Topic: Comparison Test: 2014 Mid-Size Sedans

[Jaeger]

90% of Camries and Accords sold were Inline 4s though, no?

But at least you have a CHOICE of going with an uprated engine.  No choice with the Mazda.

I don't think you have a choice with the Camry. Is it not auto only?

Blame the lack of choice of stupid diesel development.

Your choice is a 4-banger or one of the best V6s on the market.  Choice is good.

[KD]

90% of Camries and Accords sold were Inline 4s though, no?

But at least you have a CHOICE of going with an uprated engine.  No choice with the Mazda.

I don't think you have a choice with the Camry. Is it not auto only?

Blame the lack of choice of stupid diesel development.

 ...isn't diesel another choice?

[Black Hatch]

90% of Camries and Accords sold were Inline 4s though, no?

But at least you have a CHOICE of going with an uprated engine.  No choice with the Mazda.

I don't think you have a choice with the Camry. Is it not auto only?

Blame the lack of choice of stupid diesel development.

Your choice is a 4-banger or one of the best V6s on the market.  Choice is good.

Choice is good.
You can't get a Camry with a manual transmission.
Hmmm percentages with V6s or percentages with manuals...

[rrocket]

^^If it came down to it...I'd rather be able to get out of my own way with a V6 auto (or turbo 4) than a manual with a weak sauce engine.

Does your CX-5 have a manual?

[fixer]

who wants to drive a taxi....errr I mean a Camry???

[JacobBlack]

who wants to drive a taxi....errr I mean a Camry???

Um, about 800,000 people per year. 10 million people in the US since they started selling them there...
So you know, pretty much nobody..... 

[fixer]

who wants to drive a taxi....errr I mean a Camry???

Um, about 800,000 people per year. 10 million people in the US since they started selling them there...
So you know, pretty much nobody..... 

great expectations...

[Jaeger]

^^If it came down to it...I'd rather be able to get out of my own way with a V6 auto (or turbo 4) than a manual with a weak sauce engine.

Agreed - at least in this category.  But it's not like I would need even as much power as the V6 / turbo class to really love the 6.  Is, say, 225hp too much to ask for in this day and age?  I'd give up a few mpg points for a more responsive throttle.

Just last night I was merging onto the QEW with a semi just ahead of me in the adjacent lane and a long conga line of cars stacked up behind it.  There was space ahead of the truck, but not a lot of merging lane to get there.  No problem in the Sonata (nor would it have been a problem for my V6 Altima).  No way I would have attempted it in the 6.  My only choice would be to slow down even more and wait for some courteous driver in the conga line to let me in.

Choice is good.

[Solstice2006]

^^If it came down to it...I'd rather be able to get out of my own way with a V6 auto (or turbo 4) than a manual with a weak sauce engine.

Agreed - at least in this category.  But it's not like I would need even as much power as the V6 / turbo class to really love the 6.  Is, say, 225hp too much to ask for in this day and age?  I'd give up a few mpg points for a more responsive throttle.

Just last night I was merging onto the QEW with a semi just ahead of me in the adjacent lane and a long conga line of cars stacked up behind it.  There was space ahead of the truck, but not a lot of merging lane to get there.  No problem in the Sonata (nor would it have been a problem for my V6 Altima).  No way I would have attempted it in the 6.  My only choice would be to slow down even more and wait for some courteous driver in the conga line to let me in.

Choice is good.

Yeah we hear you, you only mentioned it a few times.  Kind of like Snowy has a pic of a Porsche everyday... I have a V6 in the Odyssey, and a 4 banger in the Mazda5, don't find much difference in merging on the QEW with either!  Do notice a big difference at the pumps though!  Just merge behind the truck, signal for a few seconds, don't wait till the end of the merging lane, and you will get in.  Then accelerate further, and move to the middle lane, and before you know it, your at the exact position you would have been with a V6 that would have merged in front of the truck... which the trucks hate....

[Jaeger]

Yeah we hear you, you only mentioned it a few times.  Kind of like Snowy has a pic of a Porsche everyday...

Oh, so you've been appointed sole voice of the forum?  Congrats!

[Solstice2006]

Yeah we hear you, you only mentioned it a few times.  Kind of like Snowy has a pic of a Porsche everyday...

Oh, so you've been appointed sole voice of the forum?  Congrats!

Nah, just this thread! You only mention it 5 times!   

And you seem to agree with my opinion of page 9....

[Jaeger]

Yeah we hear you, you only mentioned it a few times.  Kind of like Snowy has a pic of a Porsche everyday...

Oh, so you've been appointed sole voice of the forum?  Congrats!

Nah, just this thread! You only mention it 5 times!   

And you seem to agree with my opinion of page 9....

I'm not sure that keeping a running tally of my posts is a meaningful contribution to the subject of the thread, even if it interests you in some fashion that I don't immediately comprehend.

I have not been randomly mentioning the topic - it has been the subject of discussion as between me and other forum members who have expressed either agreement or disagreement with my viewpoint.  That's more or less what happens on a discussion forum.

Nobody is forcing you to read any of my posts - if you don't like them, be a big boy and use the scroll function, okay?  And like me, you speak for nobody here other than yourself, so how about dropping the pretentious royal "we"? 

PS - The 6 needs more power. 

[Solstice2006]

Yeah we hear you, you only mentioned it a few times.  Kind of like Snowy has a pic of a Porsche everyday...

Oh, so you've been appointed sole voice of the forum?  Congrats!

Nah, just this thread! You only mention it 5 times!   

And you seem to agree with my opinion of page 9....

I'm not sure that keeping a running tally of my posts is a meaningful contribution to the subject of the thread, even if it interests you in some fashion that I don't immediately comprehend.

I have not been randomly mentioning the topic - it has been the subject of discussion as between me and other forum members who have expressed either agreement or disagreement with my viewpoint.  That's more or less what happens on a discussion forum.

Nobody is forcing you to read any of my posts - if you don't like them, be a big boy and use the scroll function, okay?  And like me, you speak for nobody here other than yourself, so how about dropping the pretentious royal "we"? 

PS - The 6 needs more power. 

I was just adding my two cents, when you said "who made you the voice of the forum".  So I was disagreeing, which is my right...

BTW, the 6 will get more power, when Hyundai/Kias can handle properly, and have steering feel!   

[Black Hatch]

^^If it came down to it...I'd rather be able to get out of my own way with a V6 auto (or turbo 4) than a manual with a weak sauce engine.

Does your CX-5 have a manual?

What does my CX-5 have anything to do with this.
No its not manual because there were other priorities.
If all those other items were met and manual was available I would have gotten it.
if ground clearance wasn't a requirement I might have been in a 2013 Mazda6 for less than $20k.

In regards to horsepower, what about your previous echo with 105hp? Do you complain about the lack of?
Was it UNSAFE to merge safety into highways?

Anyways I don't see how 184hp is considered low; a decade ago these 4 cylinders were running around 150hp.

[Solstice2006]

^^If it came down to it...I'd rather be able to get out of my own way with a V6 auto (or turbo 4) than a manual with a weak sauce engine.

Does your CX-5 have a manual?

What does my CX-5 have anything to do with this.
No its not manual because there were other priorities.
If all those other items were met and manual was available I would have gotten it.
if ground clearance wasn't a requirement I might have been in a 2013 Mazda6 for less than $20k.

In regards to horsepower, what about your previous echo with 105hp? Do you complain about the lack of?
Was it UNSAFE to merge safety into highways?

Anyways I don't see how 184hp is considered low; a decade ago these 4 cylinders were running around 150hp.

I guess the hp nuts don't agree with us (given that my carma took a hit -30 and yours -2 since this morning!  ), but the general public seems to think 175hp plus is more than enough.  Maybe it was my trashing the Hyundai/Kia remark?  Oh well, was kinda sick of all the nitpicks...Haven't taken a carma hit like this since arguing with Fobroader and Airbalancer on trucks! 

[OliverD]

Reminds me of when the Mazda 6 came out and some writers were complaining that the V6 had "only" ~220 hp. Meanwhile, 240 hp family sedans had only really existed once the '02 Altima which came out less than two years before the 6.

In the grand scheme of things, 184 hp is not "low" and as proven by take rates for other models, it isn't absolutely necessary to offer higher performance engines in a family sedan. Mazda's issue is that they are a small company with limited resources and right now they simply don't have a more powerful option. It would be interesting to see them develop turbo version(s) of the 2.0 and/or 2.5 SkyActiv engines.

[JohnM]

I can't see manufacturers going through either the development costs or taking the weight penalty of having a chassis that will take V6s.   New CAFE standards and declining customer interest will continue to combine to eliminate the demand for the larger mills.  I've been caught once in my driving life without adequate power to merge and that was in a rental that I was unfamiliar with.  I don't exactly drive power sleds and apparently few other people see 200+ hp as a necessity.

The trend is pretty clear and by 2020, the days of increasing power may well be behind us.

Cheers,
John M.

[Solstice2006]

I can't see manufacturers going through either the development costs or taking the weight penalty of having a chassis that will take V6s.   New CAFE standards and declining customer interest will continue to combine to eliminate the demand for the larger mills.  I've been caught once in my driving life without adequate power to merge and that was in a rental that I was unfamiliar with.  I don't exactly drive power sleds and apparently few other people see 200+ hp as a necessity.

The trend is pretty clear and by 2020, the days of increasing power may well be behind us.

Cheers,
John M.

One thing is for sure I am buying my MX-5 before 2018, I do not want a backup camera on a little Miata, I want that thing as basic as possible...have to admit, I do like the power hardtop...

[Jaeger]

Reminds me of when the Mazda 6 came out and some writers were complaining that the V6 had "only" ~220 hp. Meanwhile, 240 hp family sedans had only really existed once the '02 Altima which came out less than two years before the 6

I'm not sure anyone has advanced the proposition that more power is essential or necessary for safe motoring. Merely that it is desirable by a segment of buyers in the mid size class. Not hard to understand, IMO, given that today's midsized cars more closely resemble their full size counterparts of not too long ago.

For those who like to move at a leisurely pace, the current motor is entirely adequate. But you can forget about zoom, much less zoom-zoom. If brisk acceleration is something you enjoy, you will not be shopping the 6. I shudder to think how this thing would (or wouldn't) run with a full loaf of passengers and luggage. You don't have to be a horsepower 'nut' to see where this mill could come up wanting.

[dkaz]

The zoom zoom philosophy is not really about being fast at a green light, but being fast everywhere. Not having to slow down on that tight turn for example.