That's great for the environment, but there's a bit of a snag. You see, a lot of the batteries for these cars need cobalt, and a big chunk of that cobalt comes from mines in the Congo, where children are often involved in the mining process under really unsafe conditions. A recent study found that car companies aren't doing enough to make sure they're not getting cobalt mined by kids. Even though Tesla says they're not directly buying from these mines, they still end up with cobalt from them through middlemen. It's a tough situation because the cobalt from these unsafe mines often gets mixed up with cobalt from bigger, safer operations, making it hard to separate the two. So, even if companies try to avoid it, they still end up with some of this problematic cobalt. Governments need to step in and regulate these small mines better, making them safer and ensuring fair labor practices. But right now, not much is being done beyond just acknowledging the issue.

 https://www.forbes.com/sites/alanohnsman/2023/02/08/battery-push-by-tesla-and-other-ev-makers-raises-child-labor-concerns/?sh=6e2266a67789

USA, just like china, uses child labour and exploitation and unfair practices. It's up 69% since the pandemic.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/07/us/child-labor-us-companies.html

Companies like McDonald’s, Costco, Ford, and others are taking steps to address child labor in their supply chains. McDonald’s is having private inspectors check overnight shifts at meat suppliers after reports of children as young as 13 working there. Ford is increasing audits and implementing stricter identification checks for workers. Auditors are now focusing more on night shifts and those employed by outside contractors. Other big names like Starbucks, Whole Foods, and PepsiCo are also revising their audit requirements to address this issue. The problem is widespread, with children working in dangerous conditions across various industries. Auditors have often missed these violations.

BYD, is already here in Canada and some cities are using china-made buses.

https://en.byd.com/news/byd-electric-buses-rollout-across-canadas-largest-city/

Its way, way, way more than just child labor.

But, of course, that's the single issue you're fixated on.

But you do you...and keep sleepwalking and ignoring all the other aspects that render this unfair competition.

[Ontariodriver]

But, of course, that's the single issue you're fixated on.

But you do you...and keep sleepwalking and ignoring all the other aspects that render this unfair competition.

Because you're not really saying anything new, and the US is doing the same thing. Most Chinese EVs are sold based on volume, like BYD. BYD is actually bigger than GM and began as a phone battery company. China's supply chain efficiency is incredibly impressive, but many EVs are being produced at cost.

China has filed a complaint with the World Trade Organization against the US, alleging that the US's Inflation Reduction Act (IRA) unfairly discriminates against foreign automakers, particularly those from China, by subsidizing only domestic EV manufacturers. China argues that this policy disrupts fair competition and hinders global efforts to expedite EV adoption and combat climate change. Chinese EVs, known for their affordability and technological advancements, have seen success in various markets globally but have yet to enter the US market due to barriers like tariffs and subsidy policies favoring domestic production which creates unfair playing field.

[EV Dan]

It's the proverbial having the cake and eating it. We can have cheap Chinese cars flood the market BUT no jobs in the auto and all related industries and Canada inch closer to becoming a third world country. 

[Ontariodriver]

It's the proverbial having the cake and eating it. We can have cheap Chinese cars flood the market BUT no jobs in the auto and all related industries and Canada inch closer to becoming a third world country. 

Just like NAFTA, which devastated Windsor, London, and other places in Canada, there's concern about the impact of potential trade agreements. However, Canada is poised to become a global leader in EV battery production, leveraging its existing mining industry. This suggests that history might not repeat itself in the same way. Europe has already integrated Chinese cars into its market without causing widespread job loss or turning other EU countries into third-world nations.

[rrocket]

. Chinese EVs, known for their affordability and

Yes and that "affordability" is because of all the things they DON'T do that automakers in the U.S. MUST do to build cars..like follow labor, safety and environmental laws, pay decent wages, pay benefits, not use slave labor, follow vehicle safety standards, etc etc etc and the list goes on and on. Ditto for their mining and steel industries.

Those at BYD make $425 CDN per month...and often working the "996" schedule despite the gov't saying it doesn't happen (the workers say it's the norm). Multiple companies house their employees in barracks on site or nearby.

To show you how cheap all this cheating is, the BYD Seagull costs $11k in China. To build the EXACT same car and sell in Mexico would cost $22k...per BYD. A 100 percent increase! Add in $3-$5k more to pass crash regulations. And Mexico isn't exactly up to the standards of the US, either.

That's how  much can be saved by cheating and skirting regulations..the hallmark of the Chinese EV industry.

But you keep being obtuse and thinking that this is "normal" and "healthy" competition or that China has figured out a novel way to build cars that American companies haven't (apart from cheating that is).

I worked in the auto industry 30 years so I know first-hand. How do I know? Because we owned a plant in China.

What's your life experience in this sector? What you read on the internet or your Communist newspaper?

Are you Chinese ethnicity by chance? Or a card carrying Communist? A pinko maybe? Or do you like Winnie the Pooh?

[Ontariodriver]

Are you Chinese ethnicity by chance? Or a card carrying Communist? A pinko maybe? Or do you like Winnie the Pooh?

What is with the abuse? I'm not rude to you and I thought we were all here to discuss about the EV market and to learn new things, but so far all you done is name call, if anything it just showing your hick and I'm not going to respond anymore. 

[rrocket]

Are you Chinese ethnicity by chance? Or a card carrying Communist? A pinko maybe? Or do you like Winnie the Pooh?

What is with the abuse? I'm not rude to you and I thought we were all here to discuss about the EV market and to learn new things, but so far all you done is name call, if anything it just showing your hick and I'm not going to respond anymore. 

I assume you're either Chinese/Communist/Pinko/Winnie the Pooh lover since you parrot the talking points of the Chinese EV industry propoganda in the face of facts.

You aren't discussing...You're 100 percent a Chinese EV Stan who willfully refuses to concede that this is unfair competition for a myriad of reasons stated previously.

I welcome you no longer responding with that nonsense.

You wanna talk EVs..fine. But cut the crap...this is textbook unfair competition. Period.