Topic: GM Pickups To Also Use Aluminum By 2018

[Autos_Editor]

Four years behind their Dearborn rival, General Motors sees the benefits of lightweight trucks

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[safristi]

"Aluminum" has Ford discovered a NEW METAL.......................Periodically speaking spell check
broken??

[mixmanmash]

"Aluminum" has Ford discovered a NEW METAL.......................Periodically speaking spell check
broken??

British English would have it spelled as aluminium, correct?  North American English has it spelled as aluminum.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminium#Etymology

[X-Traction]

In the meantime, I saw a tv ad for new GM pickups the other day, and the ad made a big deal of saying that the trucks had STEEL beds.  Prior to Ford's move, there was no reason to mention what the bed was made of.  Nothing like shameless hypocrisy.

[ArticSteve]

I saw a tv ad for new GM pickups the other day, and the ad made a big deal of saying that the trucks had STEEL beds.

Not just STEEL .... ROLLED steel just like one might find in a SUBMARIME.   

[Mozeby]

I believe the new 2015 full size GM utes (Tahoe, Suburban etc.) are using aluminum in their roofs and hoods.  I think Ford is going overboard.  What's it gonna cost in insurance if your vehicle now costs double to triple in repairs for an accident.

[toolatecrew]

I believe the new 2015 full size GM utes (Tahoe, Suburban etc.) are using aluminum in their roofs and hoods.  I think Ford is going overboard.  What's it gonna cost in insurance if your vehicle now costs double to triple in repairs for an accident.

This is a critical point and very overlooked. These trucks are very high volume and the costs of aluminum reach far beyond "Hey the hood is now 1000 vs 500. Aluminum repair needs special equipment as well as very special training. Your average independent body shop can't afford either so don't think you can just take your new truck anywhere you want.
Yes the parts will cost more but it will also be quite some time before aftermarket aluminum parts are available so more expensive OEM is the only choice.Bad for consumer and insurance but great for Gm.
Its going to be years before any amount of Salvage/used parts hit the market either.

Yes they save weight but its also a very clever way for the OEMs to corner the market on collision repair and body panels on the biggest volume vehicles in NA.

[tpl]

I believe the new 2015 full size GM utes (Tahoe, Suburban etc.) are using aluminum in their roofs and hoods.  I think Ford is going overboard.  What's it gonna cost in insurance if your vehicle now costs double to triple in repairs for an accident.

This is a critical point and very overlooked. These trucks are very high volume and the costs of aluminum reach far beyond "Hey the hood is now 1000 vs 500. Aluminum repair needs special equipment as well as very special training. Your average independent body shop can't afford either so don't think you can just take your new truck anywhere you want.
Yes the parts will cost more but it will also be quite some time before aftermarket aluminum parts are available so more expensive OEM is the only choice.Bad for consumer and insurance but great for Gm.
Its going to be years before any amount of Salvage/used parts hit the market either.

Yes they save weight but its also a very clever way for the OEMs to corner the market on collision repair and body panels on the biggest volume vehicles in NA.

Several outcomes I think.
1. Popular feeling will cause the USA to ease the economy requirements for trucks (2016 and then 2025) as this is undoubtedly why this is being done.
2. People will buy new 2014 trucks while they are still steel which will then lessen sales of the new ones which may cause GM and Ford to go back to steel
3. Sensible people may just stop buying the behemoths in the first place.
4. Least likely. People who buy the aluminium bodied trucks will drive so as to not crash them. 

[SKYMTL]

I saw a tv ad for new GM pickups the other day, and the ad made a big deal of saying that the trucks had STEEL beds.

Not just STEEL .... ROLLED steel just like one might find in a SUBMARIME.   

I got a kick out of that "because SUBMARINE!" commercial too.  If that's the best they've got...... 

[aquadorhj]

wouldn't composite body panels make more sense then?  as long as it's not structural.

there' 3D printers around, any auto body shop can buy them.

you can make a mold on the fly and create composite body panels as replacements for any body panel that's not structural.

[Fobroader]

With the amount of actual work trucks around here that have a damaged panel here and there I could see large fleet customers really starting to dislike all this aluminum. Tailgates are already a really hot commodity around here....I imagine when they go up in price by 2, 3 or 4X that the crackheads will really start targeting them. I with aqua...I think composites and good old fashioned steel are a better combo....all submarine comparisons aside.

[Northernridge]

Are there additional disadvantages to aluminum beyond the potential impact on insurance premiums?

As far as advertising goes, it's just advertising. How is it (the submarine ad) any sillier than Toyota driving a Tundra up a flaming ramp?

[Fobroader]

Are there additional disadvantages to aluminum beyond the potential impact on insurance premiums?

As far as advertising goes, it's just advertising. How is it (the submarine ad) any sillier than Toyota driving a Tundra up a flaming ramp?

It will be less resistant to bending, bodyshops are going to have to relearn their trade, cant easily do a patch panel, aluminum welding is a lot tougher than metal.

[SaskSpecV]

As far as advertising goes, it's just advertising. How is it (the submarine ad) any sillier than Toyota driving a Tundra up a flaming ramp?

Not really any different (or the Frontier ad where it is climbing the sand dune...)

But my issue with this GM ad: it is preaching the benefit of one particular feature (in this case, steel bed).  Anyone who is paying attention to the truck market knows that Ford is moving to aluminum, so this is an (indirect) swipe at Ford.  But then the next month, GM quietly admits that it, too, will be going aluminum-intensive on their next redesign.  So what's really the benefit of that rolled steel again??  It's just hypocritical is all.

It's like the Silverado ad from a few years ago where Howie Long makes fun of the guy using the "man step" in his F150 (when that feature first came out on the F150).  Then next redesign - GM has its own version of the man-step!  I just find it distasteful that GM takes these shots at competitors in their ads, knowing full well they will be copying them on their next model.  Is it any worse than Ford's almost-but-not-quite-outright lying about their towing capacity in previous years? No...like you say, it's just advertising.  But if the idea is to improve my perception of the brand, to me these truck ads fail.

Still, the worst offender to me was Hyundai's "save the asterisk" ad campaign.  Real classy - take shots at your competitors for their fuel economy advertising....then a couple months later mail out a bunch of cheques to consumers because your engineers couldn't figure out how to properly apply/interpret the fuel economy testing standards.  Hyundai should be thankful Ford/Honda/GM didn't come up with their own advertising campaign about that little SNAFU!

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The new F-150 uses a 6000 Series aluminum alloy that’s commonly employed in aerospace and military designs. The alloy offers a yield strength of about 30 ksi, which rises to about 45 ksi when the material is heat-treated. Approximately 80 percent of the aluminum is 6000 Series and the remaining 20 percent is a 5000 Series, which has a lower yield strength. "Between the alloys and the tempering, our door panels and box panels are more dent- and ding-resistant than they would have been with steel,” Reyes said.

Ford also uses a high-strength, dual-phase steel alloy for about 80 percent of the truck’s frame. The high-strength steel, which has a yield strength of more than 70 ksi, enabled Ford engineers to cut about 60 lb from the frame. Together, the aluminum alloys and the high-strength steel combined to eliminate about 700 lb from the overall vehicle weight. An F-150 4 x 4 crew cab, for example, drops from about 5,500 lb to about 4,800 lb.

The lower mass also makes the use of aluminum more economically feasible, Reyes told us. Although aluminum and high-strength steels are more costly per pound than mild steels, the 700-lb difference helps minimize any additional costs. The key, however, was the availability of the CAE tools, Reyes said. “In the past, we just didn’t have the sophisticated computer models for aluminum that we had for steel,” Reyes told us. “Now that we have them, we can be efficient in our timing.”

http://www.designnews.com/document.asp?doc_id=271215&dfpPParams=ind_186,industry_auto,industry_aero,industry_gov,aid_271215&dfpLayout=article

http://www.superiorextrusion.com/AluminumAlloyStrengths.pdf

These are high strength aluminum alloys, not pop cans.

It's still going to require some specialization to work with the panels, so there is a pretty large risk if it doesn't pan out. Ford and GM are gambling that the risk is outweighed by the returns. It's a pretty big gamble.

[Northernridge]

Are there additional disadvantages to aluminum beyond the potential impact on insurance premiums?

As far as advertising goes, it's just advertising. How is it (the submarine ad) any sillier than Toyota driving a Tundra up a flaming ramp?

It will be less resistant to bending, bodyshops are going to have to relearn their trade, cant easily do a patch panel, aluminum welding is a lot tougher than metal.

I'll give you that one (if it's true...see Sir O's post). As for difficulty repairing, who cares? That's the body shop's problem not mine – unless it results in higher insurance premiums. I also wonder if the aluminum will bump up the selling price.

[Fobroader]

Are there additional disadvantages to aluminum beyond the potential impact on insurance premiums?

As far as advertising goes, it's just advertising. How is it (the submarine ad) any sillier than Toyota driving a Tundra up a flaming ramp?

It will be less resistant to bending, bodyshops are going to have to relearn their trade, cant easily do a patch panel, aluminum welding is a lot tougher than metal.

I'll give you that one (if it's true...see Sir O's post). As for difficulty repairing, who cares? That's the body shop's problem not mine – unless it results in higher insurance premiums. I also wonder if the aluminum will bump up the selling price.

The material is more expensive to purchase and its harder to fix, I see an increase in selling cost and insurance rates.

[Northernridge]

As far as advertising goes, it's just advertising. How is it (the submarine ad) any sillier than Toyota driving a Tundra up a flaming ramp?

Not really any different (or the Frontier ad where it is climbing the sand dune...)

But my issue with this GM ad: it is preaching the benefit of one particular feature (in this case, steel bed).  Anyone who is paying attention to the truck market knows that Ford is moving to aluminum, so this is an (indirect) swipe at Ford.  But then the next month, GM quietly admits that it, too, will be going aluminum-intensive on their next redesign.  So what's really the benefit of that rolled steel again??  It's just hypocritical is all.

It's like the Silverado ad from a few years ago where Howie Long makes fun of the guy using the "man step" in his F150 (when that feature first came out on the F150).  Then next redesign - GM has its own version of the man-step!  I just find it distasteful that GM takes these shots at competitors in their ads, knowing full well they will be copying them on their next model.  Is it any worse than Ford's almost-but-not-quite-outright lying about their towing capacity in previous years? No...like you say, it's just advertising.  But if the idea is to improve my perception of the brand, to me these truck ads fail.

Still, the worst offender to me was Hyundai's "save the asterisk" ad campaign.  Real classy - take shots at your competitors for their fuel economy advertising....then a couple months later mail out a bunch of cheques to consumers because your engineers couldn't figure out how to properly apply/interpret the fuel economy testing standards.  Hyundai should be thankful Ford/Honda/GM didn't come up with their own advertising campaign about that little SNAFU!

I actually think the submarine ad is a good one...even with the hypocrisy. If I'm working for GM I'd think like this...

Holly cow Ford is beating us to the aluminum punch, what are we going to do?
Make one ourselves in case the market likes them
In the meantime, let's fan the flames of doubt by implying steel is stronger and better than aluminum – it's the old, "bash it if you can't match" approach
OK, how can we symbolize the strength of steel? Think, think...Got it! What about a steel submarine smashing up through ice?
Brilliant Mad Man, here's $40 million dollars, you're super awesome. Let's have a drink. (I embellished this part a little)

Oh, what do we do if the market likes aluminum trucks?
Duh, promote it like it's the best thing since sliced bread
Right. How can we symbolize the light weight strength of aluminium...?

[Sir Osis of Liver]

The material is more expensive to purchase and its harder to fix, I see an increase in selling cost and insurance rates.

Most body shops avoid metal work as much as possible and typically use replacement panels when they can. Pickup bodies fit in well with this because other than the cab, the rest of the bodywork is discreet sheet metal pieces. It's still a big question mark though.

Ford is saying that it's true that aluminum is more expensive per kg than steel, but they are using fewer kgs so the overall cost of production isn't much different.

These will be much more corrosion resistant too, a big plus in large chunks of the country where you're much more likely to lose a truck to the rusties than anything else.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

Right. How can we symbolize the light weight strength of aluminium...?

Aircraft!