Author Topic: General automotive design thread  (Read 5444 times)

Offline mmret

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2013, 09:39:06 pm »
The Chinese car market demands tacky, blingy cars for people with poor taste. They want to show off so chrome and "sparkly stuff" is important.....Ive heard this from several reports about their car industry.

And I have been there many times in recent years. There are imbeciles with ridiculous cars, of course, but the vast majority of the show off cars are the same restrained German stuff we get here. A4/A6, 5 series, E-Class etc. And the odd Toyota Crown.

Then you have Lambo / Ferrari drivers of course but its no more bling than your average off the shelf Lambo / Ferrari. Because its the same car.

Just because you read it, doesn't make it true.

Yes, but the question is also whether the Germans would sell even more in China if their designs were less "restrained."  It certainly seems to me that both BMW and especially Mercedes (not so much Audi) are already moving towards more "blingy" design. How much (if any) of that is due to Chinese tastes and influence, I don't know.

I've only been to China once, and remember a conversation with our native tour guide for the day. She was curious about life in Canada, and seemed interested in cars (particularly Rolls Royce). But it was one question in particular that had me speechless for a second: she asked "If you had a Rolls Royce in your driveway, would your neighbours be envious?"

It's funny, because the first thing that I thought was "No, my neighbours would probably think I was a douchebag, but I'd be too embarrassed to have it parked in my driveway in the first place: it's simply too ostentatious."  :)

Anyway, I'm obviously no expert on Chinese culture, but I think it's fair to say that it's a little different from ours. (Or maybe it's not the culture so much as all the new wealth. I'm sure all the nouveau riche Russian oligarchs love their bling, too.) But since China is becoming such a huge market, I can't see how Chinese tastes aren't going to have an influence.

IMHO the movement of the Germans towards more "extroverted" designs is really the result of three dynamics at work, all of which are focused on the North American (possibly Western Europe also) market:

1. An aggressive move by Audi to increase sales numbers, part of an aggressive move by VWAG to usurp GM/Toyota. Piech is nothing if not ambitious. It was Audi that began utilizing more aggressive light structures, LED strips, big giant grille, etc. Remember the R8 launch? Then adding stuff like the A5 and A7 which are "extrovert" versions of the A4/A6. And it has undoubtedly worked - sales are way up.

2. Mercedes left frustrated with the "old man" image and their #3 position in the three horse German sales race. The W203 and W211 cars were not particularly aggressive looking. People found them boring (though I will say I am a particular fan of that generation of MB styling). So they basically took a page out of Audi's book, but with a several year delay. You can see this somewhat in the W204 / W212, and much moreso in the W218 CLS and R231 SL. Also, the W212 facelift - changing the default upright hood ornament to the "big star" grille of the coupes and SUVs for the US market is a clear shift from "old man car" to "young money".

3. At the same time, there has been an underlying demographic shift. Boomers and Gen Y (especially early-mid Gen Y) are now in control of the vast majority of wealth in the Western world. Even more importantly, they have essentially never known "bad times" in the way that their parents would have (wars, depressions) - the worst things they would have had to go through would be the stagflationary 70s, maybe the tech bust....by the time 2008 rolled around most of these people were so entrenched it didn't matter too much.

This charmed set of experiences, I believe, has resulted in a generation of people who are exceptionally self confident. They want everything, and largely they have gotten it. The desire to maintain a youthful, sexy image is paramount to their existence. Zoomers. Never too late to switch careers. Sticking to your Diet Pepsi. These people want a cool looking car, the one they couldn't quite afford at age 25 or 30. Preferences have moved away from stoic and stodgy to youthful and sexy as their generation refuses to age.


--
The BMW narrative is a bit messed up by the Bangle era, so I won't get into that.

Anyways, if the German triumverate really believed that bling would sell, they would have just made bling versions of the cars for that market. Manufacturers do this all the time, different light clusters, some trim pieces, etc. The fact that they have not suggests that they don't believe it to be the right choice.

Regarding the Rolls Royce comment. I think that is more an issue of the new-found wealth thing. Much has changed in China in the last 30 years. And while your neighbours might think you are a douchebag, that does not preclude them from also being envious.



IMHO, specific Chinese market tastes are pretty much the following:

1. Does it have status? (BMW Mercedes Audi Porsche Ferrari Lambo etc.)

2. Is there a stretch version so I can get driven around by my chauffeur? (There is an A4 L!)

(of course the above is specific to those with money...not everyone has money, but obviously most people would like more money)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2013, 09:41:24 pm by mmret »
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Offline HeliDriver

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2013, 09:57:36 pm »
^^ I think you are onto something there, especially the Zoomer angle. Probably much closer to the truth than a simple "Blame China!"

(And I LOLed at the thought of being an envied douchebag  :rofl2: )

Offline KD

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2013, 10:00:18 pm »
Not sure what the reasoning was behind the latest Merc SL design, but they goofed up big time IMO!  One of the worst disjointed efforts in Merc history.  I saw a Cadillac XLR today at a local dealer and it is beautiful by comparison and looked good from every angle.  I think it's the first time I've see one up close. 

Offline mmret

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2013, 10:09:25 pm »
Not sure what the reasoning was behind the latest Merc SL design, but they goofed up big time IMO!  One of the worst disjointed efforts in Merc history.  I saw a Cadillac XLR today at a local dealer and it is beautiful by comparison and looked good from every angle.  I think it's the first time I've see one up close.

Much prefer this generation myself.


But the current one "works" in a sort of "HEY GUYS IM HERE NOW" kind of way.

Offline mmret

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2013, 10:18:19 pm »
^^ I think you are onto something there, especially the Zoomer angle. Probably much closer to the truth than a simple "Blame China!"

(And I LOLed at the thought of being an envied douchebag  :rofl2: )

China and increasingly Chinese bashing is a Pavlovian reflex for many.

All that said, I still want a Heico S80.

Full disclosure I am Chinese.

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2013, 10:20:38 pm »
I wonder if more rectilinear designs will make a comeback. We've been doing variations of the jellybean since the aero Fords and Audis first came out in the 1980s.

Designs from the 1900s through the early 30s were mostly straight edge. From the late 1930s to the late 1950s things were pretty rounded. The 1960s until the mid 1980s, were pretty square. It's been jellybeans pretty much ever since.

Someone put forward the notion that car window size was related to a sense of security, not just in the automotive sense, but a general feeling of well being. Window area was large until the early 1930s, then started to shrink right through to the early post war cars. The window size, started to increase though the ebullient 1950s and 1960s. The trend reversed through the late 1960s and 1970s. They increased again in the 1980s and 1990s. As people have noted, windows have been getting narrower for roughly the last 10-12 years.

To shock us out of the doldrums, someone needs to put forward a big windowed, square rigger! ;D
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Offline mmret

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2013, 10:39:26 pm »
Canyonerooooooo

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Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2013, 11:23:40 pm »


 ;D

Offline KD

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #28 on: November 22, 2013, 07:00:04 am »
Not sure what the reasoning was behind the latest Merc SL design, but they goofed up big time IMO!  One of the worst disjointed efforts in Merc history.  I saw a Cadillac XLR today at a local dealer and it is beautiful by comparison and looked good from every angle.  I think it's the first time I've see one up close.

Much prefer this generation myself.



 :iagree:  That may be one of the finest examples of the SL and looks good from any angle.  Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't kick the new one outta my driveway if somebody dropped it off, but if it was my buck 50, I'd be looking elsewhere.
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 07:07:47 am by KarlsDarwin »

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #29 on: November 22, 2013, 09:23:29 am »
Not sure what the reasoning was behind the latest Merc SL design, but they goofed up big time IMO!  One of the worst disjointed efforts in Merc history.  I saw a Cadillac XLR today at a local dealer and it is beautiful by comparison and looked good from every angle.  I think it's the first time I've see one up close.

Much prefer this generation myself.


But the current one "works" in a sort of "HEY GUYS IM HERE NOW" kind of way.

Yup, that's very nice…nice tight skin. I still have to be sold on the new design direction Mercedes has taken…will reserve judgement until the next E-Class.

Offline blotter

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #30 on: November 22, 2013, 05:48:20 pm »
Quote
The Chinese car market demands tacky, blingy cars for people with poor taste. They want to show off so chrome and "sparkly stuff" is important.....Ive heard this from several reports about their car industry.

I think this statement is true is we're talking about the growing middle class in China.
while i'm certainly no expert and have no hands on observations... You can't blame them really.

The growth in China is simply trying to catch up to the American dream of mass consumption.
I think it would be fair to say the desire for tacky, blingy items is due too the desire of "screaming" the everyone "look at me, I've made it!"


Offline Snowman

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General automotive design thread
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2013, 01:25:19 pm »
Found some pics of a portfolio display I had to participate in college. See a pattern :)


Northernridge

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2013, 01:55:20 pm »
Excellent. Good find.   :thumbup:  Drawing pictures of cars was a hoot.

I used to be an airbrush junkie in the early 80s and now my son is into model building and wants one for Christmas.

Offline blotter

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2013, 01:57:13 pm »
awesome find snowman!

I wish I could find some of my old art. 

Northernridge

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2013, 06:24:18 pm »
I see BMW has added some design embellishments to the upcoming M3/M4. I kind of like a bit of personality sprinkled in…less subtle than some earlier versions. Check out the mirror thingies.

Offline Sir Osis of Liver

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Re: General automotive design thread
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2013, 07:13:22 pm »
Separated at birth?