Topic: Test Drive: 2014 Cadillac CTS Vsport

[tpl]

But that's the thing. The main reason why people are coming into this thread and saying "this is way too much" is because it's a Cadillac and it's their opinion that it's somehow inferior (whether is actually is or not).

You don't built brand cache and compete with the class leaders through offering a cheaper product. You have to charge the same and build a quality product. That's the only way Cadillac will actually stand on their own two feet shoulder to shoulder with the Germans and Lexus.

Somehow American cars HAVE to be cheaper. It reminds me of the new Vette. All we heard about was the crappy interior. You can now buy a totally luxury interior on the base Vette which can push the price up from the 50s into the 60s and 70s if you tick all the boxes. The complaint then becomes "this is too expensive for a Vette."

You can't win.

I am with you on this one.  Doesn't look too expensive for what it can do.  Making it a lot cheaper would be fine for Ford and great for Hyundai but a REALLY BAD IDEA for Cadillac.


And a Corvette with an interior by Audi would be pretty nice I bet.

[whaddaiknow]

....Hyundai Genesis V8?...

What about it?? Have the naysayers actually been in one, driven it?? Again, "oh my god, $50K+ for a HYUNDAI....are you insane?!?!?!" .

No, ask yourself a different question. Should Genesis V8 be priced in line with the Germans? If not, then why? Then see if you can apply the same logic to Caddy.

[aquadorhj]

....Hyundai Genesis V8?...

What about it?? Have the naysayers actually been in one, driven it?? Again, "oh my god, $50K+ for a HYUNDAI....are you insane?!?!?!" .

i'm thinking Caddy's slightly overpriced, and using Genesis V8 as example on why it is.

From AutoGuide dot com

As a side note, that car competes with the V8 Genesis, makes comparable power and costs roughly $15,000 more for a fully-loaded model. Admittedly, the two cars stand on different planes from a performance perspective, but based purely on cabin quality, Hyundai has a real winner on its hands here.

Cadillac can charge whatever the heck they want.  i just think it's a little overpriced is all.

[Fobroader]

....Hyundai Genesis V8?...

What about it?? Have the naysayers actually been in one, driven it?? Again, "oh my god, $50K+ for a HYUNDAI....are you insane?!?!?!" .

No, ask yourself a different question. Should Genesis V8 be priced in line with the Germans? If not, then why? Then see if you can apply the same logic to Caddy.

Yes it should be, especially that 5.0R spec model. I dont know, to me I evaluate a car by its interior, driving experience, engine, shifting, seating positions....a whole bunch of parameters have to be met in order for me to like it. The badge on the trunk doesn't come into this equation.

[whaddaiknow]

....Hyundai Genesis V8?...

What about it?? Have the naysayers actually been in one, driven it?? Again, "oh my god, $50K+ for a HYUNDAI....are you insane?!?!?!" .

No, ask yourself a different question. Should Genesis V8 be priced in line with the Germans? If not, then why? Then see if you can apply the same logic to Caddy.

Yes it should be, especially that 5.0R spec model. I dont know, to me I evaluate a car by its interior, driving experience, engine, shifting, seating positions....a whole bunch of parameters have to be met in order for me to like it. The badge on the trunk doesn't come into this equation.

Then why doesn't it sell nearly as well as the FGC? For the same reason CTS won't sell?

[rrocket]

The previous CTS-V ruled it's class plus it bullied cars one or two classes above. And it was cheaper than this new car.

So yea, too expensive.

And Vman is full crap. Have never heard anyone say the C7 is anything but the best performance deal on 4 wheels...even when the price is maxed out.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The price is appropriate, and Cadillac would do well to stick with it even at the expense of short term sales. It's the only way to build brand cachet.

[Northernridge]

I look at this way, if the CTS is not competitive with the E Class, A6 and 5 Series, it wouldn't matter if it sold for $40k, I still wouldn't by it. As it is the V-Sport is fully ten grand cheaper (13%) than a similarly equipped/performing Mercedes. How much cheaper should it be?

Funny thing is that I'm not even a Cadillac fan, I just think they did a good (or better) job with the CTS.

[rrocket]

I loved the CTS-V....particularly the coupe (hated the wagon though).  I'd buy one.

I have zero interest in this one.

[rrocket]

This isn't a CTS-V dude. It's not out yet.

This is the Vsport, akin to the Fsport, Msport, Amg package, etc.

I'm comparing it to the CTS-V because it's the SAME price as what the CTS-V was.  Like the C7, it was an incredible performance value.  As for the V-Sport..it's overpriced...that's my argument.

~$75K for a CTS-V or $75K for a V-sport.  No brainer.

Sadly, if they're asking this much for the V-Sport, the real CTS-V might be similarly overpriced...and at that point I lose all interest in it.  To me it's part of what made the previous CTS-V (and the current Vette) so appealing.

[evil_twin]

The previous CTS-V ruled it's class plus it bullied cars one or two classes above. And it was cheaper than this new car.

So yea, too expensive.

Hence why GM made a mistake in keeping the CTS name, but moving it upmarket to the midsize tier.   The old CTS split the difference between the compact and midsize luxo segments.   If they moved it down to be a true compact (i.e. use the CTS name for the ATS), people would feel they are getting better value for a CTS.   "Hey man, cheaper than the last gen!"  Even if it's just a name change.   

It sounds stupid, but it's true.   People can't help but compare the new CTS to the old one...even if the new one is now up size and market.

Call this thing the STS Vsport.

Nobody complains that a 550i is more expensive than an M3, and no one would complain that an STS Vsport is more expensive than a CTS-V.

[evil_twin]

The previous CTS-V ruled it's class plus it bullied cars one or two classes above. And it was cheaper than this new car.

So yea, too expensive.

Hence why GM made a mistake in keeping the CTS name, but moving it upmarket to the midsize tier.   The old CTS split the difference between the compact and midsize luxo segments.   If they moved it down to be a true compact (i.e. use the CTS name for the ATS), people would feel they are getting better value for a CTS.   "Hey man, cheaper than the last gen!"  Even if it's just a name change.   

It sounds stupid, but it's true.   People can't help but compare the new CTS to the old one...even if the new one is now up size and market.

Call this thing the STS Vsport.

Nobody complains that a 550i is more expensive than an M3, and no one would complain that an STS Vsport is more expensive than a CTS-V.

STS has an even worse name than CTS IMO.

Are people shopping in the 70K-80K class really not buying a CTS because they're confused about the last Gen? You'd think people with that much money would at least shop based on face value.

See Ron's posts for evidence of people confusing this new CTS with the last one.  He's essentially comparing the new gen 550i (CTS Vsport) with an old gen M3 (CTS-V).  This wouldn't happen with a different name.

And I'm not in love with the STS name either...pick anything.   ETS, ZTS, VTS!!!

Sell this exact same car for the exact same price but with a new name marketed "above" the old CTS moniker and it would seem like a better value.

[rrocket]

Okay, why is it overpriced, Ron?

If I have to explain to you why a 440HP V-Sport is overpriced compared to slightly cheaper 550+ HP CTS-V that I could get about a year ago, there's no hope in convincing you with your Caddy rose colored glasses on...

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The E class and 5 series are about as large as older S class and 7 series. BMW brought out the 1 series once the 3 series moved up in size, and MB did the same thing with the CLA once the C class bloated. Caddy isn't doing anything unusual.

[Northernridge]

The CTS has two potential big problems, 1) It's not as good a promised which is kind of what everyone is worried about, 2) It hasn't escaped the negative gravity of recent Cadillacs and is from the GM stable (once great but long-since sullied). Either of these will have a negative impact on receptiveness to price. Reminds me of Buick's problem...which they are dealing with pretty well.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Okay, why is it overpriced, Ron?

If I have to explain to you why a 440HP V-Sport is overpriced compared to slightly cheaper 550+ HP CTS-V that I could get about a year ago, there's no hope in convincing you with your Caddy rose colored glasses on...

Aside from the fact that it's a better car in every respect but power.

[evil_twin]

The E class and 5 series are about as large as older S class and 7 series. BMW brought out the 1 series once the 3 series moved up in size, and MB did the same thing with the CLA once the C class bloated. Caddy isn't doing anything unusual.

But this new CTS is more than just generational size growth...

It's actually intended to move upscale.   The old one was often compared against the 3, A4, and C class as it was in no man's land between the compacts and midsize cars.   Not just in dimensions...but features and cost.

[evil_twin]

Okay, why is it overpriced, Ron?

If I have to explain to you why a 440HP V-Sport is overpriced compared to slightly cheaper 550+ HP CTS-V that I could get about a year ago, there's no hope in convincing you with your Caddy rose colored glasses on...

Aside from the fact that it's a better car in every respect but power.

Hence why it should have a DIFFERENT NAME!!!  Make it clear this isn't the old, lower scale CTS!

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The E class and 5 series are about as large as older S class and 7 series. BMW brought out the 1 series once the 3 series moved up in size, and MB did the same thing with the CLA once the C class bloated. Caddy isn't doing anything unusual.

But this new CTS is more than just generational size growth...

It's actually intended to move upscale.   The old one was often compared against the 3, A4, and C class as it was in no man's land between the compacts and midsize cars.   Not just in dimensions...but features and cost.

We'll see how pricing sorts out with BMW and MB, but I'm betting the base prices will be moving up for the C and 3 series once the new entry level cars are established.

If Cadillac wants to be taken seriously, they have to have competitive product, which they seem to have, and they can't be seen as a "value" brand. The whole point of buying a posh brand is to advertise how how much you paid for it, at least for some people..

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Okay, why is it overpriced, Ron?

If I have to explain to you why a 440HP V-Sport is overpriced compared to slightly cheaper 550+ HP CTS-V that I could get about a year ago, there's no hope in convincing you with your Caddy rose colored glasses on...

Aside from the fact that it's a better car in every respect but power.

Hence why it should have a DIFFERENT NAME!!!  Make it clear this isn't the old, lower scale CTS!

New names can be a tough sell, even alphabet soup ones. BMW has caught a fair bit of flak over their recent naming changes.

I'm guessing that the marketers have looked at naming and decided that there is enough value in the CTS name to carry it forward.