Topic: Test Drive: 2015 Audi S3

[Benhaze]

I'm just disappointed with the pricing - not far enough from its 'bigger' sibling.  Same issue with the CLA.  Seems like for the money "saved", you're really sacrificing a lot.  Less so for the Audi and more so for the MB, but the S3's steering and lack of vectoring control makes me wonder why the S4 isn't the better buy.  If you prefer smaller, faster, then yeah, but I think simply too expensive.

I, too, am excited for the redesigned S4 - that thing is gonna be a huge update (else, fail).

Nothing to be disappointed here, considering a Subaru WRX STI costs about the same...except the Subaru can't deliver the level of luxury and refinement that this baby Audi can.

They are too close to call performance-wise as well:

STI
 Zero to 60 mph: 4.6 sec
 Standing ¼-mile: 13.1 sec @ 104.4 mph

Audi S3
 Zero to 60 mph: 4.4 sec
 Standing ¼-mile: 12.9 sec @ 108 mph

Read MT's thoughts:
The 2015 Audi S3 starts at $41,995 including destination, but can be loaded to just over $50,000 with options, as many of the cars available at the press launch were. If you just want turbocharged, all-wheel-drive thrills, you could opt for a Subaru WRX STI and save a couple grand. The ride would be harsher and the interior less premium in the STI, but performance would likely be close to the S3. But the S3 isn’t just more luxurious than Subaru’s rally-bred special, it feels more grown up, too. Its giant-slaying performance credentials come in addition to its sharp, understated styling and nicely appointed interior with useful tech features, all of which make the S3 a great alternative for the hooligan that has to wear a coat and tie every once in a while.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1409_2015_audi_s3_us_spec_first_drive/#ixzz3FllmyHnC

So in my opinion, the Audi is priced right! and the Subaru...it now seems overpriced to me.

I agree 100%.  $44k for a good price for a well equipped Audi with auto and that much power and awd.  Base S4 is 10K more.  That's a huge spread for most people. 

I still think the Golf R is the one to get.  It will probably be around $40-42K.

I will be very surprised if its under $45k.

Why? The last one was $39,675 (+ freight, tax, etc.) and was fully loaded. The regular Golf has become cheaper with the new generation and the new R will probably have some options. I expect the R to be cheaper than the last generation.

Hope you are right. I somehow doubt the Golf R with match the performance of the S3 for a few grand less.

It doesn't according to European reviews. And for the few that intend to bring their car to the track VW still apparently won't allow you to defeat the electronic nannies on the new R (just as on the current one). This would rule out the R for me.

[Benhaze]

I wonder if I could live without the fancier bits................

The nice thing about getting a base model of a higher-end car, esp Audi, is that you get niceties that just don't exist in top models of lesser brands.

In particular, the reference made to Audi's attention to detail is that which I am referring to.

...but what is a $44,000+ car without xenon headlights, I ask?  I like 'em pretty and bright.

Xenons are std on the S3 and you have the following option that is better than Xenon. So what is the issue? (I am like you as I want Xenon minimum or LED...)

Full LED Headlights

The optional LED headlights are testimony to Audi's expertise in lighting technology. LED headlights give the S3 an unmistakably striking appearance, even in daylight, and even more so after the fall of darkness. With a colour temperature of around 5,500 Kelvin, their light resembles daylight and thus is much less tiring for the eyes. The light-emitting diodes are zero maintenance and designed for the life of the vehicle. They also shine in terms of efficiency with their low power consumption. The low beams, for example, consume only around 40 watts per unit, which is less than the already highly efficient xenon plus headlights and much less than conventional halogen headlights.

[dirtyjeffer]

I wonder if I could live without the fancier bits................

The nice thing about getting a base model of a higher-end car, esp Audi, is that you get niceties that just don't exist in top models of lesser brands.

In particular, the reference made to Audi's attention to detail is that which I am referring to.

...but what is a $44,000+ car without xenon headlights, I ask?  I like 'em pretty and bright.

Xenons are std on the S3 and you have the following option that is better than Xenon. So what is the issue? (I am like you as I want Xenon minimum or LED...)

Full LED Headlights

The optional LED headlights are testimony to Audi's expertise in lighting technology. LED headlights give the S3 an unmistakably striking appearance, even in daylight, and even more so after the fall of darkness. With a colour temperature of around 5,500 Kelvin, their light resembles daylight and thus is much less tiring for the eyes. The light-emitting diodes are zero maintenance and designed for the life of the vehicle. They also shine in terms of efficiency with their low power consumption. The low beams, for example, consume only around 40 watts per unit, which is less than the already highly efficient xenon plus headlights and much less than conventional halogen headlights.

yea, i think the base S3 is still pretty nicely equipped...in fact, i don't know if i'd even add anything to it (or keep it minimal) and i likes me some goodies.

[Benhaze]

There is actually one surprising one feature completely missing from the S3 and it might show its relation to the Golf... Memory seats/mirrors. My wife is a foot shorter than me and it is a pain in the a** to readjust seats and mirrors, trust me. And this is increasingly proportional with the number of seat adjustments.

[quadzilla]

It doesn't according to European reviews. And for the few that intend to bring their car to the track VW still apparently won't allow you to defeat the electronic nannies on the new R (just as on the current one). This would rule out the R for me.

Is this really a big concern? I don't know how liberal the electronic nannies are on the new VW but mine (MKV) I find it extremely forgiving and rarely cuts in. Besides, if you are creating so much wheel spin that the nannies have to take over I would think you are very inefficient.

[HeliDriver]

It doesn't according to European reviews. And for the few that intend to bring their car to the track VW still apparently won't allow you to defeat the electronic nannies on the new R (just as on the current one). This would rule out the R for me.

Is this really a big concern? I don't know how liberal the electronic nannies are on the new VW but mine (MKV) I find it extremely forgiving and rarely cuts in. Besides, if you are creating so much wheel spin that the nannies have to take over I would think you are very inefficient.

Me, too. I've tracked my GTI and the nannies are a complete non-issue. If your intention is to lay down fast laps, you'll drive the car smoothly and never wake up the nannies.

[Benhaze]

It doesn't according to European reviews. And for the few that intend to bring their car to the track VW still apparently won't allow you to defeat the electronic nannies on the new R (just as on the current one). This would rule out the R for me.

Is this really a big concern? I don't know how liberal the electronic nannies are on the new VW but mine (MKV) I find it extremely forgiving and rarely cuts in. Besides, if you are creating so much wheel spin that the nannies have to take over I would think you are very inefficient.

Again as I stated this is in a race track environment and for the few that intend to bring their car on the track. Which part did you not read??? I took the time to be pretty clear/specific I thought.... and it has to do more with stability control than traction control. Nothing to do with the driver being inefficient.

[micha]

It doesn't according to European reviews. And for the few that intend to bring their car to the track VW still apparently won't allow you to defeat the electronic nannies on the new R (just as on the current one). This would rule out the R for me.

Is this really a big concern? I don't know how liberal the electronic nannies are on the new VW but mine (MKV) I find it extremely forgiving and rarely cuts in. Besides, if you are creating so much wheel spin that the nannies have to take over I would think you are very inefficient.

Again as I stated this is in a race track environment and for the few that intend to bring their car on the track. Which part did you not read??? I took the time to be pretty clear/specific I thought.... and it has to do more with stability control than traction control. Nothing to do with the driver being inefficient.

Not sure where you read that, but VW does allow you to defeat the nannies on the MkVII R, unlike the MkVII GTI and unlike the MkVI R.

EDIT: It has been mentioned on most reviews, I've read. A quick google search turned up this for example: http://jalopnik.com/the-one-change-that-makes-the-2015-volkswagen-golf-r-so-1575590664

[Benhaze]

It doesn't according to European reviews. And for the few that intend to bring their car to the track VW still apparently won't allow you to defeat the electronic nannies on the new R (just as on the current one). This would rule out the R for me.

Is this really a big concern? I don't know how liberal the electronic nannies are on the new VW but mine (MKV) I find it extremely forgiving and rarely cuts in. Besides, if you are creating so much wheel spin that the nannies have to take over I would think you are very inefficient.

Me, too. I've tracked my GTI and the nannies are a complete non-issue. If your intention is to lay down fast laps, you'll drive the car smoothly and never wake up the nannies.

And perhaps it is because you did not push it hard enough. Anyway, if I choose to turn it off it better be off. If I want to have fun VW should not come and take the fun out.

[Benhaze]

It doesn't according to European reviews. And for the few that intend to bring their car to the track VW still apparently won't allow you to defeat the electronic nannies on the new R (just as on the current one). This would rule out the R for me.

Is this really a big concern? I don't know how liberal the electronic nannies are on the new VW but mine (MKV) I find it extremely forgiving and rarely cuts in. Besides, if you are creating so much wheel spin that the nannies have to take over I would think you are very inefficient.

Again as I stated this is in a race track environment and for the few that intend to bring their car on the track. Which part did you not read??? I took the time to be pretty clear/specific I thought.... and it has to do more with stability control than traction control. Nothing to do with the driver being inefficient.

Not sure where you read that, but VW does allow you to defeat the nannies on the MkVII R, unlike the MkVII GTI and unlike the MkVI R.

I really hope you are right and I hope to be proved wrong.

[HeliDriver]

It doesn't according to European reviews. And for the few that intend to bring their car to the track VW still apparently won't allow you to defeat the electronic nannies on the new R (just as on the current one). This would rule out the R for me.

Is this really a big concern? I don't know how liberal the electronic nannies are on the new VW but mine (MKV) I find it extremely forgiving and rarely cuts in. Besides, if you are creating so much wheel spin that the nannies have to take over I would think you are very inefficient.

Me, too. I've tracked my GTI and the nannies are a complete non-issue. If your intention is to lay down fast laps, you'll drive the car smoothly and never wake up the nannies.

And perhaps it is because you did not push it hard enough. Anyway, if I choose to turn it off it better be off. If I want to have fun VW should not come and take the fun out.

Like I said, if your goal is to be fast, the nannies will not get in your way.

But, yeah, if your idea of fun is to throw the car around and generally drive it like a ham-fisted maroon, then yeah, the nannies will spoil your fun.

[jyarkony]

There is actually one surprising one feature completely missing from the S3 and it might show its relation to the Golf... Memory seats/mirrors. My wife is a foot shorter than me and it is a pain in the a** to readjust seats and mirrors, trust me. And this is increasingly proportional with the number of seat adjustments.

Memory seats not the only missing feature - cooled seats and heated steering wheel... those are the kinds of things I think should be included to fit with the full luxury experience in a small package.

that being said S3 is pretty spectacular, but count me in with those that vote for a RWD manual transmission in this small performance car category, so M235i for me (but really, I'd save my dough and get a BRZ until I'm making 911 money), but this is a more flexible all-round car with a good kick.

[quadzilla]

It doesn't according to European reviews. And for the few that intend to bring their car to the track VW still apparently won't allow you to defeat the electronic nannies on the new R (just as on the current one). This would rule out the R for me.

Is this really a big concern? I don't know how liberal the electronic nannies are on the new VW but mine (MKV) I find it extremely forgiving and rarely cuts in. Besides, if you are creating so much wheel spin that the nannies have to take over I would think you are very inefficient.

Again as I stated this is in a race track environment and for the few that intend to bring their car on the track. Which part did you not read??? I took the time to be pretty clear/specific I thought.... and it has to do more with stability control than traction control. Nothing to do with the driver being inefficient.

If you are pushing the car so far that the nannies have to interfere then IMO you are not an efficient driver. When the tires are past the point of traction and sliding around you are slower around the track. 

[Benhaze]

It doesn't according to European reviews. And for the few that intend to bring their car to the track VW still apparently won't allow you to defeat the electronic nannies on the new R (just as on the current one). This would rule out the R for me.

Is this really a big concern? I don't know how liberal the electronic nannies are on the new VW but mine (MKV) I find it extremely forgiving and rarely cuts in. Besides, if you are creating so much wheel spin that the nannies have to take over I would think you are very inefficient.

Again as I stated this is in a race track environment and for the few that intend to bring their car on the track. Which part did you not read??? I took the time to be pretty clear/specific I thought.... and it has to do more with stability control than traction control. Nothing to do with the driver being inefficient.

Not sure where you read that, but VW does allow you to defeat the nannies on the MkVII R, unlike the MkVII GTI and unlike the MkVI R.

EDIT: It has been mentioned on most reviews, I've read. A quick google search turned up this for example: http://jalopnik.com/the-one-change-that-makes-the-2015-volkswagen-golf-r-so-1575590664

Awesome, thanks for the link/info. I am glad VW will enable that feature for the NA market.

I also found this interesting post on how to resolve that issue on the previous R: http://www.redlinespeedworx.com/vw-golf-r-espesc-defeat-how-to/

The United States version of the MK6 Golf R comes from the factory without the ability to disable traction control. Clicking the traction control button only disables the ASR (Anti-Slip) feature, but holding the button does not disable the ESP/ESC (Stability Control) like all of the other Golf Rs around the world. Disabling this feature is necessary to professionally drive a Golf R around a professional road course.

To Quad and Heli: clearly you cannot be convinced so I rest my case but it also shows your poor understanding about how stability control systems work and how calibrations of these systems vary between manufacturers. Quad, you clearly have never driven on a race track (that is not an oval) with a professional instructor. I suggest you do as it is great fun and you will learn a few things.

[HeliDriver]

^^ oh, FFS.   

[dirtyjeffer]

I don't understand or like why you can't turn off nannies in a car. Please give the consumer the option. I don't care about excuses, give me the option.

For manual RWD and a smaller car the upcoming ATS-V might be killer.......

perhaps a liability issue??

[mmret]

perhaps a liability issue??

Winner!

Someone will crash with ESP off, then claim that they never disabled it, it must have been electro gremlins. Now affecting more than just Toyotas...they have evolved. Fear will spread. 60 minutes will rig something up and Congressional apologies will have to be made.



Anyways if this thing came as a hatch that'd be super awesome. I like the new A3, just find it too short (proportionally) and the rear seat headroom is terrible. IMHO a lot of people with the disposable income for something like the S3 are also coming up on a time in life where practicality is appreciated.

[Noto]

Getting the car that performs 1/2 second faster here or there...is that REALLY what matters here?

I think the reviewers herein hit it bang on - which car is the 'better buy'?  Which one would you rather live with?

In the end, the S3 is the better car with fewer 'sacrifices' to be smaller/cheaper (at least, that's my understanding of the review - unsubstantiated by reference to the review because I'm lazy/busy).

C&D, Motortrend, etc. - I appreciate their measurements, but couldn't for the life of me have my purchase decision swayed by "this one was 13.1s and that one was 13.7s".  A non-communicative steering mechanism, interior comfort/design/ergonomics, or a jerky transmission will undoubtedly sway my dollars.

[quadzilla]

Getting the car that performs 1/2 second faster here or there...is that REALLY what matters here?

Of course it does.  The S3 is the highest performance Audi 3 available.  The AMG 45 is the highest performing CLA.  If one is quicker than the other then it does matter.

If it doesn't matter to you then the A3 is your ride.  And let me properly state - not YOUR RIDE NoTo - but in general.

1/4 mile times only matter on the track. 

[quadzilla]

Getting the car that performs 1/2 second faster here or there...is that REALLY what matters here?

Of course it does.  The S3 is the highest performance Audi 3 available.  The AMG 45 is the highest performing CLA.  If one is quicker than the other then it does matter.

If it doesn't matter to you then the A3 is your ride.  And let me properly state - not YOUR RIDE NoTo - but in general.

1/4 mile times only matter on the track.

Traps speeds indicate passing power.  The numbers matter for a performance car.  No getting around that.  Even for GTi's.

Sure but can we be serious for a second. I have a GTI with a +1 and I have zero issues passing anybody. I didn't have issues even before I +1 it, nor did I have any issues when I drove a Mazda6 Wagon. Come to think about it, when I drove a Protege5 I also was able to pass people. Now hold on to your hat for this....One day I was driving a Vibe and I not only did I pass one car but two at the same time. Shocking isn't it.

Now the S3 is faster than my GTI+ so why would anybody have any issues passing somebody?