Topic: AJAC TestFest Category Winners Announced, Mazda Pulls Off Hat Trick

[Fobroader]

We are not debating the vote counting and accounting methods. It's how the cars are compared to each other and the cross contamination of segments and model packages that muds up the water.

 

[MR2Pritch]

As co-chair of this program, I genuinely would like to know exactly what you mean. Can you give me an example.

[Fobroader]

Price, segment, options.....try to keep it the same. Just so you dont have a car cost $10-20K more than the cheapest car in the test section and then it loses the challenge because of cost.

[rrocket]

Plus the "as tested" price as opposed to MSRP.  For example, the Q50 Hybrid MSRP is ~$47K.  Clearly it's an Under $50K car.  But if the manufacturer sends you one with even a single big ticket option...now it's a $50K+ car category....even though it's the SAME car...(ie driving dynamics, styling, braking, quality, etc)

I think that part is silly for starters....

And the category names need fixing.  "Family Car"?  Isn't a Camry a Family Car?  I'd think a Camry/Fusion/Accord is more of a Family Car in Canada than a Soul, 500L etc..

[Frontier1]

Every year we have this discussion

[rrocket]

Every year we have this discussion

We sure do!!  Because AJAC testing is a joke.  FFS...even other car websites make fun of the AJAC testing/categories.

[Fobroader]

Every year we have this discussion

And there should be a discussion as the test is obviously flawed, in many peoples minds, whats wrong with some critique. No one is saying get rid of it, just needs changed.

[Frontier1]

Every year we have this discussion

We sure do!!  Because AJAC testing is a joke.  FFS...even other car websites make fun of the AJAC testing/categories.

Lol...deep breath...I agree, but one year we have only one small SUV, what do we do? another year we have 3 that's much better and it goes on and on for all categories.  Funnier is then the mfg has bragging rights, AJAC pick sign on the roof of the car in the showroom...wow

[PJ]

Plus the "as tested" price as opposed to MSRP.  For example, the Q50 Hybrid MSRP is ~$47K.  Clearly it's an Under $50K car.  But if the manufacturer sends you one with even a single big ticket option...now it's a $50K+ car category....even though it's the SAME car...(ie driving dynamics, styling, braking, quality, etc)

I think that part is silly for starters....

And the category names need fixing.  "Family Car"?  Isn't a Camry a Family Car?  I'd think a Camry/Fusion/Accord is more of a Family Car in Canada than a Soul, 500L etc..

I disagree.  Wagons make much better family cars then sedans. 

[rrocket]

Plus the "as tested" price as opposed to MSRP.  For example, the Q50 Hybrid MSRP is ~$47K.  Clearly it's an Under $50K car.  But if the manufacturer sends you one with even a single big ticket option...now it's a $50K+ car category....even though it's the SAME car...(ie driving dynamics, styling, braking, quality, etc)

I think that part is silly for starters....

And the category names need fixing.  "Family Car"?  Isn't a Camry a Family Car?  I'd think a Camry/Fusion/Accord is more of a Family Car in Canada than a Soul, 500L etc..

I disagree.  Wagons make much better family cars then sedans.

Maybe for your family.  Not mine.  Or anyone I know (except for TurboBob). I know very few people that require a wagon.  Sales numbers back this up...as I'm sure most people buying Accords/Camrys/Fusions have families.

[PJ]

Plus the "as tested" price as opposed to MSRP.  For example, the Q50 Hybrid MSRP is ~$47K.  Clearly it's an Under $50K car.  But if the manufacturer sends you one with even a single big ticket option...now it's a $50K+ car category....even though it's the SAME car...(ie driving dynamics, styling, braking, quality, etc)

I think that part is silly for starters....

And the category names need fixing.  "Family Car"?  Isn't a Camry a Family Car?  I'd think a Camry/Fusion/Accord is more of a Family Car in Canada than a Soul, 500L etc..

I disagree.  Wagons make much better family cars then sedans.

Maybe for your family.  Not mine.  Or anyone I know (except for TurboBob). I know very few people that require a wagon.  Sales numbers back this up...as I'm sure most people buying Accords/Camrys/Fusions have families.

Nope.  Families buy CUVS in great numbers these day not to mention SUVS, hatchbacks and minivans , all wagon variations.

Sedans are just not practical enough for families anymore. It's a car of the past. 

[Fobroader]

Plus the "as tested" price as opposed to MSRP.  For example, the Q50 Hybrid MSRP is ~$47K.  Clearly it's an Under $50K car.  But if the manufacturer sends you one with even a single big ticket option...now it's a $50K+ car category....even though it's the SAME car...(ie driving dynamics, styling, braking, quality, etc)

I think that part is silly for starters....

And the category names need fixing.  "Family Car"?  Isn't a Camry a Family Car?  I'd think a Camry/Fusion/Accord is more of a Family Car in Canada than a Soul, 500L etc..

I disagree.  Wagons make much better family cars then sedans.

Maybe for your family.  Not mine.  Or anyone I know (except for TurboBob). I know very few people that require a wagon.  Sales numbers back this up...as I'm sure most people buying Accords/Camrys/Fusions have families.

Nope.  Families buy CUVS in great numbers these day not to mention SUVS, hatchbacks and minivans , all wagon variations.

Sedans are just not practical enough for families anymore. It's a car of the past.

WHOA WHOA WHOA....I think the M3 sedan, M5, E63, RS6, CTS-V, G8 might have something to say about your whole "sedans are cars of the past" theory.

[rrocket]

Plus the "as tested" price as opposed to MSRP.  For example, the Q50 Hybrid MSRP is ~$47K.  Clearly it's an Under $50K car.  But if the manufacturer sends you one with even a single big ticket option...now it's a $50K+ car category....even though it's the SAME car...(ie driving dynamics, styling, braking, quality, etc)

I think that part is silly for starters....

And the category names need fixing.  "Family Car"?  Isn't a Camry a Family Car?  I'd think a Camry/Fusion/Accord is more of a Family Car in Canada than a Soul, 500L etc..

I disagree.  Wagons make much better family cars then sedans.

Maybe for your family.  Not mine.  Or anyone I know (except for TurboBob). I know very few people that require a wagon.  Sales numbers back this up...as I'm sure most people buying Accords/Camrys/Fusions have families.

Nope.  Families buy CUVS in great numbers these day not to mention SUVS, hatchbacks and minivans , all wagon variations.

Sedans are just not practical enough for families anymore. It's a car of the past.

Of the top 20 best selling cars in the USA currently, 10 of them are sedans (11 if you count the Focus..but it comes in hatch too), 5 are CUV/SUV and 4 are pickups.

Enough said.

[Black Hatch]

Great!
Mazda wins again....

And yet can't make a dent in the US market (and here too).
Whats wrong and how can they change that.

[rrocket]

Great!
Mazda wins again....

And yet can't make a dent in the US market (and here too).
Whats wrong and how can they change that.

They are obviously doing something wrong.

Their cars often win because they are often the most engaging to drive.  99% of the people could care less about that.

[Black Hatch]

Plus the "as tested" price as opposed to MSRP.  For example, the Q50 Hybrid MSRP is ~$47K.  Clearly it's an Under $50K car.  But if the manufacturer sends you one with even a single big ticket option...now it's a $50K+ car category....even though it's the SAME car...(ie driving dynamics, styling, braking, quality, etc)

I think that part is silly for starters....

And the category names need fixing.  "Family Car"?  Isn't a Camry a Family Car?  I'd think a Camry/Fusion/Accord is more of a Family Car in Canada than a Soul, 500L etc..

I disagree.  Wagons make much better family cars then sedans.

Maybe for your family.  Not mine.  Or anyone I know (except for TurboBob). I know very few people that require a wagon.  Sales numbers back this up...as I'm sure most people buying Accords/Camrys/Fusions have families.

Nope.  Families buy CUVS in great numbers these day not to mention SUVS, hatchbacks and minivans , all wagon variations.

Sedans are just not practical enough for families anymore. It's a car of the past.

Of the top 20 best selling cars in the USA currently, 10 of them are sedans (11 if you count the Focus..but it comes in hatch too), 5 are CUV/SUV and 4 are pickups.

Enough said.

Yeah, Amercians gotta get it into their heads to become more European with hatches.
Maybe there is too much stigma associated with hatches that screams cheap. I dunno.

And CUVs are essentially raised hatchbacks.

[Black Hatch]

Great!
Mazda wins again....

And yet can't make a dent in the US market (and here too).
Whats wrong and how can they change that.

They are obviously doing something wrong.

Their cars often win because they are often the most engaging to drive.  99% of the people could care less about that.

What are they doing wrong?

[rrocket]

Great!
Mazda wins again....

And yet can't make a dent in the US market (and here too).
Whats wrong and how can they change that.

They are obviously doing something wrong.

Their cars often win because they are often the most engaging to drive.  99% of the people could care less about that.

What are they doing wrong?

You're the Mazda slappy...you tell me.   

For awhile, their MPG wasn't as good as the competition.  And the horrid smiley face styling.  Maybe they forever lost customers due to that?  Did the Ford alliance leave a bad taste in people's mouths?

Beats me....

FWIW...they don't currently have a car that interests me in the least.

[Fobroader]

Great!
Mazda wins again....

And yet can't make a dent in the US market (and here too).
Whats wrong and how can they change that.

They are obviously doing something wrong.

Their cars often win because they are often the most engaging to drive.  99% of the people could care less about that.

What are they doing wrong?

You're the Mazda slappy...you tell me.   

For awhile, their MPG wasn't as good as the competition.  And the horrid smiley face styling.  Maybe they forever lost customers due to that?  Did the Ford alliance leave a bad taste in people's mouths?

Beats me....

FWIW...they don't currently have a car that interests me in the least.

I hate to be that guy....what about people seeing and hearing about rust....I liked the Miata, 3,5 and 6 were competitive, their SUVs were ok, dont know.

[rrocket]

^^I like what the Miata is about...its mission....but I hate the looks.