Topic: Interview: John Krsteski, Hyundai Genesis Chief Designer

[Autos_Editor]

Hyundai Genesis designer John Krsteski explains why the Korean make doesn't need a sub-brand.

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[JohnM]

Interesting interview and the questions were very good.  However, the answers were strictly corporate talking points.  If Stephen Harper were an automotive designer, these are the answers he would give.

Krsteski did not expound on any points or open up and run with any theme.  Just short generalities as though he was trying to produce 8 second soundbites for a tv broadcast as opposed to indepth comments for a text based website read by knowledgeable enthusiasts.

Any person from a large corporation who is authorized to speak to the media is now extensively coached and given clear limits on their manner and their commentary.  Too bad - despite the mis-speaks, personal asides and crude manner, you'd get a lot more information from an interview from a car executive 20 years ago.

Cheers,
John M.

[Snowman]

explains why the Korean make doesn't need a sub-brand 

If you keep having to explain why then you have failed already. If an affluent young car buyer is going to part ways with money it will be on an established luxury brand. You can make a $60k car look and feel like a $80k but at then end of the day everyone knows its a $60k car. It may be wrong but it is what it is. I wish them luck.

[mmret]

Were there any things that you had to put aside because of cost efficiency?

Not on this car no. We had a lot of the things we wanted. Like being able to slim up the technology on the car, they gave us the LEDs on the fog lamps and the tail lamps, that jewel-like element in the tail lamp wouldn’t have been able to happen without that.

The rear touchdown point of the back glass, we pushed hard to get that sweet profile and we were able to get that, too

Agree with JohnM above. I don't blame the guy for toeing the party line but perhaps the party could have been a bit more bold.

The question above is really nice. It would be great to have more insight on what exterior/interior design elements / choices really cost, beyond just material cost. What shapes and forms cost money and what ones are cheap?

[Patrick_D1]

Were there any things that you had to put aside because of cost efficiency?

Not on this car no. We had a lot of the things we wanted. Like being able to slim up the technology on the car, they gave us the LEDs on the fog lamps and the tail lamps, that jewel-like element in the tail lamp wouldn’t have been able to happen without that.

The rear touchdown point of the back glass, we pushed hard to get that sweet profile and we were able to get that, too

Agree with JohnM above. I don't blame the guy for toeing the party line but perhaps the party could have been a bit more bold.

The question above is really nice. It would be great to have more insight on what exterior/interior design elements / choices really cost, beyond just material cost. What shapes and forms cost money and what ones are cheap?

I can't imagine any manufacturer divulging their cost to execute given design elements, as this is a major bit of competitive information.

As you'd expect, newer technologies are more expensive than their older-tech counter parts. John's point about going to full LED/HID exterior lighting (including fog and tail lamps) means just that; the company used the newest technologies available to achieve the forms the designers of the car intended. Same with shifting the entire canopy of the car back and lengthening the dash-to-axle ratio versus the old car. A wholesale re-engineering of this type requires time and investment, but if you ask me, it's worth it to achieve the long hood and swept back stance.

[Northernridge]

That was interesting, nice job. You have an emerging series going here, keep it up. I don't disagree with the comments above about Krsteski using restraint in some of his answers but I don't hold it against him either. Notice his answers are best when directly talking about the design in terms of aesthetics and experience? That's how designers are, they want to talk about design and for these interviews to work, that's where the conversation has to go. I doubt many designers would be willing comment very far (and none off script) talking about anything business oriented, that would take a different type of executive and there you'd have to probe aggressively...and they'd still be selective.

The style of the article is good for autos.ca in terms of length and depth. This may not be the article for Auto Design Weekly where there might need to be more probing and in-depth responses,  insider jargon, etc. But I think the article is bang on for this website.

The interview was well executed, I enjoyed the article. Well done.

[gord_boyd]

I would have expected, as an A7 Owner, more ex-Audi influence of top guy but apparently Not.

I believe they will be quite successful, even without separation for Genesis from Hyundai Dealerships.
I do not see repeating this decision as a 'fail' because the halo effect on Hyundai Dealerships is also a benefit and the availability of Service broadly will be much better than Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Infinity in huge parts
of Canada--a factor that I'm sure went into decision.  I applaud them.  I think efficiencies also there.

The "leapfrog" driven focus of this company is to be admired. 

(I also am now planning attending 2018 Korean Olympic Winter Games and so maybe wanting there successes to continue to surprise.)

[bd2]

explains why the Korean make doesn't need a sub-brand 

If you keep having to explain why then you have failed already. If an affluent young car buyer is going to part ways with money it will be on an established luxury brand. You can make a $60k car look and feel like a $80k but at then end of the day everyone knows its a $60k car. It may be wrong but it is what it is. I wish them luck.

Based on sales, it's the Lexus GS and Infiniti M which are failures.

2013 sales

Genesis - 1,062
M - 249
GS - 642

I suspect with the addition of AWD, the sales discrepancy will only increase.

[rrocket]

explains why the Korean make doesn't need a sub-brand 

If you keep having to explain why then you have failed already. If an affluent young car buyer is going to part ways with money it will be on an established luxury brand. You can make a $60k car look and feel like a $80k but at then end of the day everyone knows its a $60k car. It may be wrong but it is what it is. I wish them luck.

Based on sales, it's the Lexus GS and Infiniti M which are failures.

2013 sales

Genesis - 1,062
M - 249
GS - 642

I suspect with the addition of AWD, the sales discrepancy will only increase.

I guess the 911, Cayman and Boxster are also a failures...the 911 only did 661.  And the Boxster and Cayman combined did 640.   

BTW...the GS isn't considered competition for the Genesis per good car bad car.  The Genesis competes with the Avalon, Chrysler 300, etc..

In Canada, base price of GS is ~$52,000  Base price of a Genesis is $40,000   Two different price segments.

[JacobBlack]

The interview was well executed, I enjoyed the article. Well done.

Thanks mate, for the record, you'll recognise some of the lines of questioning from your suggestions in another thread - see, we listen!

[bd2]

explains why the Korean make doesn't need a sub-brand 

If you keep having to explain why then you have failed already. If an affluent young car buyer is going to part ways with money it will be on an established luxury brand. You can make a $60k car look and feel like a $80k but at then end of the day everyone knows its a $60k car. It may be wrong but it is what it is. I wish them luck.

Based on sales, it's the Lexus GS and Infiniti M which are failures.

2013 sales

Genesis - 1,062
M - 249
GS - 642

I suspect with the addition of AWD, the sales discrepancy will only increase.

I guess the 911, Cayman and Boxster are also a failures...the 911 only did 661.  And the Boxster and Cayman combined did 640.   

BTW...the GS isn't considered competition for the Genesis per good car bad car.  The Genesis competes with the Avalon, Chrysler 300, etc..

In Canada, base price of GS is ~$52,000  Base price of a Genesis is $40,000   Two different price segments.

The Genesis is a direct competitor to the GS and M, a RWD midsize luxury sedan.

The Avalon is a full-size FWD sedan and Hyundai has the Azera that competes against it (except not in the Canadian market, altho Kia has the Cadenza).

And I don't think the guy who runs goodcarbadcar is exactly an authority on these matters.

[Northernridge]

The interview was well executed, I enjoyed the article. Well done.

Thanks mate, for the record, you'll recognise some of the lines of questioning from your suggestions in another thread - see, we listen!

I did notice that yes, thank you.

[rrocket]

And I don't think the guy who runs goodcarbadcar is exactly an authority on these matters.

And you are?  And Hyundai's viewpoint is wishful thinking.


The fact is, Lexus is a luxury car brand....Hyundai is not.  The Lexus has a much higher MSRP.  Is it terribly shocking to think that a budget car brand that sells a car for 25% less than a true luxury brand might sell more in a given year?

I'm not shocked....and a Hyundai will never be a Lexus.

[bd2]

And I don't think the guy who runs goodcarbadcar is exactly an authority on these matters.

And you are?  And Hyundai's viewpoint is wishful thinking.


The fact is, Lexus is a luxury car brand....Hyundai is not.  The Lexus has a much higher MSRP.  Is it terribly shocking to think that a budget car brand that sells a car for 25% less than a true luxury brand might sell more in a given year?

I'm not shocked....and a Hyundai will never be a Lexus.

Don't get so mixed up on what is essentially a branding/sales channel exercise - which is what Lexus is for Toyota (every Lexus is a Toyota, no matter what badge it carries).

Hyundai is a full-line auto-maker, much like Toyota and Nissan in Japan and MB in Europe.

Until the launch of the LS460, all Lexus models were badged Toyotas in Japan and until recently, the Lexus RX was still sold in Japan as the Toyota Harrier.

To think that the LS430 was more luxurious than a Toyota Celsior when they are the exact same model is frankly, ludicrous.

And in addition, despite later launching the Lexus brand in Japan, Toyota still has a separate luxury sedan lineup with the Crown Series (topped by the Crown Majesta which Toyota also sees as a competitor to the S Class, 7 Series, etc.) and then there is the Toyota Century which is significantly more luxurious than the LS460.

Nissan sells the M/Q70 and the G/Q50 in Japan as...   Nissans - are you going to argue that they are not luxury?

Furthermore, the M/Q70 is also sold in Japan as a rebadged Mitsubishi - are you going to argue that it is not a luxury sedan?

Also, don't be fooled by badges.

You really think the ILX (much less the CSX which was really no different from a Civic) is more of a luxury sedan than the Genesis simply b/c it has a luxury badge (the ILX would barely qualify as an entry-level luxury sedan, much less luxury simply based on what it is)?

The Acura TLX is also sold in Europe as the Honda Accord - so is it luxury in NA but not luxury in Europe?

The NSX was also sold as a Honda in Japan, so I guess it means that the NSX isn't luxury (a near exotic)?

Same goes for the Corvette which is sold as a Chevy or the GT-R which is sold as a Nissan (the GT-R is significantly pricier than any current Infiniti).

And do you really think the CT (a tarted up Corolla/Auris with a hybrid powertrain) and the ES and RX (tarted up Camry and Highlander) are more luxurious than the Genesis (esp. the new one), much less the departed HS (a tarted up Prius).

Heck, the Toyota Land Cruiser is more expensive than anything in the Lexus lineup save the LS460.

And Hyundai doesn't want to be Lexus, struggling to sell its RWD sedans while selling gobs of tarted up Camrys and Highlanders (and soon to be joined by a tarted up RAV-4).

[Northernridge]

On the other hand if the market thinks a given product is a luxury brand, then it is...or isn't as the case may be. Holds true at the individual consumer level too. Perception is reality and all that.

A rose by any other name would not smell as sweet.

[bd2]

I don't think anyone is arguing that Hyundai is a luxury brand, just that the Genesis and Equus are luxury sedans.

The Equus has been included in luxury flagship comparisons by the likes of auto publications like Motor Trend and Car & Driver.

That's something we won't see with the Acura RLX.

And despite being sold under a non-luxury nameplate, the Equus is at a higher pricepoint than the RLX and the new Genesis is at a higher pricepoint than the TL (and presumably the TLX).

[mmret]

I guess the 911, Cayman and Boxster are also a failures...the 911 only did 661.  And the Boxster and Cayman combined did 640.   

BTW...the GS isn't considered competition for the Genesis per good car bad car.  The Genesis competes with the Avalon, Chrysler 300, etc..

In Canada, base price of GS is ~$52,000  Base price of a Genesis is $40,000   Two different price segments.

I find it funny that your second/third points touch on the "different segments" issue while your first point ignores it completely.

[bd2]

it's an interesting argument. i don't think it is as easy as saying, "well if you don't have a separate luxury dealership, you are not worthy".  bmw, mercedes, audi, vw, jag etc were always just been who they were right from the get go.  they never "manufactured" a brand or nameplate to develop upmarket cars like the japanese did for NA.  it always seemed a little pretentious in my view to have just created name out of thin air just to establish an upmarket brand.  in europe, all of these luxury brands sell very cheap cars alongside cars that cost multiples of their cheaper brethren. acura and infiniti didn't actually exist for the longest time in japan. (not sure about lexus)  the nsx was a honda.  i don't think the guys buying nsx's had an issue with buying them because it shared a dealership and logo with a FIT.

Acura and Infiniti still don't exist in Japan and Lexus was only launched in Japan with the LS460 (the LS400 and LS430 were sold as the Toyota Celsior).

And as you had pointed out, the original Mercedes A and B Classes were econoboxes and in no way luxury cars - and you'll find in Europe, not only stripper E Class sedans serving as an eponymous taxi, but tr-star badged commercial vans and trucks, including sanitation trucks (nothing like the stench of garbage to denote luxury).

Mercedes is a full-line automaker and has a different image in Europe as they do in the US.

In fact, Mercedes tries to cultivate a different image in the US even from Canada which is why the B Class was offered in Canada and not the US (same reason why Acura offered the JDM Civic as the CSX in Canada and not the US).

where i think hyundai is missing the mark is in the size of the genesis sedan.  i'm not sure what they mean by "younger" but younger affluent buyers imo won't be wanting to buy a huge car like the genesis.  even jag has realized that the sweet spot in the luxury sport sedan market is the 3 series. (with smaller engines)  enter the up and coming jag XS.  if hyundai wants to cut the grass of the big boys they need to consider a baby genesis sedan as well.

Hyundai has a smaller RWD sedan in development and should be ready in about 1.5-2 years and they will also add a new coupe (which will be going upmarket and replace the Genesis coupe) which will be paired with the sedan.

Kia will be adding a RWD sedan underneath the K900 based on the GT concept which will slot between the compact  Hyundai RWD sedan and the Genesis in size (just as the K900 slots between the Genesis and Equus in size).

[bd2]

I guess the 911, Cayman and Boxster are also a failures...the 911 only did 661.  And the Boxster and Cayman combined did 640.   

BTW...the GS isn't considered competition for the Genesis per good car bad car.  The Genesis competes with the Avalon, Chrysler 300, etc..

In Canada, base price of GS is ~$52,000  Base price of a Genesis is $40,000   Two different price segments.

I find it funny that your second/third points touch on the "different segments" issue while your first point ignores it completely.

Also pretty funny comparing sales of basically 2-seater coupes which are low to that of midsize luxury sedans which are considerably higher (for instance, the E Class does around 3,500-4k a year in sales; I suppose Lexus doing a fraction of that in sales with the GS is supposed to be impressive).

Furthermore, I suppose he wants Hyundai to charge for things that they don't offer with the Genesis, a luxury badge and dealer network.

Not having those things works against the Genesis in certain respects, but being able to offer a lower price makes up for that.

Nonetheless, even w/o a luxury badge/dealership, the base price of the new Genesis is going to start at around $45k which is not that far off the base price for the GS which starts at $47.7k and not $52k as claimed).

In addition, the top trim Genesis will be priced higher than the GS - at $62k versus $55.5k for the GS (not Hyundai's fault that Toyota canceled the V8 GS due to low sales, but then again, Toyota almost canceled the GS entirely).

[Snowman]

Just checking but this is North America so different perceptions are at work here. Regardless if its right or wrong, it is what it is.