Topic: Sensation seeking behaviour and risk tolerance

[rrocket]

I know people who are 1s, even looking at a car is dangerous for them.

Probably 90% of the gov and tech employees in Ottawa.

I'd say I'm prob a 6 I don't do anything crazy except instruct people in race cars.

That's actually pretty safe IMO.  Lots of safety equipment, etc..


LOL @ the gov't employees....

[wing]

Safety equipment?  Helmet that is all.

[rrocket]

Safety equipment?  Helmet that is all.

Race car?  No cage, not proper seats, etc. ??  It's still safe.  Ever been to a track day or instructing day where someone died?  I haven't...and that was motorcycles which are infinitely more dangerous.

More likely to get hurt on the drive to/from track by a mom in her minivan...

[wing]

Guess you haven't read about the driving instructors that have died recently.

That said I do feel it is pretty safe, to some I'm a nut job.

Heck I took a friend who tracks regularly for a ride last fall in the mazda3 tester around Calabogie, he thought I was a nut bar driving, I felt like I was at 7 /10ths, guess he didn't like 4 wheel drifts and forced oversteer haha

[rrocket]

Guess you haven't read about the driving instructors that have died recently.

It certainly can happen.  But it's rare.

Like I said...I'm more worried of the ride home!

[mlin32]

It certainly can happen.  But it's rare.

Like I said...I'm more worried of the ride home!

I get worried when I have to drive long distances in the US. Unlike Ontario or Québec, there are no real speed restrictions for truckers in the US so it is not uncommon to see them barrel along at 120-130+ km/h in the mountains. How egregious the behaviour is will vary by state but it's alarming sharing the road with some truckers who are trying to make up time and pick whatever lane they choose and drive as quickly as gravity lets them.

Back on topic, I'm relatively young and for better or worse, tend to have hobbies that involve higher risk and speeds. DH MTB is my primary sport that I participate in, and I also do some races. But within these activities I am a bit conservative in managing the risk- I may push the envelope but never to the point where I would not be able to partially rein something in. It is this careful risk management that prevents me from excelling at DH (my results are usually mid-pack within 19-29 year olds) but unlike many of them, I "have to go back to work Monday". Do I wish I could not think twice about hucking my bike down a 3 metre drop? Sure. But I know the costs of failure and unlike everyone else on this board, I don't have reasonably priced healthcare- I'm in the US and have good healthcare coverage, but it's still bloody expensive.

Karting, skiing, DH MTB. Annoyingly my favourite pastimes all involve elevated speeds and risk, but I like to retain control and manage the risk within those sports.

[Patrick_D1]

It certainly can happen.  But it's rare.

Like I said...I'm more worried of the ride home!

I get worried when I have to drive long distances in the US. Unlike Ontario or Québec, there are no real speed restrictions for truckers in the US so it is not uncommon to see them barrel along at 120-130+ km/h in the mountains. How egregious the behaviour is will vary by state but it's alarming sharing the road with some truckers who are trying to make up time and pick whatever lane they choose and drive as quickly as gravity lets them.

Back on topic, I'm relatively young and for better or worse, tend to have hobbies that involve higher risk and speeds. DH MTB is my primary sport that I participate in, and I also do some races. But within these activities I am a bit conservative in managing the risk- I may push the envelope but never to the point where I would not be able to partially rein something in. It is this careful risk management that prevents me from excelling at DH (my results are usually mid-pack within 19-29 year olds) but unlike many of them, I "have to go back to work Monday". Do I wish I could not think twice about hucking my bike down a 3 metre drop? Sure. But I know the costs of failure and unlike everyone else on this board, I don't have reasonably priced healthcare- I'm in the US and have good healthcare coverage, but it's still bloody expensive.

Karting, skiing, DH MTB. Annoyingly my favourite pastimes all involve elevated speeds and risk, but I like to retain control and manage the risk within those sports.

I'm in almost the same boat. I race karts, snowboard, and mountain bike (DH whenever possible). The only one where I'm able to fully shut my mind off to the dangers is karting, for whatever reason. Something about seeing that green flag wave puts me in the zone and allows me to focus solely on getting to the front. This usually ends in solid finishes and wins, but has the potential to end very badly indeed. Nothing like going 120 kph with no seat belts!

[blotter]

There are different kinds of risk, though. Someone who might be a 10 in one type of risk might be a 2 in another. That would be a much more interesting study.

 

my skiing and biking have pretty different risk acceptance levels, as an example. 

and with that being said, I think I'm all over the map.  In general, likely above the average.
however I've done stuff at would (IMO - and some others) that could push me to ten, meanwhile I've been in situations in which I assess the risks and think, "not this time".  So I could end up pretty low.

As I've matured (gotten older) my risk levels have dropped in general.  I'm still pretty risky in certainly types of things.   My wife has also helped keep me in check and in the last few years I've started to change my attitude towards death.   Yes we're all going to die some day, but now I don't do as many stupid things with the thinking of "so what if I die?"   Now I reflect and think of how much I'd like to stick around longer to enjoy life and don't try doing some things that I may have done 10 years ago.


I think money also keeps me in check.  While I believe I'm a little more on the risky side than most, my ability to do risky things is limited by income.   How...  well, if I had a sport car (WRX) I might expose myself to more risk than not.   If I had money to take more trips, these would be trips that would expose me to more risky things.  If I had more money, I could add a few more hobbies to my list.

Location also plays a factor. 
Skiing on a 900 verticle foot mountain is a very different risk factor than say a 9000 verticle foot mountain.
If I had such terrain in my backyard, my risk exposure would increase. 


I would also be curious to understand what we take as "risk tolerance"
some people do "risky" things knowing they have the skill to likely do it, while others try something "risky" because it's a thrill if they manage to do it, although they may not have the skill to get it done.

Is there a difference between just being stupid (stupid risk) and calculated risk?

[HeliDriver]

I used to whitewater kayak with a guy who ended up killing himself on a ridiculous class-6 stretch of river. Turns out he had bipolar disorder, and nobody was too surprised that he ended up killing himself in the water.

So, was he a hard-core athlete pushing the limits of his sport, or a mentally ill individual who ended up committing suicide? I wonder how many of the "10s" are secretly (or not so secretly) the latter? Maybe it's a fine line.

[johngenx]

So, was he a hard-core athlete pushing the limits of his sport, or a mentally ill individual who ended up committing suicide? I wonder how many of the "10s" are secretly (or not so secretly) the latter? Maybe it's a fine line.

There's something to that.  Given my "hobbies" I know quite a few 9's and 10's, and yes, some of them seem quite unbalanced.

[rrocket]

There's something to that.  Given my "hobbies" I know quite a few 9's and 10's, and yes, some of them seem quite unbalanced.

I know athletes are like that too.  So driven in their goals....their a$$hole comes out in social settings...

[johngenx]

Responsibility: I used to be a risk taker but that dissipated when I grew up, especially when I became a parent.  It is irresponsible to expose a minor child to the loss of a parent. Framing this issue as one of preference or hardwiring goes some distance toward validating irresponsible behaviour.

We're going to agree to disagree on this one.  Some of us that are not right at the extreme end of the spectrum are able to alter our behaviour when we have our families, but I truly believe that the very few that operate at the extreme end are driven harder than even the most out of control drug addict.

My dear friend Daryl was one.  When his first child came along, he tried like hell to mitigate his behaviour.  And it worked for a little while.  But he began to suffer from withdrawal worse than any heroin or coke addict.  He became unbearable.  Remember that there is a physical "drug" reward that comes from being in high stress life endangering situations.  I'm familiar with this response and even though I am far below the extreme athletes we're discussing, that response drives me, and drives me HARD.

Daryl was far more driven by this addictive response than me.  He was a solid 9, bordering on 10.  He needed to push things farther and harder all the time.  After his second child, he began to break down.  He returned to the mountains and went harder than ever, seeking that response that he craved more than anything - more than ANYTHING.

Yes, I am talking about him in the past tense.  He's gone - dead soloing a remote and difficult peak.  He left behind a wife and two young children.  And his friends and climbing partners.  So here's the question.  Would his children have been better off not having been given the gift of life at all, or having their lives, but absent their father?  There's no right answer - it depends on your perspective.

I bought a book by Maria Coffey:  Where the Mountain Casts Its Shadow: The Dark Side of Extreme Adventure.  She was the spouse of a high altitude mountaineer that was one of the most envelope pushing climbers of his generation.  His chances of surviving were low on most of his climbs.  I found the book fascinating in that it presents the perspective of those left behind.  Of course, the responses are unique to the individuals - but there were some commonalities.  Some felt that they loved those people for who they were - including and perhaps because of - the love of risk.  Others felt that they'd been cheated out of time.

This is a constant source of friction in my house.  My wife is as low on the scale as people get.  She cannot understand for one minute how strong this drive is within me.  I cannot understand how she doesn't feel this need.

[rrocket]

^^But can't you go out and just climb a mountain?  Or does it have to be a mountain where you can die?

You and I both enjoy bikes....lots.  And while we both enjoyed going 300km/h, we still could get enjoyment from going slower.  For example, riding supermoto is much more technical than doing top speed runs.  And I get tons of satisfaction.  It's still dangerous and I can still die.

Can't you get any satisfaction from doing something "slower"...or perhaps something very technical?

[johngenx]

^^But can't you go out and just climb a mountain?  Or does it have to be a mountain where you can die?

It's not about standing on top.  Sure, that's cool, but it's the physical and mental game of climbing that is the thing.  The more difficult and dangerous the route it ramps up both the mental and physical challenge.

The more involved the peak, the more appeal it has.

[CanuckS2K]

Here is a perspective (not meant to sound judgmental).

Risk taking is being framed in the thread as primarily a function of personality type / preference.  I am sure both play a role.  But there are probably other factors too.

Responsibility: I used to be a risk taker but that dissipated when I grew up, especially when I became a parent.  It is irresponsible to expose a minor child to the loss of a parent.  Framing this issue as one of preference or hardwiring goes some distance toward validating irresponsible behaviour.

Hero Complex: I wonder whether some of this behaviour is driven by a hero complex.  Risk taking is glamourized in pop culture.  The opposite holds true of mature prudence. 

Not suggesting these factors are always present but I bet they play more of a role than many risk takers would care to candidly admit.

Regarding responsibility, I certainly think there is some truth to what you mentioned, AP.  Being a Father of a 3 and a 7 year old, it just wouldn't sit easy with me engaging in extracurricular activities that constantly put my life in jeopardy and potentially leave behind two young kids.  Having said that, I don't participate in extreme sports like that to begin with so perhaps my view doesn't mean much. 

[rrocket]

 Being a Father of a 3 and a 7 year old, it just wouldn't sit easy with me engaging in extracurricular activities that constantly put my life in jeopardy and potentially leave behind two young kids. 

Isn't drinking beer a dangerous, extreme sport?   

[CanuckS2K]

 Being a Father of a 3 and a 7 year old, it just wouldn't sit easy with me engaging in extracurricular activities that constantly put my life in jeopardy and potentially leave behind two young kids. 

Isn't drinking beer a dangerous, extreme sport?   

It would be if I got in the S2000 everytime I had a couple!   

[JacobBlack]

This prompted me to go looking around the web for more info.
And there was a test. And I'm egocentric, so I took it.   

http://testyourself.psychtests.com/testid/2122

87%
Sensation-seekers thrive on new, intense, and varied situations. Their personalities are associated with risk-taking because sensation-seeking drives individuals to seek out highly stimulating experiences, which often include risk. Sensation-seekers have strong positive reactions to intense stimuli. While there are many constructive aspects of this personality type, those with this trait often take more risks, are more impulsive, and become bored more easily. In certain ways, a sensation-seeking personality is an asset - such individuals thrive on stress, action, uncertainty, and challenge. In other ways, it is a liability - they may take outlandish risks. Low sensation-seekers, on the other hand, are reliable, can handle monotony, and prefer to sleep on their decisions. They avoid novel and stimulating experiences.

According to your results, you are very much a sensation-seeker. Sensation-seeking can take the form of searching out harmless yet invigorating stimuli such as art or music, or traveling to an exotic locale. It can also refer to more dangerous risks, intended to achieve an adrenaline rush. You seek out new experiences and may become bored by repetitive, routine tasks. Situations that would induce fear and anxiety in others bring out the best in you.
[\quote]

[rrocket]

And I'm egocentric,

What?  No way....

[JacobBlack]

And I'm egocentric,

What?  No way....

See... we ARE alike!