Topic: Comparison Test: 2014 Mid-Size Sedans

[stargazer68]

Honestly, what is a manual shift Mazda 6 sedan doing in this review. 

So the Fusion won fair and square.  However, turbos have an expiry date.  With sport/performance cars turbo or related turbo system failure is accepted as just the price of admission.  Ford is doing well with this turbo strategy now.  But long term it will hurt their brand reliability because ppl who don't understand the nature of turbos systems won't be expecting to pay the related repair costs.

The Camry is an old unit, but still soldiers on.  That is the Toyota way.  In 10 years that Camry as tested will still be something ppl can use for another 5 years without drivetrain issues $$$$.  That V6 and automatic may be ancient, but it sure does deliver.

However, the interior pretty well sucks and the lack of climate control in the SE model, STILL, defies logic.  Will things of this nature change on the new model?  Has to.

Do you remember Lee Iacocca selling Chrysler products in the '80s?  The spiel was that, with a turbo 4, you would get great fuel economy with the power available to rival a V-8!  Needless to say, the cars didn't deliver.

Although turbo technology has improved, the owner still has to be diligent with maintenance, else costly repairs and bad feelings.

Honda, the largest manufacturer of ICE engines on the planet (think of mowers, generators, etc., etc.) knows how to build a four or six; Toyota's build philosophy helps them to produce engines that keep on keeping on.  I can't wait to see how Ford cars hold up.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

You can't compare manufacturing tolerances of today with the 1980s, or the engineering or the lubricants.

The Euros and Japanese have had small turbo engines for their domestic markets since the 1980s, even though they disappeared from North America. There have been huge improvements in the intervening years. Ford is just leveraging that experience.

[mixmanmash]

You can't compare manufacturing tolerances of today with the 1980s, or the engineering or the lubricants.

The Euros and Japanese have had small turbo engines for their domestic markets since the 1980s, even though they disappeared from North America. There have been huge improvements in the intervening years. Ford is just leveraging that experience.

Exactly.

Turbos aren't what they were 30 years ago...

[sailor723]

^ But there is one fact that is irrefutable.

 A naturally aspirated engine will never have a turbo repair bill.

[mixmanmash]

^ But there is one fact that is irrefutable.

 A naturally aspirated engine will never have a turbo repair bill.

Lol.  Agreed. 

[PJ]

Honestly, what is a manual shift Mazda 6 sedan doing in this review. 

So the Fusion won fair and square.  However, turbos have an expiry date.  With sport/performance cars turbo or related turbo system failure is accepted as just the price of admission.  Ford is doing well with this turbo strategy now.  But long term it will hurt their brand reliability because ppl who don't understand the nature of turbos systems won't be expecting to pay the related repair costs.

The Camry is an old unit, but still soldiers on.  That is the Toyota way.  In 10 years that Camry as tested will still be something ppl can use for another 5 years without drivetrain issues $$$$.  That V6 and automatic may be ancient, but it sure does deliver.

However, the interior pretty well sucks and the lack of climate control in the SE model, STILL, defies logic.  Will things of this nature change on the new model?  Has to.

Do you remember Lee Iacocca selling Chrysler products in the '80s?  The spiel was that, with a turbo 4, you would get great fuel economy with the power available to rival a V-8!  Needless to say, the cars didn't deliver.

Although turbo technology has improved, the owner still has to be diligent with maintenance, else costly repairs and bad feelings.

Honda, the largest manufacturer of ICE engines on the planet (think of mowers, generators, etc., etc.) knows how to build a four or six; Toyota's build philosophy helps them to produce engines that keep on keeping on.  I can't wait to see how Ford cars hold up.

I think they did deliver.  My dad bought a 1986 LeBaron GTS turbo with a 5 speed back in the day.  If you kept it below 2500 rpm like my dad did you could get get 40 mpg like he did.  Drive it like I did and it would really move but only got 25 mpg. 

The advantage they had is the LeBaron only weighed 2700 lbs and with a big 2.2 it was easy to drive around out of the boost.  The cars only real downfall is it was crude even by 80's standards

While materials and lubes are much better now turbos run at much higher boost and and speeds and they do it most of the time. 

I suspect we'll see a lot of turbo failures in the 5-7 year range. 

[dirtyjeffer]

I suspect we'll see a lot of turbo failures in the 5-7 year range.

i don't...provided they aren't abused...i am a little unsure about the 3.5 EB V6 in the F-150 though...not for the casual driver (who seems to be MOST pick up truck buyers), but for the actual "work truck guy" who really puts demands on the vehicle.

[mixmanmash]

I suspect we'll see a lot of turbo failures in the 5-7 year range.

i don't...provided they aren't abused...i am a little unsure about the 3.5 EB V6 in the F-150 though...not for the casual driver (who seems to be MOST pick up truck buyers), but for the actual "work truck guy" who really puts demands on the vehicle.

I don't suspect to see a lot of failures even on the EB F150.  Unless you are going uphill and carrying an insane load forcing the engine to be continually at boost.  And even then, I doubt it.  IIRC Ford ran an F150 around the track pulling a loaded trailer that was pretty close to the towing limit as fast as they could, only stopping for driver changes, tire changes and fuel fill up for 24 hours.  The turbo didn't self destruct.  Heck, they even pulled this engine and ran it in the Baja races and it took the abuse...  And that was all after running crazy amounts of time on an engine dyno...  I doubt any user will put that kind of abuse on an engine in the lifetime of the truck.

[JacobBlack]

Honestly, what is a manual shift Mazda 6 sedan doing in this review. 

Um,  because it's a mid-size sedan that fits squarely inside the price bracket of the other cars here?

[JohnM]

I'm going to be a car buying assistant for a friend of the family if the snow drifts ever drop below eye level.

The one car which I feel might work best for her is the Accord.  No one is going to criticize the Accord as a great all-round car but for her (and many people) it appears to have one towering strength and that is visibility.

Now I haven't driven one yet, but from sitting in the dealer showroom and looking at them on the road and in parking lots, it seems to me they have better sight lines than just about anything out there.

Over the last 30 years, cars have improved in almost every imaginable way but the ability to actually see out of them and keep track of what is around you has been reduced substantially.  Since this is the last car she will probably ever buy, I think visibility is a a huge safety / comfort / confidence factor.

What else does well in this regard in the compact to midsize market?

Cheers,
John M.

[PJ]

Honestly, what is a manual shift Mazda 6 sedan doing in this review. 

Um,  because it's a mid-size sedan that fits squarely inside the price bracket of the other cars here?

Also because people seem to need to be reminded that manuals are still available and are better then automatics. 

[Solstice2006]

Honestly, what is a manual shift Mazda 6 sedan doing in this review. 

Um,  because it's a mid-size sedan that fits squarely inside the price bracket of the other cars here?

Also because people seem to need to be reminded that manuals are still available and are better then automatics.

And because it's the Mazda way.....

[Blueprint]

What else does well in this regard in the compact to midsize market?

Cheers,
John M.

Visibility, a rare quality these days, gets bonus points from me in comparos.

Doing well on that front based on my recent drives:

- Subaru Impreza sedan (in a class of its own), Legacy and Forester;
- Honda Civic sedan (bonus points with Touring - has LaneWatch);
- Chevy Cruze;
- VW Jetta & Passat;
- Mitsubishi Lancer;
- Ford Focus sedan;
- new Corolla;
- Accord Touring (LaneWatch = best safety gizmo of the decade).

And in the "feels like parallel parking a submarine" corner:

Mazda3, Mazda6, anything Korean.

[ArticSteve]

Honestly, what is a manual shift Mazda 6 sedan doing in this review. 

Um,  because it's a mid-size sedan that fits squarely inside the price bracket of the other cars here?

It needed to be an auto to qualify.  The driving experience is totally altered with the manual.  Ask those same testers what rating they would give the Mazda manual shift after crawling across Toronto on the 401 for 2 hours. 

[Solstice2006]

Honestly, what is a manual shift Mazda 6 sedan doing in this review. 

Um,  because it's a mid-size sedan that fits squarely inside the price bracket of the other cars here?

It needed to be an auto to qualify.  The driving experience is totally altered with the manual.  Ask those same testers what rating they would give the Mazda manual shift after crawling across Toronto on the 401 for 2 hours.

Says who?  Maybe the Camry/Accord/Altima needed to have a 4 cylinder to qualify... maybe the test should have been if you get over 10L/100km you don't make it...  It wouldn't have made much difference anyway.  The fuel economy numbers would have been even better.  It's cool that V6 are still offered in midsize sedans, it's also cool that manuals are still offered... So they decided to take one of the few cars that offers a manual...

[ArticSteve]

I'm no gearhead, but I'd say that any turbo offered with a factory warranty will likely outlast the projected (15yr) life of a vehicle.  Past 15 years, the cost of a turbo would be more than the value of the car (in these, at least - we're not talking about $$$,$$$ supercars).

That makes absolutely no sense.  15 years 

Listen boys and girls, it's not specifically the TURBO.  It's all that friggin piping that cracks and generally wears out due to sub zero temps, road salt and the big one ..... VIBRATION.  Oil leaks, antifreeze leaks, sensor failures all repaired by one off parts that are nasty expensive.   Gear heads and performance ppl expect it, but mom and dad trying to keep their heads above water will freak and that will be the end of it.

[PJ]

Honestly, what is a manual shift Mazda 6 sedan doing in this review. 

Um,  because it's a mid-size sedan that fits squarely inside the price bracket of the other cars here?

It needed to be an auto to qualify.  The driving experience is totally altered with the manual.  Ask those same testers what rating they would give the Mazda manual shift after crawling across Toronto on the 401 for 2 hours.

If that was the test it would have been a tie between the Prius and the GO train.  Luckily most of us don't spend two hours a day on the 401 so it does qualify.   

[Blueprint]

Having driven all of these in a comparo last year:

Is it just me, or the Malibu has a full-size nose, a full-size behind and a compact cabin? The only other sedan that is similarly fun-house mirrored is the Fisker Karma.

Still find the Optima so damn sexy. Still  for missing out on buying a new 2013 manual LX for 17,500$ all in but tax (they ran out of cars). It does drive like a big compact on the NVH front, but at that price it was a no-brainer.

Drove the Altima 2.5SL, and yup, it's a floater. In white over tan interior, it's the snowbird's dream ... but not mine.

Camry SE V6 = not built for what passes for pavement in QC. Shocks and springs by Lafarge.

Drove the 4 cyl. Accord Touring. Just about perfect in everything, except for the high-tech radio that sounds like a tin can. Who tunes these things at Honda ?!?

Fusion SE : drove a rental-grade unit with the 1.6EB. Wobbly suspension, engine ran out of breath at highway speeds, trunk lid misaligned on the press car, base radio so beige after you've tried the Sony unit in Titaniums.

Mazda6: great back road dancer, more than decent slushbox, not much room inside, mother-of-all rear-view mirror blocks view of traffic signs and signals, see parallel parking a submarine comment above. Great to party with, but ...

[ArticSteve]

If that was the test it would have been a tie between the Prius and the GO train.  Luckily most of us don't spend two hours a day on the 401 so it does qualify.   

The vast majority of North American drivers spend their time locked in traffic.  Few ppl in this segment purchase a manual.   The Mazda should have been in automatic, obviously.  Otherwise, nice read and IMO, fair.

[Fobroader]

If that was the test it would have been a tie between the Prius and the GO train.  Luckily most of us don't spend two hours a day on the 401 so it does qualify.   

The vast majority of North American drivers spend their time locked in traffic.  Few ppl in this segment purchase a manual.   The Mazda should have been in automatic, obviously.  Otherwise, nice read and IMO, fair.

Yeah, but "most" dont waste 4 hours a day stuck in traffic......