Topic: Little things that make you happy

[rrocket]

Dad turns 80 Friday!

Still totally dedicated to restoring the Lancaster.

Here he is putting in rivets.



Here's the panel 500 rivets later.

[Firm]

I am sure I missed something somewhere, but your dad is restoring a Lancaster...as in a Lancaster Bomber? That's really cool, was one of my Grandfather's favorite planes, I have a model he built of it hanging around somewhere.

[rrocket]

I am sure I missed something somewhere, but your dad is restoring a Lancaster...as in a Lancaster Bomber? That's really cool, was one of my Grandfather's favorite planes, I have a model he built of it hanging around somewhere.

Yes! Lancaster Bomber. They also have a Mosquito among others.

But my dad is on the Lancaster team. My bro and I have made bespoke tools (the dimple dies that put the nice radius on the large holes in wing spars is of my design) and machined a reproduction set of mounts for the gun turret bubble were so impressive that a Lancaster team in the UK swapped a bunch of parts for them. To be clear, we're not part of the restoration team. We just help out when my dad asks.

Its the old guys like him that have put in thousands upon thousands of volunteer hours doing this. And they also put on fundraisers. And when they aren't doing those things, they're acting as tour guides for grade school field trips at the hangar.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6858275

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://m.facebook.com/groups/75034966975/&ved=2ahUKEwiny7-0j46DAxVovokEHfagDUMQFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2d7MilSPQQ7UOWUsqAVKPa


Not sure how far your bro and dad are from the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum, but if they ever want to wrench on British warplanes, let me know.

[ktm525]

Interesting. They have a somewhat operational but not airworthy (at least that I know of) Lancaster south of town here. Interesting fact the RCAF flew most missions and the majority of the war with the Halifax with the Lancaster arriving late to the RCAF if at all to see action. RAF must have been priority?

[Bubba]

Dad turns 80 Friday!

Still totally dedicated to restoring the Lancaster.

Amazing!  That's how you keep your mind sharp.

[JohnnyMac]

Dad turns 80 Friday!

Still totally dedicated to restoring the Lancaster.

Amazing!  That's how you keep your mind sharp.

Agreed, to be 80 and still able to do a passion project is the dream. 

[Great_Big_Abyss]

That is awesome.  Huge fan of the Lancaster here.  It went on a tour of Canada, oh I want to say 15 or so years ago.  I took my Grandmother to the airport to see it come in to land in Winnipeg (she grew up in England as a kid and remembered seeing them fly overhead for real).  We parked in a park at the end of the runway, saw the Lancaster come in overhead, it did a fly-over, did a loop, and came in to land.  Then it went and parked at the Aviation museum.  I was able to climb up into the thing, walk up into the cockpit, then back over the wing spar, pop my head into the turret, then out through the back hatch.

[PJungnitsch]

Nice! That's something cool to do in retirement. Those things are like gold nowadays, so few of them left. The one here in Nanton is very impressive in person, huge bomb bay

[ArticSteve]

I think there is an operational Lanc in Hamilton.

My dad was an Air Bomber (the official title) in a Halifax just doing regular bomb runs over Germany.  After his 13th mission he was transferred to a Lancaster Pathfinder.  Apparently he had a good aim.  These Pathfinders would head out from England to Germany in different directions to confused the enemy.  Only one route was the real route.  So along the way the Pathfinder would drop high altitude flares so the Bombers would know where to go. (I have many of the mission maps.  Size of a big table depicting the different routes.)

The Bomber pack was about 10 minutes behind.  They would then find the target.  During this time the flak had not started yet.  As soon as they dropped the target flare (called a Blind Sky Marker) the Germans would let loose with the flak.  But the Pathfinder was clear of the target by then.  However, the bad part as my father lamented was they then flew around in the dark until the Squadron had finished their runs and then the Pathfinder had to go back over the target and take pictures.  Then they'd fly back alone.  He did this 23 times over the course of 11 months.

First pic; his is last combat mission #36 to Nordahusen which is in the center of Germany.

Second pic; is his DFC.  Pretty cool looking medal.

 

[WP v3.32]

I am sure I missed something somewhere, but your dad is restoring a Lancaster...as in a Lancaster Bomber? That's really cool, was one of my Grandfather's favorite planes, I have a model he built of it hanging around somewhere.

Yes! Lancaster Bomber. They also have a Mosquito among others.

But my dad is on the Lancaster team. My bro and I have made bespoke tools (the dimple dies that put the nice radius on the large holes in wing spars is of my design) and machined a reproduction set of mounts for the gun turret bubble were so impressive that a Lancaster team in the UK swapped a bunch of parts for them. To be clear, we're not part of the restoration team. We just help out when my dad asks.

Its the old guys like him that have put in thousands upon thousands of volunteer hours doing this. And they also put on fundraisers. And when they aren't doing those things, they're acting as tour guides for grade school field trips at the hangar.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6858275

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://m.facebook.com/groups/75034966975/&ved=2ahUKEwiny7-0j46DAxVovokEHfagDUMQFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2d7MilSPQQ7UOWUsqAVKPa


Not sure how far your bro and dad are from the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum, but if they ever want to wrench on British warplanes, let me know.

That is a cool project.  Nice for your dad to keep active on something he loves.

[PJungnitsch]

I think there is an operational Lanc in Hamilton.

My dad was an Air Bomber (the official title) in a Halifax just doing regular bomb runs over Germany.  After his 13th mission he was transferred to a Lancaster Pathfinder.  Apparently he had a good aim.  These Pathfinders would head out from England to Germany in different directions to confused the enemy.  Only one route was the real route.  So along the way the Pathfinder would drop high altitude flares so the Bombers would know where to go. (I have many of the mission maps.  Size of a big table depicting the different routes.)

The Bomber pack was about 10 minutes behind.  They would then find the target.  During this time the flak had not started yet.  As soon as they dropped the target flare (called a Blind Sky Marker) the Germans would let loose with the flak.  But the Pathfinder was clear of the target by then.  However, the bad part as my father lamented was they then flew around in the dark until the Squadron had finished their runs and then the Pathfinder had to go back over the target and take pictures.  Then they'd fly back alone.  He did this 23 times over the course of 11 months.

First pic; his is last combat mission #36 to Nordahusen which is in the center of Germany.

Second pic; is his DFC.  Pretty cool looking medal.

Crazy what people survived, that all looks like a lot of very high risk stuff

[ktm525]

Not everyone survived.

80 000 pilots died,
over 500 000 civilians died
60 cities razed to the ground

Still a very controversial strategy. Targeting civilians is always controversial.

A very good Canadian book:

Fire and Fury: The Allied Bombing of Germany 1942-1945 by Randall Hansen

[Great_Big_Abyss]

Not everyone survived.

80 000 pilots died,
over 500 000 civilians died
60 cities razed to the ground

Still a very controversial strategy. Targeting civilians is always controversial.

A very good Canadian book:

Fire and Fury: The Allied Bombing of Germany 1942-1945 by Randall Hansen

I think there was a general lack of sympathy towards Germans after what the British, especially Londoners, endured during The Blitz.

The Blitz through which my Grandmother lived. 

My Great-Uncle on that side of the family was a Desert Rat.  He fought in and alongside tanks in North Africa against Rommel's AfrikaKorps.

[ktm525]

Not everyone survived.

80 000 pilots died,
over 500 000 civilians died
60 cities razed to the ground

Still a very controversial strategy. Targeting civilians is always controversial.

A very good Canadian book:

Fire and Fury: The Allied Bombing of Germany 1942-1945 by Randall Hansen

I think there was a general lack of sympathy towards Germans after what the British, especially Londoners, endured during The Blitz.

You are absolutely correct, similar to what is going on today in Palestine. Crazy what normal people can do and justify in times of stress, looking back with the advantage of time it makes no sense. The German civilians paid for the Blitz 10 times over.   My grandfather was in the RCAF bomber command. He didn't talk about it much but mostly indicated they would hang on as long as their nerves allowed, most missions they dumped their bombs early and got the heck out of dodge. He figures they were off by as much as 25 miles on some missions. Bombing at night with iron ordinance was far from accurate. Of course the RAF had to bomb at night due to the lack of proper fighter escorts that the Americans had.

 

[PJungnitsch]

Not everyone survived.

80 000 pilots died,
over 500 000 civilians died
60 cities razed to the ground

Still a very controversial strategy. Targeting civilians is always controversial.

A very good Canadian book:

Fire and Fury: The Allied Bombing of Germany 1942-1945 by Randall Hansen

I think there was a general lack of sympathy towards Germans after what the British, especially Londoners, endured during The Blitz.

You are absolutely correct, similar to what is going on today in Palestine. Crazy what normal people can do and justify in times of stress, looking back with the advantage of time it makes no sense. The German civilians paid for the Blitz 10 times over.   My grandfather was in the RCAF bomber command. He didn't talk about it much but mostly indicated they would hang on as long as their nerves allowed, most missions they dumped their bombs early and got the heck out of dodge. He figures they were off by as much as 25 miles on some missions. Bombing at night with iron ordinance was far from accurate. Of course the RAF had to bomb at night due to the lack of proper fighter escorts that the Americans had.

It is odd, British resolve stiffened through the Blitz but somehow they thought the Germans would fall apart under the same type of thing. Hardship and a common enemy just seems to bring people together and make them fight harder. I had family on both sides of that war, and both thought they were doing the right thing at the time

Coming back to the Lancaster, those things are LOUD, wow. The one Merlin firing up at Nanton is deafening, can't imagine a field of planes warming up and taking off

[Fobroader]

I think thats what a lot of people don't realize. Today you see missile fired from many miles away hit the exact thing it was designed to hit or a guided bomb go through window of intended target. Not so much in WW2, I forgot what the accuracy rating was but it was low and most missed by miles, not feet. Of course the intended bombing of civilian targets to break morale is always a bad thing, a lot of times they were just kind of in the same area as the ball bearing factory or whatever. My granddad was Bucharest air guard in WW2, so he had the opportunity to fire at allied, German and russian aircraft. My grandma told me how she remembered a huge plane crashing into a few houses on her street and her village getting bombed as it was close to the Ploiesti oil fields.

[Fobroader]

I am sure I missed something somewhere, but your dad is restoring a Lancaster...as in a Lancaster Bomber? That's really cool, was one of my Grandfather's favorite planes, I have a model he built of it hanging around somewhere.

Yes! Lancaster Bomber. They also have a Mosquito among others.

But my dad is on the Lancaster team. My bro and I have made bespoke tools (the dimple dies that put the nice radius on the large holes in wing spars is of my design) and machined a reproduction set of mounts for the gun turret bubble were so impressive that a Lancaster team in the UK swapped a bunch of parts for them. To be clear, we're not part of the restoration team. We just help out when my dad asks.

Its the old guys like him that have put in thousands upon thousands of volunteer hours doing this. And they also put on fundraisers. And when they aren't doing those things, they're acting as tour guides for grade school field trips at the hangar.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6858275

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://m.facebook.com/groups/75034966975/&ved=2ahUKEwiny7-0j46DAxVovokEHfagDUMQFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2d7MilSPQQ7UOWUsqAVKPa


Not sure how far your bro and dad are from the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum, but if they ever want to wrench on British warplanes, let me know.

Thats freaking awesome!!! I remember going on a tour of that museum when I was in the air force, they had one of those RR engine spread into many pieces, it was like looking at a fine timepiece.

[ArticSteve]

It's ridiculous to say that Bomber Command simply sent out 600 Bombers to one target to just randomly drop bombs on things they could not see.  Here is how it worked.  The Pathfinders would be ahead of the main group and find the target using H2S radar which came into effect in late 43.  The Bombers had to drop their loads on the flares.  Each Bombers did not decide independently where or when it was dropping it's bombs.  If a Pilot turned back early with an intact airplane he would have been removed from duty.

The other untruth is that the bombing was aimed primarily at civilian populations.   When my dad was in the Halifax all 13 missions were targets in the Ruhr Valley.  German places that you'd need to look up because they are too small to be normally recognized.  Mission 3; Homberg (Oil Refinery) 2x1000 6x500 6x500  Mission 6; Gelsenkirchen  1x2000 7x1000 4x500  (Jumped Twice; ME100, ME109  34 Missing).

Later in the war when he got into the Pathfinder Squadron, there are a few easily recognizable cities; Mission 15; Cologne - (3 v2 rockets sighted).  Hanover, Munich, Cologne again, Hamberg, Dortmund, Nurnberg x2  (second time the plane got shot up so bad it got taken out of service).  That was a 7 hour trip.  Appears that mission was a civilian target.  28 of the 36 missions were to places that one needs to look up on a map. Mission 20 for example was the Zeitz oil dump.

A few other interesting notes were Mission 2 to Essen; a FW 190 took a run at them.  On Mission 14; the first mission in a Pathfinder, a German jet went right past them.  If you know the Lancaster, the Air Bomber sits in a large plexiglass bubble at the very front on the plane and the view is wide open.  On top of this bubble are 2 303 machine guns.  The Air Bomber's supposedly other job was to operate these guns.  Dad said the guns were useless as the German fighter would be there and gone in just a few seconds.  He said they should have left all 3 gun stations off the plane for weight loss and operated the plane with just 4 people; Pilot, Flight Engineer who acted like a co-pilot, Navigator and Air Bomber who was also an acting Navigator in a Pathfinder.  The two gunners had nothing to keep their minds occupied and just sat their freezing in these plexiglass turrets.  Terrible position and less pay.

[ktm525]

Maybe the Pathfinfders were the ones with the most courage? Probably were.

However at the start of the campaign accuracy was horrendous. It did improve throughout the war. The Butt report  ( A British examination of strategic bombing)  addressed this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butt_Report

Here are the Coles notes:

Any examination of night photographs taken during night bombing in June and July points to the following conclusions:

Of those aircraft recorded as attacking their target, only one in three got within 5 mi (8.0 km).
Over the French ports, the proportion was two in three; over Germany as a whole, the proportion was one in four; over the Ruhr it was only one in ten.
In the full moon, the proportion was two in five; in the new moon it was only one in fifteen. ...
All these figures relate only to aircraft recorded as attacking the target; the proportion of the total sorties which reached within 5 miles is less than one-third. ...
The conclusion seems to follow that only about one-third of aircraft claiming to reach their target actually reached it.[4]



The other point is we cannot bury our heads in the sand on this. The majority of the time there were military targets but there were instances of targeting civilian population centres. The fire bombing of Dresden was pure payback plain and simple. The bombing unfolded over several days with different types of munitions to ensure that the incendiaries that were dropped last had maximum effect.

[rrocket]

I am sure I missed something somewhere, but your dad is restoring a Lancaster...as in a Lancaster Bomber? That's really cool, was one of my Grandfather's favorite planes, I have a model he built of it hanging around somewhere.

Yes! Lancaster Bomber. They also have a Mosquito among others.

But my dad is on the Lancaster team. My bro and I have made bespoke tools (the dimple dies that put the nice radius on the large holes in wing spars is of my design) and machined a reproduction set of mounts for the gun turret bubble were so impressive that a Lancaster team in the UK swapped a bunch of parts for them. To be clear, we're not part of the restoration team. We just help out when my dad asks.

Its the old guys like him that have put in thousands upon thousands of volunteer hours doing this. And they also put on fundraisers. And when they aren't doing those things, they're acting as tour guides for grade school field trips at the hangar.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6858275

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://m.facebook.com/groups/75034966975/&ved=2ahUKEwiny7-0j46DAxVovokEHfagDUMQFnoECBoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2d7MilSPQQ7UOWUsqAVKPa


Not sure how far your bro and dad are from the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum, but if they ever want to wrench on British warplanes, let me know.

Thats freaking awesome!!! I remember going on a tour of that museum when I was in the air force, they had one of those RR engine spread into many pieces, it was like looking at a fine timepiece.

The engines needed a rebuild. IIRC, it was some huge number...$100k each or something crazy? Parts hard to find.

I told my dad to get in touch with Jack Rousch. He didn't know who he was. Back when I was traveling all over the US for work, I was at Rousch a few times. And he had P-51 Mustang. And they told me that Roush needed to refurbish his engines. No parts. So Rousch did what anyone does who has tons of money and a manufacturing footprint: he started making reproduction engine parts! He literally put some engine parts back into production.

Aside: I got invited to Roush company picnic once. Probably the best "picnic" I've ever been to. They rented an entire drag strip. And people raced their cars. Cars, BBQ and family. Was about the best picnic ever for a car guy!