Author Topic: The best winter vehicle (on road use)  (Read 15547 times)

Offline johngenx

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The best winter vehicle (on road use)
« on: December 06, 2013, 05:02:32 pm »
I read a post in another thread about trucks being superior winter vehicles and it made me wonder about that.  In my observations, there is nothing worse in the winter than a 2WD pick up.  Here's what I think:

(Assuming all equipped with proper winter tires)

Pickups - 4X4 - They're not bad.  Pretty good at getting away from lights or up grades.  I still smoke them easily with the Forester or the Highlander.  If the road gets bendy, then the high center of gravity and poor weight distribution hurts.  Also, many of the 4X4 systems have limited use as they're not deigned for variable road conditions.

SUVs - AWD - Let's think about the Pilot, Highlander, and that crowd here.  AWD systems are all over the map from a lockable slip/grip in the pilot to a full time system in the Highlander (though the 2014- HL's are now slip/grip) and the torque vectoring systems in the MDX and Tribeca and Outback.  Outback?  I'm not sure where that thing fits, so I'll put it here.  One downfall I've found of the Highlander is that it's still pretty top heavy, and the fairy high curb weight contributes to longer braking distances. That said, it's a pretty capable winter vehicle.  The full time AWD adds a lot both in a straight line and in the bends.  My personal opinion is the lower center of gravity Outback with the H-6 and amazing VTD-AWD is one of the best winter vehicles, but the SUV crowd has some strong contenders.  I would take most SUVs ahead of a pick up.

CUVs - AWD - Forester, RAV, CRV, etc, etc.  Again, there are a range of AWD systems here, but generally speaking the CUV crowd (in AWD trim) are pretty capable winter vehicles.  The slip/grip systems are getting more proactive with the RAVs now engaging in some instances without slip being detected (cornering, accelerating, etc)  The CUVs tend to have lighter weights and lower cgs than the SUVs and handle better.  Their shorter wheelbases make them more fun to drive.  That said, highway stability of the SUVs is great.

Cars - AWD - There are a growing number of AWD cars being sold.  Lots of luxury cars are now available with AWD and some family sedans (eg Fusion) as well.  Subaru has  number of cars that are AWD equipped.  The luxury cars tend to have some pretty sophisticated AWD systems and are surprisingly capable in the winter.  They're good handling cars in the dry, and in the snow too.  They tend to have good weight distribution and low cg which means they're great when the road gets bendy.  The only reason I don't own an AWD sedan is the lack of cargo space and the minimal ground clearance which is an issue in some places I frequent.  Cars like the IS350 AWD can be driven surprisingly fast on snow covered roads when equipped with the right tires.

I've driven some of the last three categories that can handily walk away from a 4X4 pick up on a winter road (not off-roading) and without needing the bed of a pick up, no way I'd automatically shop a truck for it's winter ability.  For a pure urban environment, many of the AWD sedans are wickedly capable in the snow, and most of the SUV/CUV group are also superb.  They add cargo capacity and ground clearance (again, generally speaking, there are exceptions)

Offline sailor723

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Re: The best winter vehicle (on road use)
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2013, 05:11:49 pm »
I'd agree with most of your observations. Our 328iXdrive (even with the less than optimal Blizzak LM25 runflats) is pretty capable in the snow. Obviously the lower ground clearance makes it less capable than the ML in unplowed conditions but the lower COG and better handling make it feel more planted and secure when things get slippery.
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Offline Fobroader

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Re: The best winter vehicle (on road use)
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2013, 05:15:06 pm »
If I didnt have/need a 4x4 truck, my winter vehicle of choice would be a Forester, hands down. Put some coilovers on it so you can lower for summer, raise for winter, LSD in the back and away you go. I agree, a truck isnt the best at winter driving for all the reasons you gave....but Id much rather have 4x4 than a slip and grip system.  Also, I dont like the low ground clearance of cars, too much scraping for my liking.
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Offline dkaz

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Re: The best winter vehicle (on road use)
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2013, 05:21:13 pm »
I had to drive to my father-in-law's house in rural Alberta, on a gravel road, in my Mazda 3. I crawled at 15-20km/h, it was painful. Ping, ping, ping ping ping, PING. I'm taking the Sienna next time.

Offline sailor723

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Re: The best winter vehicle (on road use)
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2013, 05:22:25 pm »
If I didnt have/need a 4x4 truck, my winter vehicle of choice would be a Forester, hands down. Put some coilovers on it so you can lower for summer, raise for winter, LSD in the back and away you go. I agree, a truck isnt the best at winter driving for all the reasons you gave....but Id much rather have 4x4 than a slip and grip system.  Also, I dont like the low ground clearance of cars, too much scraping for my liking.

Ah but Fobroader, I live in the Maritimes. They plow the roads here.  ;D

Offline Snowman

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Re: The best winter vehicle (on road use)
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2013, 05:25:20 pm »
Greta report John  :thumbup: :thumbup: The best winter vehicles I had was our 2002 Highlander and the 2008 Tribeca. With winter tire there were unstoppable and the traction/stabilizability control in the Tribeca was amazing. The WRX's I had were great as well until you plugged up the grill. I have owned many 4x4 pickups and there were fine at low speeds and in deep snow but on ice I would take a "real" AWD car or SUV/CUV hands down. Im talking about real winter, not whatever they call this down here in the GTA  :P

Offline Fobroader

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Re: The best winter vehicle (on road use)
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2013, 05:25:58 pm »
If I didnt have/need a 4x4 truck, my winter vehicle of choice would be a Forester, hands down. Put some coilovers on it so you can lower for summer, raise for winter, LSD in the back and away you go. I agree, a truck isnt the best at winter driving for all the reasons you gave....but Id much rather have 4x4 than a slip and grip system.  Also, I dont like the low ground clearance of cars, too much scraping for my liking.

Ah but Fobroader, I live in the Maritimes. They plow the roads here.  ;D

Plow....plow...nope, heard the term, havent ever seen one not in captivity  ;D

Offline quadzilla

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Re: The best winter vehicle (on road use)
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2013, 05:40:54 pm »
I'd like to see a report on all the different AWD systems out there. More specifically to how they operate at speed. IE: Do slip/grip system only work up to a specific speed.

Offline Fobroader

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Re: The best winter vehicle (on road use)
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2013, 05:45:25 pm »
I'd like to see a report on all the different AWD systems out there. More specifically to how they operate at speed. IE: Do slip/grip system only work up to a specific speed.

I tried to get an older CR-V out of a snowbank....that slip and grip system was terrible, the rear wheels basically did nothing.

Offline WRX_Pilot

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Re: The best winter vehicle (on road use)
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2013, 06:09:14 pm »
No doubt everyone's seen this video, and I may be biased  ;D (it's the Subaru AWD vs competitors video)

http://youtu.be/ooQRxlChvMw

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Re: The best winter vehicle (on road use)
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2013, 06:35:24 pm »
Our household is well armed for winter. We have the AWD Berlin taxi, the Ridgeline and the Sierra. The Sierra is the best choice for the worst conditions by far with LSD and winter tires, it's a beast. The Ridge is good from normal to bad conditions and has far better chassis balance than the pickup, it just doesn't want to get out of shape. However, the Berlin taxi is the best on road winter vehicle we own. it's not the most capable but the conditions have to be bad enough that you shouldn't really be on the road anyhow before it doesn't work. The AWD, chassis, esp and abs are superb in winter conditions and with winter tires it's excellent. Most winter conditions are fine so the sedan is way better to drive, it's superior in all ice and packed snow conditions. It's also better in snow up to about four inches.

In extreme cold the Sierra makes the best heat, in can overcome any temperature we will get in Manitoba and the E350 manages overall climate and humidity the best…and has heated everything so it wins for comfort. The Honda is ready to give up below minus 30.

Offline johngenx

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Re: The best winter vehicle (on road use)
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2013, 06:47:26 pm »
Our Highlander has the best heater of any vehicle I've owned.  It was -30C this morning and I could easily have rode in a t-shirt.  It can turn the interior into a sauna at any temperature I've encountered.  At -30C you can keep the cabin very warm using setting 2 or 3 on the blower fan.  Setting 4 rarely used.

The Corolla is very good too, but perhaps one notch below the HL.

The Forester's heater is just okay.  Fine to -25 or -30C, but you're on the max blower setting all the time and it's working at full capacity at those temps.

Our later model MBs had good heaters but if you used the max blower setting at very cold temps (-30C or lower) then it would start to drain heat from the engine.  The older MB's had great heaters and sucky AC units.

Offline blotter

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Re: The best winter vehicle (on road use)
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2013, 06:53:05 pm »
awesome thread!

this topic as I look forward to changing vehicles next year is one of the reasons I'm not 100% on a truck.

our all time best winter vehicle so far was a 1999 Subaru Forester.

The RAV did really well too, but the Forester would drive through anything I could put it through.


Offline johngenx

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Re: The best winter vehicle (on road use)
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2013, 06:59:46 pm »
The best winter vehicles I had was our 2002 Highlander and the 2008 Tribeca. With winter tire there were unstoppable and the traction/stabilizability control in the Tribeca was amazing.

I've been very impressed with the full time AWD system in the Highlander.  When you look at the mechanical diagrams, it's actually very similar to the Subaru system other than the engine orientation.  I would like it even better if it had a rear LSD and a less aggressive TRACS system.

The Tribeca has the amazing VTD-AWD system with rear LSD.  Other than the DCCD three-diff rig in the STi, I don't think there's a better AWD system sold.  Acura's SH-AWD and the top line Mitsu sytem are awesome, but the Subaru systems are just incredible.  Subaru also really nailed combining AWD and yaw/traction control.

Offline wing

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Re: The best winter vehicle (on road use)
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2013, 06:59:48 pm »
Regarding heaters I've noticed Toyota and Lexus do a good job.  The LX gets nice an be toasty pretty quick.  My titan was horrible never any heat feet froze all winter, hated it.

The LX is a beast with with her tires can probably climb mountains.  But it is rolly polly.

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Re: The best winter vehicle (on road use)
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2013, 07:18:46 pm »
Regarding heaters I've noticed Toyota and Lexus do a good job.  The LX gets nice an be toasty pretty quick.  My titan was horrible never any heat feet froze all winter, hated it.

The LX is a beast with with her tires can probably climb mountains.  But it is rolly polly.

My Altima was adequate at best. At -25 or below on the highway iced up windows were a problem. The heater in my old truck was basically a mouth of hell, I could fry eggs on the dashboard at any outside temp. The Mitsu is good as well, especially since its got a rear heater.

Offline safristi

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Re: The best winter vehicle (on road use)
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2013, 08:03:31 pm »
My 2014 Subaru Forrester wif Michelin latitude Alpins winters would give anyone on here a run fer their MONEY.....unless ya live in HOKEYVILLE with NO SNOW and a balmy population... :stick: :light: :think: :surrend: :spam: :pimp:
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Re: The best winter vehicle (on road use)
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2013, 08:38:24 pm »
My 2014 Subaru Forrester wif Michelin latitude Alpins winters would give anyone on here a run fer their MONEY.....unless ya live in HOKEYVILLE with NO SNOW and a balmy population... :stick: :light: :think: :surrend: :spam: :pimp:

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Re: The best winter vehicle (on road use)
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2013, 08:46:29 pm »
Other than a bit of winter driving in an 4x4  Iltis, all of my winter driving has been either a RWD or FWD cars.  In normal city driving (we do get a bit snow here sometimes), I have found that winter tires and FWD is good enough. The only time I've ever wished for extra traction is in those really heavy blizzards like when we get about 30cm falling but that does not occur too often.

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Re: The best winter vehicle (on road use)
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2013, 08:52:48 pm »
My 2014 Subaru Forrester wif Michelin latitude Alpins winters would give anyone on here a run fer their MONEY.....unless ya live in HOKEYVILLE with NO SNOW and a balmy population... :stick: :light: :think: :surrend: :spam: :pimp:

Pics or it did not happen  :popo:
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