Topic: AJAC TestFest Category Winners Announced, Mazda Pulls Off Hat Trick

[rrocket]

There's a difference between being light-hearted and snarky mate, no need to get all sullen about it.

[JacobBlack]

Your point is EXTREMELY valid, despite Mr. Black not recognizing it.

Just because it's new, doesn't make it the class leader, and because of that it isn't necessarily worthy of an award.  Just because it's "new" shouldn't be the only consideration for award.

For example, next year there will be no new Mazda6 or Mazda3, yet those cars will still likely be the class leaders.  A vastly inferior car could be released in either class, yet because it's "new" it gets an award.  In that case, these awards offer little to the consumer....but hey the AJAC writers get to go on a junket so I guess that's all that matters....consumer be damned.

Is the award called, "The Best car of all time"? Or is it called, "Best new car"?

[rrocket]

We all know what it's called.  Doesn't mean the test isn't broken, flawed or (as many have pointed out) totally useless and of little value to the consumer.

But AJAC writers are able to get together and have a weekend playing with new cars and yucking it up.  So I guess as long as it works for them, that's all that matters, right?

[JacobBlack]

We all know what it's called.  Doesn't mean the test isn't broken, flawed or (as many have pointed out) totally useless and of little value to the consumer.

But AJAC writers are able to get together and have a weekend playing with new cars and yucking it up.  So I guess as long as it works for them, that's all that matters, right?

1. I'm not an AJAC writer.
2. Show me one single award anywhere that judges anything other than things released in that year.
3. Jamie Foxx won the Best Actor award in 2004, was the award invalid because Sean Penn,    
Dustin Hoffman, Geoffrey Rush, Tom Hanks,  and Russell Crowe aren't dead yet?

[OliverD]

I like Car and Driver's methodology for inviting entrants to its 10 Best awards: A car that made the list the previous year is invited back regardless of whether it has changed or not. All other entrants must be new or revised models.

[mixmanmash]

Great!
Mazda wins again....

And yet can't make a dent in the US market (and here too).
Whats wrong and how can they change that.

They are obviously doing something wrong.

Their cars often win because they are often the most engaging to drive.  99% of the people could care less about that.

What are they doing wrong?

You're the Mazda slappy...you tell me.   

For awhile, their MPG wasn't as good as the competition.  And the horrid smiley face styling.  Maybe they forever lost customers due to that?  Did the Ford alliance leave a bad taste in people's mouths?

Beats me....

FWIW...they don't currently have a car that interests me in the least.

Fack if I know. I think it may have been all those things that you mentioned.

I think they are doing it right. Just everyone who is a potential buyer is thinking it wrong.
They should all want a manual, sporty fun driving hatchback/CUV with good fuel efficiency, styling.

What vehicle that Mazda competitor makes that interests you currently? And what of it is different from Mazda?

I suppose everyone has their bias and may dislike certain brands due to past experiences.
If the cars badges were removed on Mazda would people be able to tell the difference from another Japanese make?

I think it may also be advertising.
If based on TV advertisements you think Toyota/Honda (Lexus/Acura) makes the most sportiest, heart-pounding, fastest, soul-inducing vehicles in the world.
Good advertising but IMO a little disingenuous of what they really are.

Which is weird, because in any segment, Mazda has a very competitive player. I really love the Mazda 5 van thing, the 3 is a blast to drive and the 6 is gorgeous......maybe they havent got their name out there enough. Or they need a halo car to attract people in, like the RX7, I loved that car and still lust after it 

FD3S = Best Mazda ever.  Like I've said before, I'd love to own 2 - one with the rotary, the other with a LS3 twin turbo swap.

[rrocket]

1. I'm not an AJAC writer.
2. Show me one single award anywhere that judges anything other than things released in that year.
3. Edited.

1) I could care less
2) Car & Driver (off the top of my head. Automobile's All Stars is another.  Someone else has the Ten Best..for the best car in every class.  There are many such awards.)
3) Edited (Oliver beat me to it! DOH!)

[CanuckS2K]

I think if you don't know that "best new" means "the best thing released this year" then you might not get any value out of any other information anyway.
Nobody gets butthurt when the Academy Awards only judge films released in that year do they?
"The Hurt Locker wins best film" <<<< "Nooooo!!! Days of Thunder is better!!!" 

Save your snark for a comment that really warrants it, Jacob.  Your movie analogy is inappropriate here.  There's a very good, logical argument to be made that "best new car" can - and SHOULD - be interpreted as the best car that you can buy that is brand new - i.e., any "new" car (no km on it) from any dealership.  Go ask a Toyota dealer if they have any "new cars" for sale - they will list their entire model lineup.  Even though only a fraction of them are "newly designed/redesigned models" (and thus eligible for AJAC testing).  To the average consumer's eye, they are all "new cars".

Yes, it's semantics - but for a lot of people out there, "best new" does NOT mean the best "re-designed or refreshed".  Hence the confusion, and the frustration.  The AJAC testing protocol is great, but the name can easily - and perhaps purposefully - be misinterpreted by the average consumer.

Just because it's new, doesn't make it the class leader, and because of that it isn't necessarily worthy of an award.  Just because it's "new" shouldn't be the only consideration for award.

  For example, next year there will be no new Mazda6 or Mazda3, yet those cars will still likely be the class leaders.  A vastly inferior car could be released in either class, yet because it's "new" it gets an award.  In that case, these awards offer little to the consumer....but hey the AJAC writers get to go on a junket so I guess that's all that matters....consumer be damned.

^ This!

Handing out an award to a car that isn't necessarily best in class seems a little pointless to me.  IMHO, it would be much more useful to the consumer if it included all current MY year vehicles, not just new restyled models.  Again, seems pointless to me. 

[OliverD]

FWIW, I don't think there's anything wrong with picking the best NEW cars each year. It's not as if this specific award is the only tool a consumer has at their disposal when researching a new car purchase.

It would be interesting to see what Car and Driver's 10 Best list would look like if previous year winners were not automatically eligible.

[mixmanmash]

1. I'm not an AJAC writer.
2. Show me one single award anywhere that judges anything other than things released in that year.
3. Edited.

1) I could care less
2) Car & Driver (off the top of my head)
3) Edited (Oliver beat me to it! DOH!)

To add to #2 - Motor Trend (i.e. Motor Trend truck of the year for 2013 & 2014 is the RAM 1500).

[OliverD]

1. I'm not an AJAC writer.
2. Show me one single award anywhere that judges anything other than things released in that year.
3. Edited.

1) I could care less
2) Car & Driver (off the top of my head)
3) Edited (Oliver beat me to it! DOH!)

To add to #2 - Motor Trend (i.e. Motor Trend truck of the year for 2013 & 2014 is the RAM 1500).

Motor Trend only considered the Ram because they added the diesel engine option.

Edit: I called it a Dodge, still haven't broken that habit.

[JacobBlack]

1) I could care less
2) Car & Driver (off the top of my head. Automobile's All Stars is another.  There are many.)
3) Edited (Oliver beat me to it! DOH!)

Your consistent mouthing off about AJAC junkets and the like would suggest otherwise.
Again, if the title was "Best car", your argument would be valid, the entire reason the word "New" is in the title, is so that's it's not misleading...
Of course, some people like to mislead themselves just for the sake of their own bitter argument.... (that was snark).

[mixmanmash]

1. I'm not an AJAC writer.
2. Show me one single award anywhere that judges anything other than things released in that year.
3. Edited.

1) I could care less
2) Car & Driver (off the top of my head)
3) Edited (Oliver beat me to it! DOH!)

To add to #2 - Motor Trend (i.e. Motor Trend truck of the year for 2013 & 2014 is the RAM 1500).

Motor Trend only considered the Dodge because they added the diesel engine option.

Thanks for the correction.  That's probably the only reason.

[JacobBlack]

FWIW, I don't think there's anything wrong with picking the best NEW cars each year. It's not as if this specific award is the only tool a consumer has at their disposal when researching a new car purchase.

It would be interesting to see what Car and Driver's 10 Best list would look like if previous year winners were not automatically eligible.

 

[Snowman]

I like Car and Driver's methodology for inviting entrants to its 10 Best awards: A car that made the list the previous year is invited back regardless of whether it has changed or not. All other entrants must be new or revised models.

  The best format IMO! earn your way on and work hard to stay on it.

[Fobroader]

I like Car and Driver's methodology for inviting entrants to its 10 Best awards: A car that made the list the previous year is invited back regardless of whether it has changed or not. All other entrants must be new or revised models.

  The best format IMO! earn your way on and work hard to stay on it.

This. Thats truly how the whatever of the year should be won, can you take out last years winner.

[Black Hatch]

1. I'm not an AJAC writer.
2. Show me one single award anywhere that judges anything other than things released in that year.
3. Edited.

1) I could care less
2) Car & Driver (off the top of my head)
3) Edited (Oliver beat me to it! DOH!)

To add to #2 - Motor Trend (i.e. Motor Trend truck of the year for 2013 & 2014 is the RAM 1500).

Motor Trend only considered the Ram because they added the diesel engine option.

Edit: I called it a Dodge, still haven't broken that habit.

And the 2015 AJAC car over $30k will be the Mazda6 again. Diesel this time... maybe.

If you look back at at 2004 and 2005, the Mazda6 sedan won one year and the mazda6 hatchback and wagon won the year next.

What rrocket wants is pretty much logistical nightmare if he wants to include all new vehicles for testing.

AJAC is just doing what most other competition do and vote for a new introduced model.

Car and Driver is intriguing though keeping a previous winner in the competition.
Although I think it's a conspiracy that the Accord has won that many times IMO.

[SaskSpecV]

I like Car and Driver's methodology for inviting entrants to its 10 Best awards: A car that made the list the previous year is invited back regardless of whether it has changed or not. All other entrants must be new or revised models.

  The best format IMO! earn your way on and work hard to stay on it.

This. Thats truly how the whatever of the year should be won, can you take out last years winner.

   Plus, C&D gives the awards to whatever classes of vehicles they want (no pre-determined "we've got to give some minivan an award" category) - so if the 10 best vehicles are all sports cars, so be it.  Of course, it helps at C&D to have Honda's and BMW's cheques cashed...

But looking at the list this year, it's hard to argue that they were out to lunch.  Everyone will argue about a few specific cars included/excluded, but the overall list is solid.  Fiesta ST beats out Focus ST? OK, explanation given.  Mustang, Miata, and BRZ dropped off the list? Well, they are still great cars - but this year's new 10-best vehicles simply bested them (Mazda6, 3, Caddy CTS, etc.)

I also like that C&D identifies which specific trims should make the list - i.e., Mustang Boss and GT last year, but not Shelby or V6.

[Sir Osis of Liver]

I think a format like C&D would be a logistical nightmare for the number of testers involved with AJAC. I'm not convinced it's better either. The Accord pretty much has tenure regardless of what else is out there.

I had no difficulty in understanding that this was for new models or heavily revised models only.

Some of this issue is manufacturers not putting particular vehicles in the most relevant category.

These things are interesting but not particularly influential when I shop. 

[rrocket]

Your consistent mouthing off about AJAC junkets and the like would suggest otherwise.

Don't flatter yourself.  You misunderstood.  I could care less what organizations YOU personally are part of.  I don't think it pertains to the argument.  Their awards have little merit whether or not you're a member.