Author Topic: Comparison Test: 2015 Mazda6 vs. 2014 Ford Fusion  (Read 31710 times)

Offline jyarkony

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Re: Comparison Test: 2015 Mazda6 vs. 2014 Ford Fusion
« Reply #80 on: October 17, 2014, 04:27:17 pm »
Well, "power player" is open to interpretation, but most people would likely take it to mean something along the lines of:

- a market leader in sales
- influential to other competitors
- a product to be emulated by others
- having the ability to largely dictate what other vehicles are like in terms of design, equipment, price, etc
- the dominant brand in the minds of consumers

Of course, the 6 is none of these.

It is only a power player in the minds of automotive writers, who continue to extol its virtues while oblivious to its design issues and general rejection in the marketplace. It truly would make for an interesting case study. Assuming Mazda does not have the resources to pay writers for their opinions like other makes allegedly do, it is remarkable how reviewers continue to ignore the market verdict when it comes to this vehicle.

With the 6  which can only be seen as a failure in the marketplace and now the beloved 3 falling behind its hatch competitors as per today's review of that car, Mazda is in tough. They do not have the resources to retool easily to keep up.

i agree that sale are pathetic and disappointing - they may be up a bit this year, but still pathetic - nowhere near the peak and nowhere near the leaders, and Mazda3 is just barely holding ground with an all new model. CX-5 could very well be eating into both sides as it is doing quite well. Mazda is a little guy, so people have to want the brand or only be looking in a fairly narrow market segment, whereas people can go to a Ford or Toyota dealer and get almost any kind of car/truck. i think lack of a power upgrade (even if it is not commonly purchased) hurts the 6, as does their reputation for small efficient cars - which makes people want to buy the smaller more efficient cars in their showroom...

Here's a few questions for you oldsguy: in which ways do you dispute that the 6 is a good car? does it not drive well? does it not have exceedingly good interior quality that other manufacturers should emulate? does it not have impressive real world and tested fuel consumption that everyone is aiming for? does it not have styling that appeals to many people (to us high-falutin' journalists and peasants like you... okay, i guess not like you)? Should we only ever have comparisons against the Camry and Civic? or would you have us compare it to the Malibu?

The logic is simple: top two finishers in big comparison, highly regarded (yes, by us clearly non-human, uninformed auto writers) in a rematch. it's like saying Firefly wasn't a good TV show just because nobody watched it...
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Offline dkaz

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Re: Comparison Test: 2015 Mazda6 vs. 2014 Ford Fusion
« Reply #81 on: October 17, 2014, 04:54:47 pm »
Mazda is also really strong in BC. Go to Alberta and WA State and it's like the Mazda's have disappeared.

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Comparison Test: 2015 Mazda6 vs. 2014 Ford Fusion
« Reply #82 on: October 17, 2014, 05:03:32 pm »
The negatives that I remember from my stint in a Mazda 6 were the relatively high road and wind noise, the somewhat stiff ride, the centre console layout and HMI.

The Malibu, to take an example, is much more quiet, has a more compliant ride, and with the turbo engine, is pretty quick without having to rev the wee out of it. The interior isn't my favourite, but the HMI is better.

I still like the Fusion with the 2.0L and AWD. It does pretty much everything well. I think the Passat looks good too, but I haven't tried one in quite a while. Needless to say, I'd look at the Regal in this class too.  ;D

I'm not sure if overt sportiness is that big of a draw in the mid-size family sedan market segment.
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Offline Fobroader

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Re: Comparison Test: 2015 Mazda6 vs. 2014 Ford Fusion
« Reply #83 on: October 17, 2014, 05:14:18 pm »
The negatives that I remember from my stint in a Mazda 6 were the relatively high road and wind noise, the somewhat stiff ride, the centre console layout and HMI.

The Malibu, to take an example, is much more quiet, has a more compliant ride, and with the turbo engine, is pretty quick without having to rev the wee out of it. The interior isn't my favourite, but the HMI is better.

I still like the Fusion with the 2.0L and AWD. It does pretty much everything well. I think the Passat looks good too, but I haven't tried one in quite a while. Needless to say, I'd look at the Regal in this class too.  ;D

I'm not sure if overt sportiness is that big of a draw in the mid-size family sedan market segment.

Whats an HMI??
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Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: Comparison Test: 2015 Mazda6 vs. 2014 Ford Fusion
« Reply #84 on: October 17, 2014, 05:33:13 pm »
Human machine interface, the info-screen basically.

I spent a fair bit of my career programming those for industrial use.

Offline Oldsguy

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Re: Comparison Test: 2015 Mazda6 vs. 2014 Ford Fusion
« Reply #85 on: October 17, 2014, 05:34:59 pm »
i agree that sale are pathetic and disappointing - they may be up a bit this year, but still pathetic - nowhere near the peak and nowhere near the leaders, and Mazda3 is just barely holding ground with an all new model.

Actually the 3 is up just under 10% this year, while the 6 is down a shocking 34%! I would have thought the sales numbers would not have been a surprise to you.

Quote
Mazda is a little guy, so people have to want the brand or only be looking in a fairly narrow market segment, whereas people can go to a Ford or Toyota dealer and get almost any kind of car/truck. i think lack of a power upgrade (even if it is not commonly purchased) hurts the 6, as does their reputation for small efficient cars - which makes people want to buy the smaller more efficient cars in their showroom...

That makes no sense. The former models of the 6 used to be fairly common to see on the roads. Now it isn't. Has anything much changed? It certainly doesn't hurt sales of the 3. I have to think that there might be the odd 3 or CX5 buyer who might be able to be shifted to a 6. But that doesn't seem to happen.
 
Quote
Here's a few questions for you oldsguy: in which ways do you dispute that the 6 is a good car? does it not drive well? does it not have exceedingly good interior quality that other manufacturers should emulate? does it not have impressive real world and tested fuel consumption that everyone is aiming for? does it not have styling that appeals to many people (to us high-falutin' journalists and peasants like you... okay, i guess not like you)? Should we only ever have comparisons against the Camry and Civic? or would you have us compare it to the Malibu?

I don't know which ways - THAT"S WHAT I COUNT ON SITES LIKE THIS TO TELL ME. And you don't, when it comes to this car. You just don't - from reading every review of this car on this and other sites it is all rainbows and sunshine. That is my entire point.

I was waiting for the Malibu cheap shot from one of the other meatheads here. I was surprised and disappointed to see it come from you. I did not mention that car, and if you bother to check my posting record here I think it is a lousy offering. But go ahead, take your cheap shot. You seem to do that better than give the reader a full perspective on this car.

Quote
it's like saying Firefly wasn't a good TV show just because nobody watched it...

The analogy is appropriate. I personally thought it was a terrible show, and it did not attract an audience, except for a small fringe group of zealots who thought it was the best thing ever. Sound familiar?
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Offline OliverD

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Re: Comparison Test: 2015 Mazda6 vs. 2014 Ford Fusion
« Reply #86 on: October 17, 2014, 07:17:12 pm »
The analogy is appropriate. I personally thought it was a terrible show, and it did not attract an audience, except for a small fringe group of zealots who thought it was the best thing ever. Sound familiar?

Don't forget that the critics liked it, too – though not as much as they like the Mazda 6. I can't comment though, I've never seen the show.

There's a few things that distinguish the current 6 from the first generation model, which clearly was the better seller.

First of all, Mazda seemed to push a lot of those 6s into fleets. They were very common as rentals but I don't think the same is true for the new one.

Second, that first 6 was available in three body styles and two motors, each with a choice of two transmissions. While the wagon and hatch weren't huge sellers, they definitely helped sales.

Most importantly, the recession had a huge impact on this segment. The leaders — the Accord and Camry — had sales tank and still have not seen sales recover to pre-recession levels. The Sonata and Altima also had sales dip deeply but they have been able to more than recover. The Fusion seemed to have been unaffected by the recession and had sales go up continuously in the U.S. It's a really, really competitive segment that seems to be difficult to break into.

At the same time, it's a relatively small market in Canada that seems to be dwarfed by the demand for compact CUVs which explains the CX-5's success.

Offline rrocket

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Re: Comparison Test: 2015 Mazda6 vs. 2014 Ford Fusion
« Reply #87 on: October 18, 2014, 01:59:51 am »
I mostly agree with Oldsguy!
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Offline Snowman

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Re: Comparison Test: 2015 Mazda6 vs. 2014 Ford Fusion
« Reply #88 on: October 18, 2014, 08:40:46 am »
I mostly agree with Oldsguy!
I Know, scary isn't it  :) But..I really liked Firefly.

Offline Rupert

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Re: Comparison Test: 2015 Mazda6 vs. 2014 Ford Fusion
« Reply #89 on: October 18, 2014, 08:43:10 am »
   From just prior...'a small market here'. Back in Taurus/Sable...Intrepid days of yore...not that long ago these cars were advertised...for middle America as I remember. It must have been a large market back then and there were lots of these cars around. A wage constrained private sector...'sub middle America'...is not going to want to, or be able to afford what is essentially the equivalent or same vehicle today. Not at 1.5 times the price of a 15 or 18 years ago. From a stagnant wage group I suspect that there is sales resistance above the low to mid $20Gs. Mid $30s means small market IMO; unless you have a real standout. You see a lot of Mazda 3s around here probably second highest to the Caravan. Yeah low to mid twenties vehicles...not stripped.

Offline johngenx

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Comparison Test: 2015 Mazda6 vs. 2014 Ford Fusion
« Reply #90 on: October 18, 2014, 01:31:00 pm »
Smaller players have long had trouble in the family sedan market. Mitsubishi didn't make a dent, Subaru has struggled in it. Mazda has had some success but they get wiped off the map when they put out a marginal product. They've had some misses in the 6 and they've had trouble bouncing back.

In some ways Mazda is back. The CX-5 is so strong in the CUV market, which is the hottest segment around and has real margins unlike the compacts. If Mazda hadn't hit it out of the park with it I think their future would have been questionable.


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Offline PJungnitsch

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Re: Comparison Test: 2015 Mazda6 vs. 2014 Ford Fusion
« Reply #91 on: October 18, 2014, 03:25:18 pm »
Mazda is also really strong in BC. Go to Alberta and WA State and it's like the Mazda's have disappeared.

No pickups. I really liked my old B2000, it was a shame the Ford/Mazda connection killed that line of development as it was an excellent truck. Take the RX7/Wankel development money and throw that at a scaled up version and they would have had all the business they could stand in NA.

Never understood why some automakers consider full sized trucks a marginal market.

Offline johngenx

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Re: Comparison Test: 2015 Mazda6 vs. 2014 Ford Fusion
« Reply #92 on: October 18, 2014, 04:22:19 pm »
The F150 is a massive contributor to Ford's profit line.  Toyota might sell far fewer Tundras but makes big $$ on each one.  This is a segment with big money - but plenty of competition and the established players rule the roost with fierce brand loyalty.  Toyota has taken a LONG time to make even a dent.

Offline OliverD

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Re: Comparison Test: 2015 Mazda6 vs. 2014 Ford Fusion
« Reply #93 on: October 18, 2014, 04:42:24 pm »
   From just prior...'a small market here'. Back in Taurus/Sable...Intrepid days of yore...not that long ago these cars were advertised...for middle America as I remember. It must have been a large market back then and there were lots of these cars around. A wage constrained private sector...'sub middle America'...is not going to want to, or be able to afford what is essentially the equivalent or same vehicle today. Not at 1.5 times the price of a 15 or 18 years ago. From a stagnant wage group I suspect that there is sales resistance above the low to mid $20Gs. Mid $30s means small market IMO; unless you have a real standout. You see a lot of Mazda 3s around here probably second highest to the Caravan. Yeah low to mid twenties vehicles...not stripped.

I think the type of people who used to buy those midsize sedans in droves are now buying CUVs which are similarly priced but much more capable in terms of all weather ability and cargo space. And it's not as if that's a cheaper choice.

As for wage stagnation, there's valid arguments on both sides of the issue and I don't think we can say for certain one way or the other if that is true.

Offline johngenx

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Re: Comparison Test: 2015 Mazda6 vs. 2014 Ford Fusion
« Reply #94 on: October 18, 2014, 05:05:31 pm »


I think the type of people who used to buy those midsize sedans in droves are now buying CUVs which are similarly priced but much more capable in terms of all weather ability and cargo space.

This.  I know lots of Accord owners that now own CR-Vs, Camry owners with RAVs, etc.  Very common move now.  Also, aging populations find the higher seating positions of the CUVs more comfy than the sedans.

(My own septuagenarian father prefers the S2K, etc..  Go dad!)

Offline PJungnitsch

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Re: Comparison Test: 2015 Mazda6 vs. 2014 Ford Fusion
« Reply #95 on: October 18, 2014, 05:59:44 pm »
Toyota has taken a LONG time to make even a dent.

True, but they've never really put their back into it. The previous Tundra was a 7/8 design that wasn't going to take over the pickup market any more than the Dakota did, and latest gen's development has been pretty half hearted since the US economic collapse deep sixed everyone's pickup sales.

Changing the head office from California to Texas will probably change their 'pickups don't really matter' way of thinking.




Offline Rupert

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Re: Comparison Test: 2015 Mazda6 vs. 2014 Ford Fusion
« Reply #96 on: October 19, 2014, 10:01:59 am »
   It's a passing strange phenomena that a fairly large section of the population drive around two seat large vehicles with two occasional seats...work vehicles that do no work at all...just for passion. When they could be riding much more comfortably in a vehicle that is designed specifically for their requirements at less outlay and usage of resources. Occasion hauling of trailers is considered work though and they are needed for such and for farm and building site activities....take your muddy boots off before you get in.
   I don't personally believe that the current version of past mid sizers' have moved here though. Probably most are in a size down from the subject vehicles now, or CVP. Yeah CUVs. $40,000 after taxes is serious coin.
   

Offline sacrat

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Re: Comparison Test: 2015 Mazda6 vs. 2014 Ford Fusion
« Reply #97 on: October 19, 2014, 11:00:08 pm »

The Mazda is only a power player in the Auto journalists minds.

This.  X100.

so, "power player" can only refer to sales?  :think:

not quality, appeal and based on previous experiences....

noted. we will now only ever write literal, sales-number based phrases in any review.

Please also note that the Highlander is not actually giant log, nor is the Outback an Australian aboriginal throwing weapon, in case you get confused by that analogy in that comparison.

and from now on, no opinions in the forum, please.

I stand by my contention that "power player" would normally be understood in the context of sales as presented in the intro to the article. It would be normal to refer to the Accord and Camry as power players in the midsize market REGARDLESS of their merits. Oldsguy did an great job of expanding on this theme and the fact that many posters support his points should be all the proof you need (sorry Oldsguy, I'll toss you a "carma"). If the 3 has received more marketing (arguable, as the 6 received lots when it was released) it's because, as a small company, Mazda must rely on the 3 as it's volume seller to fill it's coffers. When I refer to the 6 as an also ran, that in no way refers to it's relative "goodness". I was going to post sales figures for the 6, but several posters beat me to the punch which just shows I wasn't alone in my interpretation of "power player".
« Last Edit: October 19, 2014, 11:03:25 pm by sacrat »
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Offline rrocket

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Re: Comparison Test: 2015 Mazda6 vs. 2014 Ford Fusion
« Reply #98 on: October 20, 2014, 02:26:45 am »
Yep....Oldsguy had it right this time.

Offline OliverD

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Re: Comparison Test: 2015 Mazda6 vs. 2014 Ford Fusion
« Reply #99 on: October 20, 2014, 08:52:33 am »


I think the type of people who used to buy those midsize sedans in droves are now buying CUVs which are similarly priced but much more capable in terms of all weather ability and cargo space.

This.  I know lots of Accord owners that now own CR-Vs, Camry owners with RAVs, etc.  Very common move now.  Also, aging populations find the higher seating positions of the CUVs more comfy than the sedans.

(My own septuagenarian father prefers the S2K, etc..  Go dad!)

While I think that's true too, I was talking about the type of buyers that used to buy midsize sedans, not necessarily the same buyers. What I mean is that the people that used to graduate to 626s from Proteges are now upgrading their Mazda 3s to CX-5s.